Christians and Christmas

[phkrause]

http://www.adventistworld.org/article/905/resources/english/issue-2010-1012/christians-christmas

[Planey]

Very well-stated by Angel Rodríguez, clear and succinct. And correct.

Thanks for the link, pk.

Graeme

[LynnDel]

I have celebrated Christmas all my life, but recently have been having second thoughts. Many of the same reasons Angel Rodriquez gives for celebrating Christmas could be used as reasons for celebrating Sunday as the Lord's Day. I'm beginning to think it's a mistake, at least for me.

[Nan]

Guess the crucial point is what we mean by celebrate. That could vary from remembering to drunken debauchery, present company excepted of course.

[Gordon1]

I have celebrated Christmas all my life, but recently have been having second thoughts. Many of the same reasons Angel Rodriquez gives for celebrating Christmas could be used as reasons for celebrating Sunday as the Lord's Day. I'm beginning to think it's a mistake, at least for me.

Praise the Lord for that encouraging testimony LD.

[olger]

I have celebrated Christmas all my life, but recently have been having second thoughts. Many of the same reasons Angel Rodriquez gives for celebrating Christmas could be used as reasons for celebrating Sunday as the Lord's Day. I'm beginning to think it's a mistake, at least for me.

Good post, LD.

g

[Kountzer]

I used boldly argue with people about the fact that X mas is a pagan holiday. I've wisely stopped beating my head against that wall. Now I just go with the flow. I never did hate christmas, it's just that I don't like someone feeding me the hoakum that it is celebrated because of the 1st advent.

I yearly look forward to the holiday: good food, good music, good sports, if it is not on the sabbath. Days off from work. What's not to like?

[Restin]

If I knew all the background and personalities behind the car I might buy at the dealers, I probably would never be able to have one.

[Woody]

I used boldly argue with people about the fact that X mas is a pagan holiday. I've wisely stopped beating my head against that wall. Now I just go with the flow. I never did hate christmas, it's just that I don't like someone feeding me the hoakum that it is celebrated because of the 1st advent.

I yearly look forward to the holiday: good food, good music, good sports, if it is not on the sabbath. Days off from work. What's not to like?

Thanks for that testimony Kountzer. Much appreciated Praise God.

[OzarkWoman]

I haven't celebrated Christmas for over 2 decades now, nor Easter or any other Pagan holiday.

[Woody]

I've celebrated the birth of our Lord - since the day I was born. A great time to witness for Jesus.

[OzarkWoman]

I've celebrated the birth of our Lord - since the day I was born. A great time to witness for Jesus.

It is not Jesus' birthday anyway.

[CoAspen]

I've celebrated the birth of our Lord - since the day I was born. A great time to witness for Jesus.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

I've celebrated the birth of our Lord - since the day I was born. A great time to witness for Jesus.

It is not Jesus' birthday anyway.

Never said it was. Should that stop us? Does it bother you?

[Kevin H]

I wish that Elder Rodríguez was clearer on the history of Christmas, he talks about both views, but he (or some editor) has sadly blended them together so that you do not notice that he was speaking about two sets of evidences.

There is the one set of evidence which is what most of us was taught, and which, despite several years of me posting and a post done last Christmas from I believe it was the Review that was posted here, people's comments do not show any understanding of. Why do we want to NOT look at new facts!!!!

People who studies church history at the end of the dark ages, WHO HAD LIMITED RESOURCES came to the conclusion that we got December 25 from the pagans in the fourth centuary after Constaintain made Christianity a legal religion to make it easier for the Pagans to become Christian by making their holiday on December 25 to be the birth of Jesus.

However in recent decades archaeologists have uncovered records that these scholars from centuaries past did not have access to. While we must base our choices on the best evidence we have, we must not hold on to outdated evidence and reject the new discoveries...

I get my information from mostly an article in Bible Review in the Nov-Dec issue for either 2001, 2002 or 2003 (I forgot which one of those three years) Biblical Archaeology Review from abut 2 years ago, and last year there was a link on one of the threads from this forum to an article in I believe it was the Review or Ministry, back in December.

It has been discovered that:

1. Christians started to view December 25 as the birth of Jesus in the third centuary, 100 years before Constantine, at a time when Christians were hiding in the catacombes and wanted NOTHING to do with paganism.

2. One hundred years prior to this, in the second centuary, the church celebrated the feast of the annunciation, which was based on was based on the intertestamental believe that Isaac was conseved on Passover and that Abraham took him to Mt. Moriah on Passover. The Church wanted to say that Isaac was a type of Jesus, that like Isaac, Jesus was annunced on Passover and died our sacrificial death on passover.

3. For several years they just celebrated the feast of the annunciation on when ever Passover fell. One year when in the western churches Passover fell on March 25 the church changed callenders and started to celebrate the feast every March 25 instead of every passover.

4. There is no evidence that December 25 was popular by pagans until the fourth centuary and while there is not proof, the evidence is starting to indicate that the pagans got December 25 from the Christians rather than the Christians getting December 25 from the pagans.

[Kevin H]

In short, while for a couple hundred years we thought that we got December 25 from the Pagans in the fourth centuary, New evidence shows that we got it from Judaism's traditions about Isaac which was applied to Jesus in the second centuary, and that December 25 was written about and understood by Christians as the birth of Jesus 100 years earlier than the history you have in mind.