I'm told by adventist 31 AD Friday Crucifixion. Is this correct?

[todd_vetter33]

Dear John317, as we exchanged ideas on this forum, I turned back to our friend Lysimachus' post where he gave this web-page. http://www.4angelspublications.com/articles/Lunar_Sabbath_SDA_Church.php

If this article proved anything, it is the SDA belief of the quarto-decimen reckoning of "the sabbath" referred to in the expression "the day after the sabbath" as the day that "the First Sheaf of the firstfruits" should be "brought" and "waved before the LORD".

The onus rested on you to provide contrary evidence; I accommodated you, thanks to Lysimachus.

As I said, I repeat, it is of no interest to me.

Your referenced article makes a mountain out of a mole hill in an attempt to explain the errors of the early Adventist church. To understand time specific Prophecy a person simply need to understand the scripture of time and believe it to be true since time has not changed since time began. Time specific Prophecy will work in concert with the scripture of time (Time as God defined time), Not the inclusive reconnings of man and mans differing calendar systems. The very concept of time is word of God which started in the beginning. God taught us how to measure it. If we choose differing calendar methods, we only confuse ourselves by attempting to understand law and testimony with a method that is not law or true testimony. Time will always remain the same until the last day, even if we measure it differently by mans various calendar systems.

Since this issue is of no concern to you I will stop asking you to awswer questions you are currently unqualified to answer since you do not believe or receive word of God from God. If you did, my questions would have been answered with out dodging and sharing a link that offers no facts of proof in favor of your argument. It Would have been nice to see your answer even though it would have been a lie or speculation to why the bible contradicts your placement for the anointing in Bethany. Remember Truth will always be in harmony with truth. I will be happy to let the members of this thread know that you told a lie to me and them when you stated the Anointing in Bethany occured six days before the Passover! The truth will speak according to the law and Testimony that Jesus claimed to fulfil. What you need to figure out is this; why does your NT bible not speak according to the Law and testimony if it conradicts your version of what you believe truth to be concerning the anointing in Bethany! Your credibility as a true worshipper of God depends on you finding the truth concerning this, since the true worshippers of God are in spirit and in truth. Not truth according to human speculations and imaginations

Since I do not dare call you a liar with out sharing the truth in comparison, the below charts illustrates the true ancient historical witness for the placement of the anointing in Bethany since it's not Gods intention to leave you blind and speculating a lie.

P.S. This illustration represents the correct day and year for the Anointing in Bethany as wells as the Crucifixion. What is truth vs the lie as seen below?

Blessings

[todd_vetter33]

Seventh Day Adventists as well as Christians alike have for many centuries professed a lie which causes God to look like a liar and illustrates to the world that Word of God changes with the whim and opinion of the person professing to speak word of God while quoting from a book.

The below illustration serves to Highlight several problems with the lies told to the world by Christians. Enjoy!

[Lysimachus]

Dear John317, as we exchanged ideas on this forum, I turned back to our friend Lysimachus' post where he gave this web-page. http://www.4angelspublications.com/articles/Lunar_Sabbath_SDA_Church.php

If this article proved anything, it is the SDA belief of the quarto-decimen reckoning of "the sabbath" referred to in the expression "the day after the sabbath" as the day that "the First Sheaf of the firstfruits" should be "brought" and "waved before the LORD".

The onus rested on you to provide contrary evidence; I accommodated you, thanks to Lysimachus.

As I said, I repeat, it is of no interest to me.

Correction:

I did not provide the above link.

Gustave did. Get your facts straight before you start hurling accusations.

Gustave sent that link to try and HUMILIATE SDA's, by saying that we have the wrong Sabbath.

Gustave is a Catholic. Did you know this? Yes, Gustave is a Catholic, and attacks SDA's vehemently at ChristianForums.com

One more time: I did not provide that link.

[todd_vetter33]

Correction:

I did not provide the above link.

Gustave did. Get your facts straight before you start hurling accusations.

Gustave sent that link to try and HUMILIATE SDA's, by saying that we have the wrong Sabbath.

Gustave is a Catholic. Did you know this? Yes, Gustave is a Catholic, and attacks SDA's vehemently at ChristianForums.com

One more time: I did not provide that link.

Seventh day Adventists are Catholics. Did you not know this? They are just a division of the Catholic Church dependant upon Catholic Doctrine which they claim to be word of God! All SDA's use the bible, and the Bible NT is Catholic Doctrine. This is a FACT!

If Gustave is attempting to humilate the SDA's he is only humiliating a division of the Catholic Church. It's a shame that Christians are more willing to judge each other instead of seeking truth by the fulfilment of the law to know truth.

