CoAspen Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Quote: If God has given us freedom of choice, do you think he has veto power? Could he save the "unsaveable" if He chose to do so? Is God's power limited by our own very flawed power of free will? Can the weak hand of man stay the power of an all powerful God? Is there anyone that God cannot save, if He has the will to do so? Most interesting questions! I would go another step and ask, Is God bound by the actions we think He did in the past? Is the Bible the last and final word of God's actions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Here is Jack's teaching on the Sanctuary in Heaven - in written form (so not from Vance). http://www.jacksequeira.org/hebrew19.htm Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I would go another step and ask, Is God bound by the actions we think He did in the past? Is the Bible the last and final word of God's actions? The better question might be "should we trust the Word of God over our own sweet imagination?" Ultimately it comes down to that. Is God one to contradict His own Word as readily as fallen mankind might choose to do when we are imagining future events? in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 The question is not about our imagination! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 1, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 1, 2013 For me, faith is all about trust. I trust God to do the right thing in the end no matter how far from what I expect, want or think he should do. Even if that means I'm not worth keeping around for eternity, or that saving the most evil person you can think of is His plan. I trust He knows what He is doing. In the end, it's all good. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 1, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 1, 2013 Great discussion! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 1, 2013 Members Share Posted January 1, 2013 For me, faith is all about trust. I trust God to do the right thing in the end no matter how far from what I expect, want or think he should do. Even if that means I'm not worth keeping around for eternity, or that saving the most evil person you can think of is His plan. I trust He knows what He is doing. In the end, it's all good. I agree. Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Sure, thats fine and all LHC, but the only person you can actually apply any of that to is YOU. As you can't see into the heart of any other, you can't judge if they are lost at all. Also as you are not the Divine itself you can't judge if they are lost or not. So what you're saying is that I cannot assure a person that the gospel of Jesus Christ which they just heard, is worth what it says. So why would God care if we carry the Gospel to the whole world. "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”"John 3:36 NASB "He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." 1 John 5:12 NASB And besides, one is not judging when giving the Word as He asks us to do. "And He said to them, “ Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation."Mark 16:15 NASB Not to mention this Word. " Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. "Matthew 7:19-21 God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 So is fulling the gospel commission by taking the Gospel of good news to those have not heard it or accepted it Judgemental? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 So is fulling the gospel commission by taking the Gospel of good news to those have not heard it or accepted it Judgemental? I'm of the opinion that when hearing the Word, most people are much better at judging themselves than others are of judging them, at least if they have consciences that are still functional. "Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. "1 Tim 4:1-3 NKJV And a happy New Year to you, Stan and others still up. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Originally Posted By: EmptyCross Sure, thats fine and all LHC, but the only person you can actually apply any of that to is YOU. As you can't see into the heart of any other, you can't judge if they are lost at all. Also as you are not the Divine itself you can't judge if they are lost or not. So what you're saying is that I cannot assure a person that the gospel of Jesus Christ which they just heard, is worth what it says. So why would God care if we carry the Gospel to the whole world. "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”"John 3:36 NASB "He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." 1 John 5:12 NASB And besides, one is not judging when giving the Word as He asks us to do. "And He said to them, “ Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation."Mark 16:15 NASB Not to mention this Word. " Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. "Matthew 7:19-21 God blesses! Thats not at all what I am saying. I am saying that you can not read those verses, and look at your neighbor and say "Well according to those verses Timmy next door is lost" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 So is fulling the gospel commission by taking the Gospel of good news to those have not heard it or accepted it Judgemental? Only if you precede it by stating that you are telling them this because they are lost and you are there to save them. Outside of that its just you doing what you think is right, providing they are willing to listen to what you have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Only if you precede it by stating that you are telling them this because they are lost and you are there to save them. Outside of that its just you doing what you think is right, providing they are willing to listen to what you have to say. Exaggerated scenario to prove a point: A diver is diving into a molten pool of mercury with no protective garments on. To say if he continues he will die. That's judging by your assessment, especially if he doesn't want to listen. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Quote: A diver is diving into a molten pool of mercury with no protective garments on. To say if he continues he will die. That's judging by your assessment, especially if he doesn't want to listen. Why do people want to take an extreme view??? I did not read it that way in any shape or form!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Originally Posted By: EmptyCross Only if you precede it by stating that you are telling them this because they are lost and you are there to save them. Outside of that its just you doing what you think is right, providing they are willing to listen to what you have to say. Exaggerated scenario to prove a point: A diver is diving into a molten pool of mercury with no protective garments on. To say if he continues he will die. That's judging by your assessment, especially if he doesn't want to listen. God blesses! **bangs head repeatedly against desk** ** Takes a deep breath** No those two things are absolutely nothing the same. You can prove to the diver that he will die if he dives into the lava (bad example by the way cause I have this conversation with my 7 year old all the time) You can not prove that your religion, your beliefs or your take on your holy book is right. You can not prove that my Gods are not Gods and/or that they do not exist. You can not prove that my religion is false. You can simply state your opinion, and when you go out of your way to tell me (or anyone else) that their beliefs are damning them then yes it is judging them. If I come to you and say "Hey LHC, something is missing, I want to know your Lord" and then you tell me your message then its not. If you have a chance to discuss it with a non believer and they are receptive, then great- you should go for it. How bout this, what if I were to come here and tell you that you are wasting your life being a Christian, that one of the other Gods has a plan for you. How would you react? (rhetorical question in a way because I already know the several possible reactions) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 (rhetorical question in a way because I already know the several possible reactions) "Jesus said to the people who believed in him, “You are truly my disciples if you remain faithful to my teachings. And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."John 8:31-33 NLT God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted By: EmptyCross (rhetorical question in a way because I already know the several possible reactions) "Jesus said to the people who believed in him, “You are truly my disciples if you remain faithful to my teachings. And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."John 8:31-33 NLT God blesses! Fair enough,now tell me why anyone, just as secure in their beliefs as you are in yours, should listen to your message? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Quote: Fair enough,now tell me why anyone, just as secure in their beliefs as you are in yours, should listen to your message? The word "should" might be a little too strong as it intimates an authority that is not taken by God until a person of their own free will asks Him to be the Master of their lives. Once that step is taken, without coercion, then and only then does God include all of the promises of the Word for the sake of the willing suppliant based on the suppliant's desires, promises which include the gift of the Holy Spirit Who is given by promise to lead the suppliant into all Truth, something that remains in process for all eternity. If you'd like me to expand on this later after a much needed nap, maybe I can pursue this with a much clearer mind. In the mean time, I hope you're having a . God bless! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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