Separate, but United? The Conundrum of Race-based Conferences

[Woody]

It's my thought that we only need one conference for all races. I don't feel that each race needs their own conference. Each race might want their own churches. But in my view each race does not need their own conference. Hope the distinction is clear.

IOWs - it's my personal view - that allowing the Blacks to have a Black conference - is preferential treatment over all the other races. One conference for all is sufficient in my eyes. OTherwise - in order to be fair - you would have to allow a conference for each race.

[Stan]

The example of the Korean Churches work well, they are kind of a shadow conference that are part of the Conferences. They elect a national leader and they give direction to the conference who should be Pastors in the Churches.

One division was shocked to find the Korean Union build a University in their part of the division with out letting the division know. Their mission is to reach out to Koreans around the globe.

[Stan]

It is NOT racist to do 'target marketing'

[Woody]

Then this leads to a discussion of whether 'divisions' are needed. Which in my mind - they are not.

[lazarus]

IOWs - it's my personal view - that allowing the Blacks to have a Black conference - is preferential treatment over all the other races. One conference for all is sufficient in my eyes. OTherwise - in order to be fair - you would have to allow a conference for each race.

You are either missing the point or deliberately missing the point. Gregory made the point that regional conferences came as a result of white conferences having and giving preferential treatment. Regional conferences were to give African-Americans the equality that was denied to them.

[phkrause]

You are either missing the point or deliberately missing the point. Gregory made the point that regional conferences came as a result of white conferences having and giving preferential treatment. Regional conferences were to give African-Americans the equality that was denied to them.

That's what I've always been led to believe also.

[Woody]

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You are either missing the point or deliberately missing the point. Gregory made the point that regional conferences came as a result of white conferences having and giving preferential treatment. Regional conferences were to give African-Americans the equality that was denied to them.

I have no idea what happened in the past. All I can relate to is the present. And there are currently no White conferences. There is one conference that encompusses all races. Then there is a conference that is for the Blacks.

[lazarus]

I have no idea what happened in the past.

To come to a credible conclusion about the present it's good practice to know about the past.

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And there are currently no White conferences.

Yes there are.

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There is one conference that encompusses all races. Then there is a conference that is for the Blacks.

Seems like your not clear on the present either.

[Woody]

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Seems like your not clear on the present either.

That would be debatable.

[Gregory Matthews]

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IOWs - it's my personal view - that allowing the Blacks to have a Black conference - is preferential treatment over all the other races. One conference for all is sufficient in my eyes. OTherwise - in order to be fair - you would have to allow a conference for each race.

Regional Conferences came about for two reasons: 1) It was believed that evangelism among African-Americans would best grow under African-American leadership. This is probably accurate.

2) To give individual African-Americans leadership opportunities that they would not otherwise have had.

The denomination is growing it the availability of leadership positions for African-Americans. But, a valid argument could still be made equity has not been achieved.

This situation with African-Americans differs from that of Hispanic and Oriental persons.

Note: At the present time African-American SDAs are not in agreement as to whether or not the Regional Conferences should continue to exist. Until there can be agreement nothing will change. To initiate change without agreement on the part of the affected people would simply be a White majority imposing its will on a minority group.

[Gregory Matthews]

NOTE: The community that we are discussing is commonly referenced as Black, African-American, and by several other titles. Each of these titles is considered by some members of that group to have negative conotations. As a result, when I am working with a member of that group, I will often ask them how they would like to be referenced.

In more public, generalized situations, where I cannot ask people individually, I will often fall-back to a common title, which is what I have done here. If my use of common titles had been offensive, I did not intend to offend.

[phkrause]

Excellent posts Gregory

[Gregory Matthews]

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It is NOT racist to do 'target marketing'

In the United States, the Courts have ruled that "target marketing" can be proof of discriminatory intent. But, it is not always.

[Gregory Matthews]

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And there are currently no White conferences. There is one conference that encompusses all races.

Oh?

Let me see:

Conference X has an office staff that is classified as Caucasian. All of its clergy are classified as Caucasian. 90% of the Conference membership is Caucasian. In what sense is this not a White Conference.

[Gregory Matthews]

Now, let us talk reality:

I attend a church with a membership of 600+. A while back we hired an African American as an associate pastor. He was the only African-American pastor in our Conference. He did very well and was largely loved by our congregation.

About a year, or less, after we hired him, the position of Senior pastor came open. We made it plain that we wanted him to continue as Associate Pastor, but we voted not to give him the Senior pastor position. He decided that he would have better opportunities to advance if he transferred to a Regional Conference and he did. That proved to be true.

[nuff sed]

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He decided that he would have better opportunities to advance if he transferred to a Regional Conference and he did. That proved to be true.