You may percieve that I am juding Christians, I am not! It's truth that Judges. A lie will always be a lie and able to be exposed as such by the truth!

The truth will bare witness to truth is a concept clearly presented by this chart in comparison to the last chart! Enjoy!

[todd_vetter33]

Based on the truth displayed in my last post, there is not a soul in the Chrstian world who can maintain any credibility for truth from God, if they claim Jesus was Crucified on a Friday, then claim Matt 16:21 and Mark 8:31 have the same meaning and are not different. This concept simply defies fact and therefore defies truth.

If they do still claim Mark 8:31 and Matthew 16:21 mean the same thing, I would like to know where on the time line presented for the Friday Crucifixion theory they would place that verse to illustrate Jesus rising "AFTER" three days. I'll put their Theory up against the truth to see how it measures up!

Blessings!

[John317]

Todd Vetter, check out post #578982 on the thread, "The Bible says Christ Rose early Saturday morning".

[John317]

Seventh day Adventists are Catholics. Did you not know this?

This is completely false. Now your true colors are coming out.

Again, look at post #578982 on the thread, "The Bible says Christ Rose early Saturday morning", dealing with the same topic as this discussion.

[John317]

Based on the truth displayed in my last post, there is not a soul in the Chrstian world who can maintain any credibility for truth from God, if they claim Jesus was Crucified on a Friday, then claim Matt 16:21 and Mark 8:31 have the same meaning and are not different. This concept simply defies fact and therefore defies truth.

If they do still claim Mark 8:31 and Matthew 16:21 mean the same thing, I would like to know where on the time line presented for the Friday Crucifixion theory they would place that verse to illustrate Jesus rising "AFTER" three days. I'll put their Theory up against the truth to see how it measures up!

See post #578982 on the thread, "The Bible says Christ Rose early Saturday morning."

On that post is evidence that "todd vetter33" believes that Joseph "had to go to Pilate under cover of darkness" to ask Pilate for Christ's body.

This is false.

Actually, John 15: 43 says that Joseph went "boldly"-- NOT under cover of darkness!-- in order to ask for Jesus' body.

Todd Vetter also says that the Jews wanted Christ's body to stay on the cross, and Joseph was afraid of the Jews because he wanted the body of Christ to come down from the cross.

This is also false.

In fact, John 19: 31 says the Jews asked Pilate to have the bodies removed before the Sabbath.

If those things are examples of your knowledge of the Scriptures-- and they must be!-- I wouldn't waste my time studying your "Theories."

I think people on the forum need to be made aware of this if they aren't already.

[todd_vetter33]

See post #578982 on the thread, "The Bible says Christ Rose early Saturday morning."

On that post is evidence that "todd vetter33" believes that Joseph "had to go to Pilate under cover of darkness" to ask Pilate for Christ's body.

This is false.

Actually, John 15: 43 says that Joseph went "boldly"-- NOT under cover of darkness!-- in order to ask for Jesus' body.

Todd Vetter also says that the Jews wanted Christ's body to stay on the cross, and Joseph was afraid of the Jews because he wanted the body of Christ to come down from the cross.

This is also false.

In fact, John 19: 31 says the Jews asked Pilate to have the bodies removed before the Sabbath.

If those things are examples of your knowledge of the Scriptures-- and they must be!-- I wouldn't waste my time studying your "Theories."

I think people on the forum need to be made aware of this if they aren't already.

Mark says he took courage This means he was scared to do what he was doing but did it anyways! The Book of John States Joseph was a diciple of Jesus, but secretly for Fear of the Jews.

According to John You are correct that the Jews asked Pilate to remove the men from the Cross before the Sabbath. You are incorrect to assume that Jesus was removed at the time the legs of the thieves where broken. After the Legs of the theives are broken and the side of Jesus is peirced, you will notice that the gospel of John states very clearly "AFTER THIS" Joseph had to go ask for the body of Jesus to be removed! WHY? because the Jews Left Jesus hanging on the Cross and Joseph did not agree with this. It's a factual and physical imposibility for Jesus to have made it in the tomb prior to sunset and still have all the details mentioned in the 4 bible gospels to play out even if one started at the ninth hour When Jesus died. The Jews where not removing Jesus from the Cross simply because he died in the 9th hour. They cared not that he had already died. The men on the cross were being removed before sunset due to Jewish law but upon seeing Jesus already dead, they peirced his side and left him on the cross.

