Stan Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 interesting. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted August 16, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 16, 2012 Didn't vote, 'cos there wasn't an option for 'really don't care about either'. I mean, I *do* care about women's ordination, as a matter of natural justice, but I no longer care what the SDA church does about it. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Jeannieb43 Posted August 16, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 16, 2012 Didn't vote, 'cos there wasn't an option for 'really don't care about either'. I mean, I *do* care about women's ordination, as a matter of natural justice, but I no longer care what the SDA church does about it. I'm inclined to agree with Bravus. I guess if I were a theology graduate looking for a position somewhere in the church organization these days, I might be concerned. But I've known so many very strong women ministers in the SDA church during my nearly 80 years of life that to me the actual title "ordination" doesn't make a whole lot of difference. If anybody knew Miss Mary Walsh, back in the '60s and '70s and later, you would know what I mean. She could preach a sermon stronger than the strongest male preacher. She knew the Bible backwards and forwards. And she could give a home Bible study and lead out in prayer meeting better than most preachers. To me, she was the epitome of a strong woman preacher. Yet she never aspired to the title of "ordained." Because she didn't need it. However, now that (I understand) there is a pay differential for those who are ordained, I believe it is an equal rights issue. So I'm in favor of women's ordination [for those who are trained and have a calling to ministry]. Quote Jeannie<br /><br /><br />...Change is inevitable; growth is optional.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted August 16, 2012 Administrators Share Posted August 16, 2012 But I've known so many very strong women ministers in the SDA church during my nearly 80 years of life that to me the actual title "ordination" doesn't make a whole lot of difference.If anybody knew Miss Mary Walsh, back in the '60s and '70s and later, you would know what I mean. She could preach a sermon stronger than the strongest male preacher. She knew the Bible backwards and forwards. And she could give a home Bible study and lead out in prayer meeting better than most preachers. To me, she was the epitome of a strong woman preacher. Yet she never aspired to the title of "ordained." Because she didn't need it. There really wasn't a good choice. I am just tired of having it brought up on every front? It has a very real possibility of dividing our church, is it really worth that? We know the shaking will happen ... I personally don't want to be a part of anything that will hasten that. A house divided against itself cannot stand. I do not believe that it will increase the numbers of members to any great extent. We all have our calling, we all have a mission to do ... it is not all the same. Can we not set aside our personal egos and go about our Father's business? If everyone does everything possible within their sphere of influence they will be so busy that there will be no time to spend so much time and energies on causes. In time it will work all work out the way it should. Why not give it time ... why do we want to rush ahead of God? For all things there is a season Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I guess if I were a theology graduate looking for a position somewhere in the church organization these days, I might be concerned. But I've known so many very strong women ministers in the SDA church during my nearly 80 years of life that to me the actual title "ordination" doesn't make a whole lot of difference. If anybody knew Miss Mary Walsh, back in the '60s and '70s and later, you would know what I mean. She could preach a sermon stronger than the strongest male preacher. She knew the Bible backwards and forwards. And she could give a home Bible study and lead out in prayer meeting better than most preachers. To me, she was the epitome of a strong woman preacher. Yet she never aspired to the title of "ordained." Because she didn't need it. However, now that (I understand) there is a pay differential for those who are ordained, I believe it is an equal rights issue. So I'm in favor of women's ordination [for those who are trained and have a calling to ministry]. Here's the difference,Mary Walsh was not a "minister" in the sense that her calling was to be responsible for a group of believers. She was not an officially trained church employee equipped with a degree from a seminary.She was better equipped with a degree from the school of Jesus Christ. I spent several hours with her on a couple of occasions and if my memory serves me right she was a Bible Worker.You are absolutely right about her putting to shame the local men pastors with her biblically based sermons and her godly,humble demeanor. Not coincidental to the issue is the fact that she was openly opposed to women becoming "pastors".She was against it from the same biblical perspective that proponents claim is unbiblical today.When I asked her about the WO brouhaha that had just surfaced she had some very negative observations concerning those who were pushing it.Both she and HMS Sr. had almost the identical Biblical responses.But then,they weren't PHD's from Andrews,so what did they know about how to properly understand Scripture? My sarcasm aside, I think Mary Walsh represents exactly the type of women's role (ministry)in the church that 100% of WO opponents would fight for.As for the poll, I see no particular worldwide ramifications to the study of spiritual formation (it's just plain Biblically silly)so if I would have voted I would have gone with that as being annoying not the redefinition of church and family leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I didn't vote because, IMO, both are straw men in a church that should be focusing on bringing people to Christ by channeling His infinite love and grace to others. We spend way too much energy and generate way too much negative karma among non-believers on this site by arguing among ourselves about things that really shouldn't matter; as they are not salvational issues. It is OK to discuss such things; but considering it a sufficient issue to exchange personal insults over them? to think that they will initiate the shaking? or to call the church Babylon over it? Please! Jesus told us right before He went to the cross: "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” (John 13:34-35) EGW once said something like "the church, weak and frail as it