Are We Redeemed?

[Robert]

Robert, I am assured by faith He has given me His righteousness and am covered by His Blood. It is all by His Merits applied to me, I can boast nothing.

He has given you His imputed righteousness:

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law (i.e., apart from what He does in you) is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

He has given you His imputed righteousness:

"Say to the Israelites, Truly you shall keep My Sabbaths, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you [set you apart for Myself]."Exodus 31:13 AMP

However since God allows us the opportunity to keep the door shut when He knocks, we can by our choices refuse the opportunity to be set apart for His purposes.

"“Look! I stand at the door and knock. If you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in, and we will share a meal together as friends."Revelation 3:20 NLT

I think the main course served at that meal, is the Bread of Life. And of course this includes the right to disengage.

"

And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one go to them from the dead, they will repent.

And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, if one rise from the dead."Luke 16:30-31 ASV

God blesses!

[Woody]

Quote:

cheddar proposed earlier the possibility that all men were saved by Christ's sacrifice (at least that's what I think he proposed). I'm not there, because I don't think Jesus is going to drag people into the Kingdom kicking and screaming that they don't want to be there.

Interesting thoughts JoeMo.

My take is that what Cheddar said is true regarding Christ's sacrifice for ALL peoples. All ARE saved if they want it. Taking Jesus as your Saviour is simple. Just say - "Jesus I want you as my Saviour." (And sincerely mean it)

[Gibs]

The proof of the Sincerity "will be in the pudding". Make sure of the pudding!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world

[cheddar]

I’m not the one who said all men were saved at the cross, the apostle Paul said it. And every time this truth is talked about you need to put a disclaimer at the bottom which says – all men were saved at the cross but not all men will be in heaven – The gift is exceedingly abundant but wasted on those who throw it away. This is why Esau is a good example of the lost. He valued a bowl of soup more than his birthright (the birthright symbolizing salvation). Those who realize the inestimable value of the gift of salvation will place it above all things and those who don’t will do nothing but talk about man’s part in the plan of salvation.

[JoeMo]

Pudding ... Yum!

Woody,

I totally agree that "All ARE saved if they want it. Taking Jesus as your Saviour is simple. Just say - "Jesus I want you as my Saviour." (And sincerely mean it)"

I am open to taking it even further. It is conceivable that there are those who have never heard the name of Jesus who believe in and follow a loving, personal unnamed God who has reavealed Himself to them through dreams or nature. It is when they get to heaven that they will realize that this God is Jesus.

Just a thought. I have heard testimonies of Muslims and Hindus who claim they have met Jesus in their dreams; but didn't know who He was until they met a Christian missionary. Upon hearing the missionary's words, they immediately gave their hearts to Jesus, because they already knew Him; they just didn't know His Name.

[Gibs]

We don't keep the law to be saved, we keep the law from being saved. It stems from His Love which is now in our hearts.

It' the same principle of works is because of faith.

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

If we do truly love God we do keep His Commandments, love does it. He is Love, so you see, it is He in us as Paul states, "Christ in you the hope of Glory".

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Gibs - have you ever heard of the term 'baby Christian' or do you believe in that? Do you believe there is growth in the Christian experience? Or does one just immediately become a perfect overcomer?

I am a saved Seventh day Adventist Christian. But in the eyes of God - I remain a baby Christian because I continue to live in sin. I continue to sin and HE continues to save - yes even after over a half century of the pattern.

That's just the way it is in the Christian life. Praise God He loves us sinners.

[Gibs]

There is no standing still Woody, we are either gaining or falling back. We are to overcome each point His Spirit presses upon us and then He brings another and we keep climbing higher and higher. We gain strength with each one we overcome and the accomplishment is a grand reward and so we march on to greater with Him at the helm and anxious for the next victory. A challenge to beat the devil at his game and Christ with His strong right arm is our defense, Satan sees THAT MUSCLE and knows he is defeated.