Which is...the real reason that the "regional brethren" insisted on having their own conferences.........and still do...Nuff Sed

[Woody]

Quote:

Oh?

Let me see:

Conference X has an office staff that is classified as Caucasian. All of its clergy are classified as Caucasian. 90% of the Conference membership is Caucasian. In what sense is this not a White Conference.

I know of no conference who meets your suggestion. The conferences serve everyone in their conference except for the Blacks that have isolated themselves. IF the blacks joined - then the percentages would change. But by definition - none of our conferences are White Conferences - because they serve ALL races no matter the color of their skin.

But my goodness. This is God's church that we are talking about. To suggest that we are somehow a racist church in this day and age --- really is a shame. I simply do not believe it.

[Gregory Matthews]

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I know of no conference who meets your suggestion.

Well I do know of such.

If you do not, I wonder how aware you are.

[Gregory Matthews]

Woody, do you really mean to tell us that you do not know of a Single Conference in the U.S. that has a 100% Caucasian staff?

Unbelievable!

[Gregory Matthews]

You you did not respond to my question: In what sense is the Conference that I mentioned not a White Conference.

Even if Blacks can become members of congregations in the

Conference, if those Blacks are totally sesrved by White pepole, it is a White Conference.

Reminds me of a time when Blacks could not establish businesses in some areas and they could not be employed by the businesses that were established. But, they could patronnize them and spend their money there. It sounds like you would say that is fine as those White businesses served Blacks and accepted their money!

[lazarus]

Which is...the real reason that the "regional brethren" insisted on having their own conferences.........and still do...Nuff Sed

Seems like you have a low view of the motivations of African American pastor's in the SDA church.

How about equality, justice, being better able to win African Americans, freedom in worship, and the development of gifts and talents as their motivations. I guess if might have been better if there had been a split as with most other churches.

[Gregory Matthews]

I personally believe that the issues are complex and cannot be simplified to one. The issues that Lazarus lists are important and valid. But, equality includes equal opportunity, which is valid.

I will suggest that there were complex factors involved in my listing of the African-American pastor who chose to leave the position of Associate Pastor of a 600+ member congregation associated with a so-called White Conference.

He was the only African-American pastor in that Conference. The congration where he pastored only included a couple of African-Americans. Yes, while he was a pastor a few more began attending.

I look at his situation and I wonder: How did he feel in regard to fellowship with others who were walking the same road that he had and was walking? Who did he have to relate to who had walked his path in life? In going to a Regional Conference he could potentially develop some types of relationships that he could not develop as the sole African-American pastor in a White Conference.

It should be noted that the congregation was very pleased with him. Some were very disappointed that he was not given the position of Senior pastor. But, he was young as far as pastoral experience was concerned and the majority did not beleive that he had the experience that they wanted in a senior pastor. But, that majority wanted him to remain as the Associate Pastor.

[Woody]

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Even if Blacks can become members of congregations in the

Conference, if those Blacks are totally sesrved by White pepole, it is a White Conference.

It's high time we put all these racial tensions behind us. We are first and formost God's beloved. Surely we can all get along can't we. In HIS church of all places.

The color of ones skin should not be an issue in God's church.

Let's all praise the Lord.

[Gregory Matthews]

What is the basis for us to put the racial tensions behind uls?

Should it be a master servant relationship?

Perhaps it should be on the basis of equity, equality, justice and fairness.?

IF so, both sides must listen to the other. Injustice must not continue.

Question: Why do we assume that the continuation of Regional Conferences is proof of racial tension? Perhaps it is? But, perhaps, it is not?

In any case, the continuation of the Regional Conferences can not be made until the members of those conferences agree as to what should happen. At this point, they are not united in asking for a change.

[Gregory Matthews]

Due to weather conditions and the close of the church that I normally attend, I visited a small SDA Congregation. This is a small congregation with one pastor, who splits his time with another congregation.

They wanted additional pastoral help, which the Conference was not able to provide. So, the congregation decided that they would hire a 2nd pastor on their own. They hired a Seminary graduate who needed a job and this person ahs been with this congregation for about a year and will get married in June!

I was impressed by this person. I have just sent an e-mail to the Conference telling the Conference that they need to nurture the man and develop him. He belongs in the Conference, as a regular pastor. You see the Congregation is paying his salary and he is a local hire, not a Conference pastor.

During the year that he has been working for the congregation he has increased the congregational attendance in areas that the congregation wanted to go.

By, the way, this student pastor is called an African-American who came into a Caucasion congregation. They hired him and are paying his salary because they believed that he was best qualified to do what they wanted done. HIs racial and ethnic background did not disqualify him from serving them.