Separate, but United? The Conundrum of Race-based Conferences

[Woody]

Quote:

from JoeMo,

Some people have said that we have separate conferences to preserve and respect the cultural diversity between races. OK - why not have an Hispanic Conference, and an Asian Conference, and a Native American Conference as well?

I think the saying: "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" applies here.

[Kountzer]

Even if all the conferences were consolidated into one conference, there would still be defacto polarization to a certain extent in the local churches.

[cricket]

Well, then people don't know how to do a rehaul of EVERYTHING like I suggested (and I did suggest a rehaul, NOT a consolidation of what is currently in practice). Anyway, to me it's a moot point. The secular world has forced integration, and it's working. There's plenty of evidence of it in the elementary schools. Young people just don't see race to be a huge issue. Given enough time, it just won't matter what segregation we try to impose on ourselves as Seventh-day Adventists. The people won't tolerate it. They'll sit promiscuously (c. 1880) and there will be no "evils" to come from sitting with members of other races.

[cardw]

The secular world has forced integration, and it's working. There's plenty of evidence of it in the elementary schools. Young people just don't see race to be a huge issue. Given enough time, it just won't matter what segregation we try to impose on ourselves as Seventh-day Adventists. The people won't tolerate it. They'll sit promiscuously (c. 1880) and there will be no "evils" to come from sitting with members of other races.

And I'd like to point out that the main resistance to integration came from Christians. And, still, the church is always behind.

This is further evidence that religion is not about morality or spirituality. It is about control. The function of church is to sustain the church, not serve people or society. It's main purpose is to sustain the status quo.

You would think with all the claims of superior insight the church would get it right sometimes. Instead it usually weighs down and resists progress.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

You would think with all the claims of superior insight the church would get it right sometimes. Instead it usually weighs down and resists progress.

Hmmmm.....'ironical', isn't it?

(I forget the source for the word...a movie possibly)

[LifeHiscost]

This is further evidence that religion is not about morality or spirituality. It is about control. The function of church is to sustain the church, not serve people or society. It's main purpose is to sustain the status quo.

You would think with all the claims of superior insight the church would get it right sometimes. Instead it usually weighs down and resists progress.

Evidently you don't keep up with the figures available revealing the many, old, young and in between, who are giving up the controlling interests of the normal pursuits of extending their interests in this dying world, in favor of extending a helping hand for the sake of those who have a minimal share of that control. The evidence of that is seen in multiplied hundreds of thousand yielding their lives to the Master, Jesus by name, Whose Kingdom is reflected in self denial for the sake of those who fall prey to the "superior wisdom" of those coveting control. And it is always good to hear of those willing to do the same without sitting in condemnation of others that are trying their best to seek and to save that which was lost.

"Then Jesus said to His disciples, If anyone desires to be My disciple, let him deny himself [disregard, lose sight of, and forget himself and his own interests] and take up his cross and follow Me [cleave steadfastly to Me, conform wholly to My example in living and, if need be, in dying, also]."Matthew 16:24 AMP

God blesses!

[cricket]

And I'd like to point out that the main resistance to integration came from Christians. And, still, the church is always behind.

This is further evidence that religion is not about morality or spirituality. It is about control. The function of church is to sustain the church, not serve people or society. It's main purpose is to sustain the status quo.

You would think with all the claims of superior insight the church would get it right sometimes. Instead it usually weighs down and resists progress.

The church does it get right sometimes. Sometimes it gets it wrong. C'est la vie.

I like being a Christian most of the time.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

This is further evidence that religion is not about morality or spirituality. It is about control. The function of church religion is to sustain the church religion , not serve people or society. It's main purpose is to sustain the status quo.

You would think with all the claims of superior insight the church religion would get it right sometimes. Instead it usually weighs down and resists progress.

If the word "religion" is used consistently in what you said in the above quote, I agree with you. The chuch (people, not corporate entity) are basically good. Man-made denominational entities are all about controlling behavior and your wallet.

[Woody]

Quote:

This is further evidence that religion is not about morality or spirituality. It is about control. The function of church religion is to sustain the church religion , not serve people or society. It's main purpose is to sustain the status quo.

You would think with all the claims of superior insight the church religion would get it right sometimes. Instead it usually weighs down and resists progress.

If the word "religion" is used consistently in what you said in the above quote, I agree with you. The chuch (people, not corporate entity) are basically good. Man-made denominational entities are all about controlling behavior and your wallet.