There are three ancient recordings that currently exist which state Evening had come before Jesus was ever removed from the cross. Only one ancient recording (Luke) Falsely attempts to portray Jesus removed and buried prior to the Sabbath. Just because your Catholic tradtion and Catholic doctrine has taught you Jesus was removed from the Cross prior to Evening does not mean you were taught the truth. Below is testimony from the G-12 text which your 4 Roman bible gospels origniated from. Enjoy!

P.S. Though G-12 Text is ancient Catholic Doctrine and not 100% accurate in every detail as is the case withthe 4 Roman gospels used by Chrsitians today, it still holds more credibility than you built on the 4 bible half truths alone.

[todd_vetter33]

The full truth concerning a facts compellation from the historical record concerning 3 days and 3 nights can be seen below.

[todd_vetter33]

Originally Posted By: Todd Vetter

You are correct that the Jews asked Pilate to remove the men from the Cross before the Sabbath.

I deny I ever said that.

Are you John317? You appear to have confusion concerning your identity.

[todd_vetter33]

Originally Posted By: Todd Vetter

(Luke) Falsely attempts to portray Jesus removed and buried prior to the Sabbath.

I believe “ALL the Scriptures” and that Luke is “the Scriptures” just like the other three Gospels.

We cannot discourse if we have no common ground on the the Scriptures.

So what you are saying is that Scripture can have error and lies yet still be truth? Two Bible gospels and one outside source disagree with Luke concerning when Jesus was buried. You may want to recheck what you consider scripture to be.

[todd_vetter33]

Originally Posted By: Todd Vetter

You are incorrect to assume that Jesus was removed at the time the legs of the thieves where broken.

You do not know what my explanation is. You give it a false colour.

Was I addressing you in this? I am well aware of the Chrsitian tradtition concerning this and if you believe Luke to be telling the truth about Jesus removed from the cross before the sun went down that day. It's pretty clear what your position is.

[todd_vetter33]

Originally Posted By: Todd Vetter

the G-12 text which your 4 Roman bible gospels origniated from

……………….

Though G-12 Text is ancient Catholic Doctrine and not 100% accurate in every detail as is the case withthe 4 Roman gospels used by Chrsitians today, it still holds more credibility than you built on the 4 bible half truths alone.

SamieTodd calls the four canonical Gospels the “4 Roman bible gospels”.

SamieTodd claims ‘our’ present four canonical Gospels “origniated from” the mysterious document he doped, the “G-12 Text”.

It takes no genius to see the “G-12 Text” is an attempt at a ‘Harmony of the Four Gospels’.

SamieTodd is not able to recognize the obvious implication; he

exposes his lack of the common attribute of most people, the ability to think.

I must say, the section I read, ‘Lection 132 ‘the Burial of Jesus’ to me has been an astonishing successful attempt at harmony ---the closest to ‘true’, I have ever seen!

What a pity SamieTodd is too blind to see it.

Where did you get this ‘document’, SamieTodd Vetter?

I would honestly appreciate if you could tell me.

Again, Not sure why you think I am Sammie. Sammie is a typical confused Christian building a perception on Cathoilc Doctrine just like the christians of the Christian world who differ one from another.

[todd_vetter33]

I apologise; I got confused whom you actually addressed.

It seems there is one thing we do agree on, that Joseph began to undertake to bury the body of Jesus "AFTER IT HAD BECOME EVENING ALREADY" Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 John 19:31,38 Luke 23:50.

But that you must declare Luke's Gospel "false", is only because _you_ hold false ideas. Luke's account is perfectly reconcilable with the other three 'Bible Gospels'. The fault lies with you; not with Luke.

Luke attempts to specifically contradict the other gospels in the fact that Evening had already come before Jesus was removed from the Cross. Truth will never contradict truth.

For ease of testimony comparison all 4 gospel testimonies are listed below.

Lies are factually in Bible gospel cannon and it's for this reason that the perceptions of Christian men vary when attempting to tell this story. One of the most obvious of lies found is in the book of John claiming Nicodemus came to help joseph bury Jesus with spices according to Jewish coustoms.

To Claim a lie inspired by Christian imagination is truth from God is to simply bare false witness about God. This is somthing all Christians do and is the very reason they have yet to fulfil the law to recieve the spirit of truth from God.

[todd_vetter33]

Originally Posted By: todd_vetter33

Luke attempts to specifically contradict the other gospels in the fact that Evening had already come before Jesus was removed from the Cross. Truth will never contradict truth.

For ease of testimony comparison all 4 gospel testimonies are listed below.

Quote where and how “Luke attempts to specifically contradict the other gospels in the fact”!

I repeat, Luke ‘tells’ NOTHING about that “Jesus was removed from the Cross” “before sunset”, anywhere!