It is a no, no for sure to try it alone as one will be defeated and each defeat weakens us. So our only way is by His dwelling within. Getting a good grip on His Hand, His Word and not letting go will win those hardest first few and then we have become stronger by having a greater faith in Him keeping us as we have found and now know the way of victory. Then to be diligent to stay quickened by abiding in Him continually in a constant walk with Him night and day through all things as we do our chores.

Truly He is our ABIDING best friend. He loves us and we love Him with all our hearts and soul and we love to do His Will for us. We are now victorious because of Him within.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[LifeHiscost]

Pudding ... Yum!

I have heard testimonies of Muslims and Hindus who claim they have met Jesus in their dreams; but didn't know who He was until they met a Christian missionary. Upon hearing the missionary's words, they immediately gave their hearts to Jesus, because they already knew Him; they just didn't know His Name.

I'm not sure of the verbatim counsel but this very principle is found in the SoP which corroborates the Word.

"Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

Matthew 25:40 KJV

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

We don't keep the law to be saved, we keep the law from being saved.

Did you mean,"...as a result of having been saved"?

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God..." Ephesians 2:8 NKJV

God blesses!

[JoeMo]

Hey Gibs,

Like LHC, I didn't quite understand the "we keep the law from being saved" part of your post.

I also didn't quite understand the part about us defeating the devil. I thought the devil was already defeated at the death of Christ. Didn't Jesus say "it is finished"? Didn't His ascention indicate the Father's approval of His sacrifice?

Isn't the statement by Peter that the devil knows he has but a short time an indication that satan has already lost the war? Every time we reject satan's accusations against us, we reinforce our victory over him through the grace of Jesus. It's not us who should be shaking in our boots - it should be satan and his minions.

I'd like to think that satan peas himself a little bit every time we call on the Name of the Lord for forgiveness, mercy, and grace.

I agree with you that we should be moving forward and bearing fruit. But, if we checked its DNA, wouldn't an apple tree still an apple tree in the winter or during a drought when it is not producing fruit? If we checked the DNA of an ugly monarch butterfly catepillar, wouldn't it be identical to the DNA of the beautiful finished product - a butterfly? So it is with us. Just because we are in a drought or a winter season; or we appear to ourselves to be an ugly catepillar doesn't mean we have lost our "saint" DNA, given to us by God's grace. God always sees the finished product. With the proper pruning by the Lord and a process of divine metamorphosis, those who cooperate with Him will, over time, produce fruit and become beautiful "butterfly" saints.

Praise God for His infinite love and mercy to all His people!

JoeMo

[Gibs]

I might have stated it "we keep the law after being saved" as then the love of God has grown in our hearts to the place to the place we not only want to please Him but we are truly hurt if we slipped and really set the face as flint then to not slip again.

Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will be his building in us our soul temple as we are slow to come apart from the world and all our perverted ways we have come up in that have become our way and now our way is being changed into His saving way.

We become a new creature in Him that He can safely take into His Kingdom. We are crushing sin in us by falling on HIM and being crushed of our old way, man.

He is doing a cleanup job on us!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Gibs,

I like that answer. Would you then agree that overcoming is a process rather than a sudden event?

"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6)

I could conclude from this verse that Jesus' work in us continues until we are "changed in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye".

Be Blessed,

JoeMo

[Woody]

Quote:

I could conclude from this verse that Jesus' work in us continues until we are "changed in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye".

Exactly . Until then - we are what scriptures call 'corrupt'. We are sinfully bankrupt. In need of a saviour.

'Until then .... with joy I'll carry on'. 'Until the day ... my eyes behold that city'. 'Until the day --- God calls me home'.

[JoeMo]

Oh that will be glory for me! When by His grace we can look on His face; that will be gloryyyyyy ... be glory for me!

Right on, Woody!

[Gibs]

The point is JoeMo, Jesus has defeated Satan but we all have not yet. He can be a defeated foe to you when Christ is within and you are being victorious over him.

It is proven when we are still committing sin he still has the upper hand and is not defeated yet in you.

