bonnie Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 William J.H Boetcker The Ten Cannots that emphasizes freedom and responsibility of the individual on himself. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help little men by tearing down big men. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot establish sound security on borrowed money. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn. You cannot build character and courage by destroying men's initiative and independence. And you cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they can and should do for themselves. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 BONNIE thank you for posting this list-----this is so true dgrimm60 But it does not appear to be true any longer Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted November 8, 2012 Moderators Share Posted November 8, 2012 What did Jesus say? Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 What did Jesus say? Can you give me a hint as to which you think Jesus would disagree with or is unbiblical? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted November 8, 2012 Moderators Share Posted November 8, 2012 Will make it as a blog post and post here soon (link and full post). Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Will make it as a blog post and post here soon (link and full post). That will be very nice,but please leave out your opinion that conservatives want everyone to starve Deal only with how each of the following statements are unbiblical You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help little men by tearing down big men. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot establish sound security on borrowed money. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn. You cannot build character and courage by destroying men's initiative and independence. And you cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they can and should do for themselves. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted November 8, 2012 Moderators Share Posted November 8, 2012 Nope: that statement is nonsense on its face, because ... well, will deal with that separately. This is what Jesus said: Jesus on Wealth It’s a very simple question: what does Jesus, according to the Bible, say about money and wealth? I’ll use the King James Version because I enjoy the language, and will try to be as comprehensive as I can – very happy to be pointed to any references in the Gospels that I’ve missed. I’ve also used only one version of a story if it appears across multiple Gospels. Matthew 19: 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Luke 6: 24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. 25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep. Mark 4: 18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, 19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Matthew 22: 17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? 19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. 20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? 21 They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s. Interestingly, despite looking pretty assiduously – the search for discrepant cases and disconfirming evidence is a key part of the research methodology I teach – I couldn’t find a single text in which Jesus spoke approvingly of wealthy or wealthiness. Again, happy to be shown any I’ve missed. I haven’t included his single overt political act – casting the moneychangers out of the Temple courtyard – because it could be argued to be a religious more than an economic or political act. I’ve also left out the story commonly known as ‘the widow’s mite’, since it is about giving everything we have – again in a religious context. Not making any comments beyond these: letting Jesus speak for himself. Nicer formatting at the blog: http://www.bravus.com/blog/?p=3095 Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 It was really a very simple question.Not what Jesus wanted the "other guy" to do,but you as to your personal responsibility. Maybe now you can post the many quotes that bring into balance jesus was trying to teach Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Maybe we can break this down two at a time "You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift". True or false according to the King James Bible "You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong". True or false according to the King James Bible.Can I strengthen someone that is weak by weakening someone that is strong? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted November 8, 2012 Moderators Share Posted November 8, 2012 Quote: Maybe now you can post the many quotes that bring into balance jesus was trying to teach As I said, I *looked* for the opposite side in Jesus' words and couldn't find it. By all means feel free to post it. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Quote: Maybe now you can post the many quotes that bring into balance jesus was trying to teach As I said, I *looked* for the opposite side in Jesus' words and couldn't find it. By all means feel free to post it. So you believe the bible is silent on thrift? Or at least silent on the wisdom of it? Proverbs 21:20 20 The wise store up choice food and olive oil, Proverbs 6:6-8 6 Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! 7 It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, 8 yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. but fools gulp theirs down. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 QR frame: "For whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him." Well done, thou good and faithful servant. "Though thou keepest thine eye single, let not any beggar thee; for thine goods are heaped upon thee by thine Gd who desirest to reward thee." (jasd 12:12) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 QR frame: "For whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him." Well done, thou good and faithful servant. "Though thou keepest thine eye single, let not any beggar thee; for thine goods are heaped upon thee by thine Gd who desirest to reward thee." (jasd 12:12) The only way you can believe the bible is silent or does not encourage thrift is if you believe the bible does not speak out against smoking. It doesn't say "Thou Shalt Not Smoke" Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 As usual answers are given to questions not asked. These statements deal with your(general) personal behavior and belief. Why does a question about thrift need to be turned into a discussion of the poor.Thrift does not indicate or demand to be stingy with the poor.Rather quite the opposite.If I am thrifty in my personal life when I encounter those that need my help I am in a better position to do so Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted November 8, 2012 Moderators Share Posted November 8, 2012 I could get into a point-by-point critique of the OP, but I have to go to work. Here's my blanket response: no-one is advocating any of those things. It is a list of straw men. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 I could get into a point-by-point critique of the OP, but I have to go to work. Here's my blanket response: no-one is advocating any of those things. It is a list of straw men. We are doing everyone of those things. 