One has to go to Mark, Matthew and John to read about the time of day or night “Joseph suddenly came there”, Luke 23:50.

Make your comparisons from the Gospels themselves; not from a chart, and you won’t have any difficulties to see the true chronology of that night PLUS following day’s events.

Now as I gave you credit for, Todd Vetter, you are the first ‘opponent’ I ever encountered who ALSO understand that Joseph’s actions started and ended with and on the day that Jesus was BURIED.

Why should this discovery be spoiled through extra-Biblical so called ‘evidence’? The Word of God the Scriptures do not need help from anywhere or anyone --- not from you or me!

Are you and I looking at the same book of luke?

50 And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just:

51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.

52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.

53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.

54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

It's very apparent that the final Catholic author of luke attempts to portray Jesus in the tomb before the Sabbath began so that Catholics could claim the Day Jesus was Crucified in their Count of three days.

[todd_vetter33]

Originally Posted By: todd_vetter33

................

if you believe Luke to be telling the truth about Jesus removed from the cross before the sun went down that day. It's pretty clear what your position is.

Luke does not tell that Jesus' body was removed from the cross before the sun went down that day.

Luke 23:53B tells what happened "THAT DAY before the sun went down" - verse 54 - BEFORE "the Sabbath according to the (Fourth) Commandment" verse 65B would have started and the women would have begun to "rest".

THIS IS JUST ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT 'Document G-12' says!

G-12 says noon whereas Luke says the body was laid "mid-afternoon"!

I don't believe you are familiar with what the G-12 says. The G-12 states Jesus was buried at the beginning of the second watch. That's approximately the start of the midnight hours or 9 PM as we would keep time today for that Season.

[todd_vetter33]

Originally Posted By: todd_vetter33

Again, Not sure why you think I am Sammie. Sammie is a typical confused Christian building a perception on Cathoilc Doctrine just like the christians of the Christian world who differ one from another.

I asked you - politely - where you found this so called G-12 Text?

Can you or will you please tell me?

The G-12 text is a verifiable ancient text that predates the 4 Roman Cannon gospels. It is factually the source Gospel for all 4 bible texts. The G-12 text was discovered in a monestary in tibet back in the 1870's. It was translated by a Catholic man named Ousely.

Christian opinions of the G-12 text are mixed. Some claim falsely that it is a perfect Gospel and some claim falsely that it is a 19th century forgery.

Though the document is factually verifiably ancient; it, like the 4 bible gospels which originated from it are less than perfect. It does preserve the Vegetarian health message which was a core doctrine of Jesus concerning repentance and physical purification of the body to house the spirit of God. It also stresses the importance of fulfilling the Law with true repentance where you identify sin (that which makes you stumble) and repent from that as well.

Many of the charts i have shared with you over the course of this thread list the source where I found the G-12 text. Had you been taking the time to review the many truths being shared with you by me, you would have found this information on your own. I share this information freely as it is just as credible an ancient source as any Christian document currently used by Christians today.

Gospel of holy 12. (The Original Catholic Gospel)

Christians have a unique opportunity to see what was on the plate of the 3rd and 4th century councils concerning the early Roman church. Did the councils of Rome choose wisely when they made your 4 bible gospels? You decide!

[todd_vetter33]

Originally Posted By: todd_vetter33

Are you and I looking at the same book of luke?

50 And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just:

51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.

52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.

53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.

54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

It's very apparent that the final Catholic author of luke attempts to portray Jesus in the tomb before the Sabbath began so that Catholics could claim the Day Jesus was Crucified in their Count of three days.

Nonsense!

Where and how - I ask again - does Luke contradict Mark or Matthew or John?

He does not. Not at all!

Burial-day started "Evening" Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 John 19:31,38 _LUKE 23:50_

Burial-day ENDED BEGAN ending "mid-afternoon THAT DAY" Luke 23:54 John 19:42 "by the time of the Jews' preparations" [beginning until sunset].

Luke as well as the the other bible gospels attempt to list the details of the crucifixion Chronologially. Luke, Just like the other bible gospels, is missing details of truth that are found in other bible Gospels. Luke as it is currently written, gives the Implication that Jesus was not yet taken off the cross before the Sabbath began. Especially if this testimony is given with the perception of a False Friday Crucifixion theory.

Due to this false testimony found in Luke because it is missing the full truth of details in correct chronological order as to not inpire Christian confusion, Christians for centuries have attempted to count the 14th of Nissan in thier day count for the fulfilment of 3 days and 3 nights even though their testimony falls short.

The start point for the prophecy of 3 days and 3 nights began at the time Jesus was laid in the tomb and the door was closed shut.