is, is still the apple of God's eye" (Not an exact quote). Let's start focusing on the "apple" part instead of the "weak and frail" part. If one of the choices in the poll was "the poor witness we project to non-blievers who are on this site to learn of Christ", I would have voted for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 16, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 16, 2012 Here's the difference,Mary Walsh was not a "minister" in the sense that her calling was to be responsible for a group of believers. She was not an officially trained church employee equipped with a degree from a seminary.She was better equipped with a degree from the school of Jesus Christ. .... Not coincidental to the issue is the fact that she was openly opposed to women becoming "pastors".She was against it from the same biblical perspective that proponents claim is unbiblical today..... I think Mary Walsh represents exactly the type of women's role (ministry)in the church that 100% of WO opponents would fight for... Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted August 16, 2012 Members Share Posted August 16, 2012 I wonder what Mother Teresa would say about this issue, were she alive today. And I wonder what her pay scale was? I believe her first concern was for those that needed her rather than, oh my I wish I were ordained and than I could make more money. Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Mother Teresa's pay scale was low; but her retirement benefits will be out of this world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted August 16, 2012 Members Share Posted August 16, 2012 Mother Teresa's pay scale was low; but her retirement benefits will be out of this world! Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted August 16, 2012 Administrators Share Posted August 16, 2012 X2 Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted August 16, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 16, 2012 Of course, the 'sacrifice' and 'people need me' argument applies in exactly the same way to men. It's *not* any sort of argument for maintaining inequality. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Quote: If one of the choices in the poll was "the poor witness we project to non-blievers who are on this site to learn of Christ", I would have voted for that. Of course that's a good attitude to take for anyone whose biases don't agree with those who have been entrusted with this same most important principle below. "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”"John 12:32 NKJV God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 LHC, I don' understand what your quote has to do with anything I said: "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”(John 12:32) This sounds like a message of forgiveness and healing to me. I totally agree with it. It refers to the cure for snakebites when the Israelites were griping about food in Numbers being a symbol of Jesus' sacrifice and grace, doesn't it ? I don't think hurling personal insults at each other and fighting about 'nits' is lifting up Christ. If I'm wrong, tell me how (hopefully, without any personal insults). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Quote: hopefully, without any personal insults Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Quote: I don't think hurling personal insults at each other and fighting about 'nits' is lifting up Christ. If I'm wrong, tell me how (hopefully, without any personal insults). Gibs was lifting up the Word. Jesus said He is the Word. I saw many more insults directed at Gibs for what he was attempting to do. If it wasn't a result of the biases toward the Word he presented, maybe there is a deeper reason for the opposition. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted August 17, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 17, 2012 No Gibs posting in this thread that I can see. (Unless he's changed his name.) Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I second Bravus' comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 So What happens if a female ordained minister moves from Ohio to Kentucky? Just a few miles a way, and she works there for that Conference? ANSWER she is given Commissioned Ministerial Credentials by their Union. AND the sun will continue to rise in the morning.. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I second Bravus' comment. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Quote: Originally Posted By: Jeannieb43 Yet she never aspired to the title of "ordained." Because she didn't need it. Perhaps we could say she didn't need the title as she already was pracicing under that ordination as ordered by God. " Human Work Made Effective by the Spirit, June 23 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? Luke 11:13. "The promise of the gift of the Holy Spirit is not comprehended as it should be; the privileges to be enjoyed through its acceptance are not appreciated as they might be. God desires that His church should lay hold by faith upon His promises, and ask for the power of the Holy Spirit to help them in every place. He assures us that He is more willing to give the Holy Spirit to those that ask Him, than parents are to give good gifts unto their children. Since it is possible for everyone to have the heavenly unction, “ye need not that any man teach you” (1 John 2:27), and there is no excuse for shunning responsibilities; no duty should be unwelcome, no obligation evaded. Christ Himself is the renewing power, working in and through every soldier by the agency of the Holy Spirit. The efficiency of the Spirit of God will make effective the labors of all who are willing to submit to His guidance "Ye Shall Receive Power, Page 183 Underlined mine LHC God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 X2 X3 God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I might have been referring to someone else's post as a means to make a point through someone else who wouldn't "flame". I apologize for the mistake. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 So What happens if a female ordained minister moves from Ohio to Kentucky? Just a few miles a way, and she works there for that Conference? ANSWER she is given Commissioned Ministerial Credentials by their Union. AND the sun will continue to rise in the morning.. Reminds me of a title to a movie, "The Sun Also Rises". I didn't see the movie. Do you remember it and does it have anything to do with your comment? God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted August 17, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 17, 2012 Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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