1.You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. Credit cards to purchase what you really can't afford.Having must have items that really aren't.Many area's it is done to say nothing of the government 2.You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. 3.You cannot help little men by tearing down big men. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. Done all the time. The penalties for business is now outweighing the benefits.The employer is not wealthier than the employee because of hardwork and sacrifice.He is wealthy because he exploits the poor employee 4.You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. We condmen constantly those that have more than we do,as if there is a set amount of money and they prohibit us from getting more than we have and they take more than their share 5.You cannot establish sound security on borrowed money. Look at the debt of the US alone.We borrow or print money as we think we need it and it has led where? 6.You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. Race and wealth are used ad-nausem to do just that.The have nots are always angry and those that have.Knowing that somehow they have because it was taken from them 7.You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn. We do this in all area's,max out a personal or government credit card,get one with a larger balance and keep spending in hopes somehow at the end of the day you come out ahead. 8.You cannot build character and courage by destroying men's initiative and independence. Maybe a straw man to those that believe you can give enough and foster independence. 9.And you cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they can and should do for themselves. Another straw man I guess.Keep someone on the dole,keep doing for them and they will somehow learn to do for themselves Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 I could get into a point-by-point critique of the OP, but I have to go to work. Here's my blanket response: no-one is advocating any of those things. It is a list of straw men. You are intent on turning this into something it wasn't.Doesn't have a thing to do with the poor or what we should do as christians to help those around us. You seem to think thrift is unbiblical. You haven't shown anything that says that personal thrift and responsible handling of your own finances is a code word for not helping the poor or somehow hoarding. Some of us have limited resources,thrift in our daily lives allows us to do what you seem to think we are against I hate dealing with coupons but watch for 2 for 1. Sometimes it is for something we don't even like but it allows me to give it to the food shelf or at least one of them.Free samples are great as that is where they go to so I don't have to buy them. What I don't needlessly waste usually finds a good home. I love shopping the Goodwill.I go Thurs as childrens items are 50%.There are many new items still with tags.Winter can really get cold here and there are many children than can benefit from someone being thrifty and buying 5 new coats for 20.00. Please don't insist on turning this into denying the poor or greed. Personal behavior,biblical or unbiblical Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Quote: Jesus spoke approvingly of wealthy or wealthiness. Again, happy to be shown any I’ve missed. This is not meant to show where you've missed but only wish it to be an "and" as the Jewish culture of Jesus' day on this earth would probably have done. "Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers." 3 John 1:2 NKJV "For this is not for the ease of others and for your affliction, but by way of equality at this present time your abundance being a supply for their need, so that their abundance also may become a supply for your need, that there may be equality; as it is written, “He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little had no lack.”" 2 Corinthians 8:13-15 NASB "And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work." 2 Corinthians 9:8 NKJV It is sometimes humorous when some decry having an abundance as being somehow less than righteous and yet on the other hand can see a great deal of righteousness in being given a share of someone else's abundance. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Again,what is biblical and unbiblical concerning personal behavior for christian and practical for non-believers.Not a discussion as to what any one person should do with their means. This is more what you should not do Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I love shopping the Goodwill.I go Thurs as childrens items are 50%.There are many new items still with tags.Winter can really get cold here and there are many children than can benefit from someone being thrifty and buying 5 new coats for 20.00. Please don't insist on turning this into denying the poor or greed. Personal behavior,biblical or unbiblical Amen! We have some great Goodwills down here in NC. I have found many valuable books at the Goodwill. Not to mention all the other useful stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuff sed Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 PLEASE do not limit yourself to shopping at Goodwill to save money. Look up Thrift Shops in the Yellow pages of your phone book. If you live near a city there will be Umpteen "Thrift Shops" listed......... Tuesday is my "Thrift Shopping day"... I generally do 8-10 shops on Tuesdays.. I have gotten some bargains that are hard to believe. I plan to either right an article for some magazine on the joys of Thrift Shopping or start a blog about it. Nuff Sed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 PLEASE do not limit yourself to shopping at Goodwill to save money. Look up Thrift Shops in the Yellow pages of your phone book. If you live near a city there will be Umpteen "Thrift Shops" listed......... Tuesday is my "Thrift Shopping day"... I generally do 8-10 shops on Tuesdays.. I have gotten some bargains that are hard to believe. I plan to either right an article for some magazine on the joys of Thrift Shopping or start a blog about it. Nuff Sed. I don't but the Goodwill and the Salvation Army are my favorites. I am really happy when I can find either the vintage items my DIL"s like or new items in box they can use Wish I didn't hate coupons so bad would like to use more of them but it makes me want to tear my hair out. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesaba Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Thank you for posting this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 Thank you for posting this As this was immediately questioned as to what Jesus would do,I would still like to find out what is unbiblical about the Ten Cannot's for personal behavior. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted November 10, 2012 Moderators Share Posted November 10, 2012 They're *not* for personal behaviour! How does an individual... "weaken[] the strong tear[] down big men pull[] down the wage payer destroy[] men's initiative and independence" These are clearly aimed at (Republicans' caricature of) government. In terms of personal thrift, debt and responsibility, we have no issues, and are probably in agreement. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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