Really if Christ is dwelling in you, what could be your excuse to be continuing in sin.

What it is you have not made Christ the total Master in you yet if you are continuing in it.

Your sins must be dropped as fast as He reveals to you one you are doing. It is dangerous to go on continuing as you cannot have two Masters. You will soon fall to one or the other.

Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

My problem is that I am not perfect 24/7, Gibs. It's not like I am in rebellion against God; usually I don't realize that I've fallen short of the mark until after the fact. I'm not trying to make excuses; I'm just stating an honest fact. I am a sinner; and I lean on the grace of Jesus Christ for my salvation. He is my Hope and my Savior!

I eagerly await the day when this corruptible, broken, and imperfect body will become incorruptible, whole, and sinless.

Blessings,

JoeMo

[Robert]

We don't keep the law to be saved, we keep the law from being saved.

But if we aren't keeping the law? Let me guess, we aren't saved!

Still preaching legalism....

[Robert]

The point is JoeMo, Jesus has defeated Satan but we all have not yet.

No, I was "in Christ" when Jesus defeated my nature. And I was "in Christ" when my humanity died the 2nd death. Read Paul and learn the gospel:

Romans 6:6/Roman 7:4/2 Cor 5:14

[Gibs]

Jesus didn't defeat your nature, He took it and overcame in your behalf and by applying His Merits you too can overcome as He did.

Your humanity has not died once yet and are yet subject to the second death unless remaining faithful. Note who is not hurt of the second death.

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

The second death takes more than the humanity, it takes the spirit and soul to never be no more.

Just like an old Christian song goes, "you're not home yet!"

Then note,

Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Just a little nurture here from EGW,

"The example of Christ shows us that our only hope of victory is in continual resistance of Satan's attacks. He who triumphed over the adversary of souls in the conflict of temptations understands Satan's power over the race, and has conquered him in our behalf. As an overcomer, He has given us the advantage of His victory, that in our efforts to resist the temptations of Satan we may unite our weakness to His strength, our worthlessness to His merits. And sustained by His enduring might under the strength of temptation, we may resist in His all-powerful name, and overcome as He overcame.".-- The Signs of the Times, March 4, 1880. {MYP 50.1}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

we may resist in His all-powerful name, and overcome as He overcame

I DO overcome as He overcame.

He relied upon His Father - just as I do.

I do not overcome to the same extent as He did and no one will.

But in the end - the Father will accept the sacrifice of Jesus on my behalf and thus my salvation is secured.

[Gibs]

I do think though as we increase our dedication to please Him grows much stronger and our walk closer and closer. Not many I'm sure attain in a moment.

We are His Branches and we certainly will grow up more fully from such a rich source.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[LifeHiscost]

Gibs,

I like that answer. Would you then agree that overcoming is a process rather than a sudden event?

"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6)

I could conclude from this verse that Jesus' work in us continues until we are "changed in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye".

Be Blessed,

JoeMo

BINGO!!!!

God blesses!

[Robert]

Jesus didn't defeat your nature, He took it and overcame in your behalf and by applying His Merits you too can overcome as He did.

Your gospel is the same as the Judaizers. What you have is the cart before the horse. Go to Romans 8:1-4

Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Believers have accepted their "position in Christ". What is does that mean? Context, verse 2:

For the law of the Spirit of life (where?) in Christ Jesus has set you (the believer) free from the law of sin and of death.

How?

3 For what the Law could not do (it couldn't produce righteousness in sinful men), weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and on account of sin, He condemned sin in the flesh

Okay, notice that there's no condemnation because of your position in Christ accepted by faith. Why? Because "in Christ" your humanity was freed from "the law of sin" (the sin nature) and "in Christ" you died the curse of the law, the 2nd death. (See also Rom 6:6/Rom 7:4)

That's why there's no condemnation. Only as you completely rest in His finished and perfect work (of which the Sabbath is a sign) can you begin to experience verse 4:

4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.