JoeMo my friend - are you suggesting that God's Church is a man-made entity?

[JoeMo]

Quote:

JoeMo my friend - are you suggesting that God's Church is a man-made entity?

Absolutely not, Woody. God has people in His church from many denominations - not just Adventism.

I am suggesting that corporate denominational entities are man-made.

I may be dreaming, but I do believe I read somewhere in her writings that EGW was not all that much of a fan of the Adventist Church organizing into a "corporation" - at least initially.

[debbym]

Quote:

Some people have said that we have seperate conferences to preserve and respect the cultural diversity between races. OK - why not have an Hispanic Conference, and an Asian Conference, and a Native American Conference as well?

if any other group, Italian, Hispanic, German, Asian, Native American... etc. had the members and resources, i have no doubt they would have their own conferences, and many of these do have their own churches.

we have i think three Hispanic congregations in our community, and everyone is happy on every side about this.

no one around here is whispering racism over it.

[phkrause]

Quote:

Some people have said that we have seperate conferences to preserve and respect the cultural diversity between races. OK - why not have an Hispanic Conference, and an Asian Conference, and a Native American Conference as well?

if any other group, Italian, Hispanic, German, Asian, Native American... etc. had the members and resources, i have no doubt they would have their own conferences, and many of these do have their own churches.

we have i think three Hispanic congregations in our community, and everyone is happy on every side about this.

no one around here is whispering racism over it.

Not only that, most of these groups do have Churches dedicated to there nationalities, and languages, at least in NYC they do. We even had a church that was dedicated to the Jewish people in NY, but we had people of all different cultures, race, etc., there. Again we need to look at when the Black conferences started and why! The other members of the church were pretty much white, very little Hispanics, Asians, etc., its a little different now, there are very large numbers of Hispanics, Asians, etc.

[lazarus]

i believe we can have unity and diversity. how could anyone prove that their exist racism in the organizational leaders in the African American SDA church and in the European American SDA church.

Racists reveal their racism by their actions and their words. You know it when you see it.

[Woody]

The worst kind of racism I've witnessed is when a particular culture feels they are without racism and that it's the 'other' culture that has it.

[lazarus]

The worst kind of racism I've witnessed is when a particular culture feels they are without racism and that it's the 'other' culture that has it.

Oh, don't start that nonsense again. It's old.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Oh, don't start that nonsense again. It's old.

Just true!

God blesses!

[Kountzer]

Virtual, arm chair wannabe sociologists and church administrators. They know everything.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Woody

The worst kind of racism I've witnessed is when a particular culture feels they are without racism and that it's the 'other' culture that has it.

Oh, don't start that nonsense again. It's old.

Why didn't you respond like that to cardw's comment. I think he forgot that the fight to end racism began in Christian churches.

[lazarus]

Why didn't you respond like that to cardw's comment. I think he forgot that the fight to end racism began in Christian churches.

Problem is that some of the strongest opposition came from Christian pastors and churches too!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Problem is that some of the strongest opposition came from Christian pastors and churches too!

Which only proves the master deceiver has infiltrated the Christian church.

"No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds."

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 NASB

God blesses!

[joeb]

I've lived in an area where there were separate SDA churches for different races, but the churches existed for one basic reason: language. Those of non-white races who spoke, read, and wrote English pretty well often attended the white churches and had friends there. They were always welcomed there by the vast majority of church members.

I've worked with and known white, black, asian, latino, etc... racists. Prejudice knows no racial barriers. It's a human condition caused by sin, and we're all guilty of being sinful.

[Woody]

Quote:

I've worked with and known white, black, asian, latino, etc... racists. Prejudice knows no racial barriers. It's a human condition caused by sin, and we're all guilty of being sinful.

[Kountzer]

The only sda racism I've experienced has been on this msg board. I was at my church, a region conference, church this past weekend. All I experienced was praise and worship. I attend conference churches, and all I experience is praise and worship. Here, it's a different story.

[phkrause]

The only sda racism I've experienced has been on this msg board. I was at my church, a region conference, church this past weekend. All I experienced was praise and worship. I attend conference churches, and all I experience is praise and worship. Here, it's a different story.

Good point Kountzer

[Woody]

The only sda racism I've experienced has been on this msg board. I was at my church, a region conference, church this past weekend. All I experienced was praise and worship. I attend conference churches, and all I experience is praise and worship. Here, it's a different story.

Thanks Kountzer. I've had a similar experience. Not sure what it is about this board.