The prophecy did not end until the door of the tomb opened a few hours into the Evening of the First day of the week according to jewish reconning and the ancient historical record rejected by Rome in the early church!

[todd_vetter33]

Thank you, very much.

From the little I have read, Lection 132, the document undoubtedly is --- as I said before --- an OBVIOUS synoptic attempt and therefore LATER than any of the Gospels.

HOWEVER, I will never accept anything than the Gospels we have had for all the centuries.

You may accept other authorities; then don't moan when all disorder and sheer chaos break loose in your life.

So what you are saying is that you will never accept the word of God from God via the spirit of truth?

For men to claim the factual lies found in the 4 bible gospels are word of God and truth from God is to tell a lie that can only be repented of if they actually repent and keep the commandments.

There is so little that you know about your 4 bible gospels. The christians are truely in a sad state.

Below is just a handful of lies found in the bible gospels when the bible gospels are cross compared which Christian men claim is truth from God.

[todd_vetter33]

Originally Posted By: todd_vetter33

Luke, Just like the other bible gospels, is missing details of truth that are found in other bible Gospels.

No; it is not a case of ‘missing’.

I believe every Gospel writer CHOSE the anecdotes he wanted to record for posterity.

You are certainly correct in this statement that "the gospel writers chose"!!! This means they were not led by the spirit of God who establishes truth and remembers all things Jesus said.

The posterity they were attempting to extablish however was not the truth according to truth of the event. It was alleged truth according to the Roman Catholic perception.

blessings!

[todd_vetter33]

"God is a God of ORDER!"

This is a statement I can agree with 100%. So why then, if your bible is Word of God as is the False Christian claim, does your bible present so much disorder?

I can confirm that God is a God of Order as word of God clearly illustrates on this next illustration! What you have to ask yourself is this: Why is there so much disorder in the Christian world? What is the source of their disorder?

[todd_vetter33]

Here, all readers, SEE!

See the common error characteristic of _ALL_ - yes, of EVERY Wednesday-crucifixion theory: ‘3 days and 3 nights in the _grave_’.

FACT: Every Theory presented by the Christian world not illustrating 3 days and 3 nights in the grave has fallen short of 3 days and 3 nights in fulfilment in acccordence with the scriptures concerning Time! This in turn makes scripture appear to be a lie when it is the testimony of men who are lying!

For Clarity, I define scripture as that which was actually spoken by inspiration of God or written words which accurately reflect that which was spoken. Christians claim truth and lie to both be Scripture as long as they were put in their bible by rome!

Is it Error to present the truth concerning the event according to the spirit of truth, even if it is in conflict with the many diversified Christian speculations which misrepresent the scripture that was spoken concerning the event?

Gerhard, Though you are not qualified to answer this next question truthfully with Scripture/truth from God; where would you place the Mark 8:31 Prophecy in fulfilment as seen on the Friday Crucifixion time line below?

[todd_vetter33]

Here, all readers, SEE!

See the common error characteristic of _ALL_ - yes, of EVERY Wednesday-crucifixion theory: ‘3 days and 3 nights in the _grave_’.

FACT: Every Theory presented by the Christian world not illustrating 3 days and 3 nights in the grave has fallen short of illustrating 3 days and 3 nights in fulfilment, in acccordence with the scripture/prophecies concerning time, and fallen short of illustrating actual truth for the event! This in turn makes scripture appear to be a lie when it is the testimony of men who are lying!

For Clarity, I define scripture as that which was actually spoken by inspiration of God or written words which accurately reflect that which was spoken. Christians claim truth and lie to both be Scripture as long as they were put in their bible by rome!

Is it Error to present the truth concerning the event according to the spirit of truth, even if it is in conflict with the many diversified Christian speculations which misrepresent the scripture that was spoken concerning the event?

Gerhard, Though you are not qualified to answer this next question truthfully with Scripture/truth from God; where would you place the Mark 8:31 Prophecy in fulfilment as seen on the Friday Crucifixion time line seen below? Any Christian reading this post want to take a guess at where they would place Mark 8:31? So far the only answer I have gotten from Gehard in another thread concerning my question about the placement of Mark 8 is name calling "naughty boy" while he continues in his discord with another member of that thread.

[todd_vetter33]

"God is a God of ORDER!"

This is a statement I can agree with 100%. So why then, if your bible is Word of God as is the False Christian claim, does your bible and the Christian world as a whole present so much disorder?

I can confirm that God is a God of Order as word of God clearly illustrates on this next illustration! What you have to ask yourself is this: Why is there so much disorder in the Christian world? What is the source of their disorder?