Dr. Waite Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 "Does the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and their prophetess Ellen G. White, teach the Biblical, orthodox doctrine of the Trinity? As we will see, the answer to that question is, "No"--despite the fact that the SDA Church now uses the term "Trinity."......... The reality is that Seventh-day Adventism is actually anti-Trinitarian and teaches Tritheism (three gods), just like the Mormons do." see http://www.cultorchristian.com/ Quote grw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 whatever. Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 5, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 5, 2013 Who cares whether others says we are a cult or not as long as we teach what the Bible says? Contrary to what Dr. Waite claims, IT IS a SDA fundamental belief that there is ONE God in THREE distinct persons - Father, Son, & HS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Needing to be getting the approval for being a non -cult by people who can not figure out what the Biblical teaching on basic things like what happens when you die or the Sabbath, is like Medicine needing to get approval to do coronary bypasses from "witch doctors". Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 5, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 5, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Waite Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Who cares whether others says we are a cult or not as long as we teach what the Bible says? Contrary to what Dr. Waite claims, IT IS a SDA fundamental belief that there is ONE God in THREE distinct persons - Father, Son, & HS. Yes, I agree, we should ask what the Bible teaches and we should ask what Jesus, the Son of God, taught. But, we should not teach something that Jesus Christ did NOT teach. Who did Jesus say the "only true God" is? When talking about God, did Jesus refer to one person, his Father, or three persons or a unity of three co-eternal persons? Did Jesus pray to three persons or a unity of three co-eternal persons or one person, His Father? What Jesus taught is referred to his doctrine. What should be done with those who do NOT teach the doctrine of Jesus Christ? II John 9-11 Quote grw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Waite Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 DR. WAITE I AM not sure what denomination you are a member you say we need go by the bible--in JOHN chap 1 verse 1 it says that the WORD was GOD in verse 14 same chap says that the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us who is the WORD JESUS so if JESUS is the WORD and the WORD was GOD then JESUS is GOD just like the FATHER GOD dgrimm60 It does NOT say that the Word was "the God". In Greek, the word "God" in referring to "the Word was God" is an adjective and not a noun. Hebrews 1:8 - In referring to his Son, GOD says "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever". (i.e. God the Father calls his Son "God") Hebrews 1:3 - the Son of God is in the brightness of God and is in the express image of his (God's) person. But, the Son of God is NOT the same person or being as the God referred to in Hebrews 1:1. Quote grw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Waite Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 DR WAITE HEB Chap 1 verse 2 say that GOD THE FATHER has appointed HIS SON as heir and though who all things were made( so JESUS made all things ) in GEN chap 1 verse 1 says in the beginning GOD created all things so if in HEB if the SON OF GOD made all things then the GOD in GEN Chap 1 verse 1 has to be JESUS which the bible says is GOD so then JESUS is GOD dgrimm60 Hebrews 1:4 states that the Jesus who is God was "made" much better than the angels and by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they (the angels). Did Jesus who is God obtain this inheritance by being made better than the angels (Hebrews 1:4) or being made a little lower than the angels (Hebrews 2:6)? Did Jesus who is God obtain his Hebrews 1:4 inheritance by actually being "made" or "begotten" (what the SDA pioneers taught) or by playing the role as a son (something that the SDA trinity doctrine teaches)? Quote grw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted January 5, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 5, 2013 Quote: Who cares whether others says we are a cult or not as long as we teach what the Bible says? Contrary to what Dr. Waite claims, IT IS a SDA fundamental belief that there is ONE God in THREE distinct persons - Father, Son, & HS. There is a difference between a sect and a cult. Classified as a sect, we are considered to be a litigimate part of Christianity. Classified as a cult we are not considered to be Christian. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Who cares whether others says we are a cult or not as long as we teach what the Bible says? Contrary to what Dr. Waite claims, IT IS a SDA fundamental belief that there is ONE God in THREE distinct persons - Father, Son, & HS. Exactly Gerry Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Needing to be getting the approval for being a non -cult by people who can not figure out what the Biblical teaching on basic things like what happens when you die or the Sabbath, is like Medicine needing to get approval to do coronary bypasses from "witch doctors". Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kevin H Posted January 6, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 6, 2013 I can't go into detail now but my underatanding of the trinity are certanly not 3 gods, but one infinate God that breaks into time and space as 3 persons that show 3 aspects of the infinite God: God as all great and powerful, God as our loving personal friend and God working with us individually and subjectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Its funny how this trinity type of debate is active in different religions. You can go to a pagan message board and you will find the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 The only reason Jesus was not called a cult figure, among other perjoratives, when he walked this earth, is because at that time the word cult had not been coined yet. Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted January 7, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 7, 2013 "he Trinity is three divine persons (hypostases) who share one essence (ousia). It is paradoxical to believe thus, but that is how God has revealed himself. All three persons are consubstantial with each other, that is, they are of one essence (homoousios) and coeternal. There never was a time when any of the persons of the Trinity did not exist. God is beyond and before time and yet acts within time, moving and speaking within history." http://orthodoxwiki.org/Holy_Trinity we do believe that the Father and the Son and the Spirit are equally of the same position, and power, essence of being divine, self-existing, and without beginning or end. to consider Christ a merely created being leaves Christ unequal with God and unable to reconcile us to God by his death, since the death of a created being would never be adequate to meet the penalty of death for all mankind and redeem us. Christ was the incarnation of God on earth. we believe Christ will retain His divine human form for eternity, and is now the great Intercessor. When His work as Intercessor is completed he will return to earth and receive us. We will be delivered from our fallen nature and then restored to face to face communication with God. "All things will be made new" the ideas that Jesus was a part of the creation, and was a brother to Lucifer, and on and on are very disturbing to me. These ideas may include the thought that we existed as pure animals until mankind ate of the tree and obtained the power of choice, and evoluted. This would make Satan or the serpent the great benefactor of the human race. debjm Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 7, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2013 Here is the SDA official doctrine. From the book "Seventh-day Adventists Believe" p.16. 1988. "There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation." Fundamental Beliefs, 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted January 11, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 11, 2013 i belief the waco texas incident highlighted david koresh. he was the leader of his cult. he was a former sda man that was very charismatic and lead people away from the church unto himself. He came through my valley recruiting people into his organization. i don't see my church operating as a cult. But i know there are people who do. They believe i do not have my own mind, that i am told what to do in every respect of my life and life style. That i do not make my own decisions. I believe there are people in or out of religion that do depend on others to think for them and they live dependent lives. Just because there are people like this in the sda church doesn't make the church a cult. This is a characteristic of human beings in any culture or religion, and one of the reasons people have to be aware of the reality and danger of cults. there are a lot of books with a lot of information in them in the e. white library giving guidance and knowledge for living well. because of this there are people who say we are a cult. But i have yet to see how this information had ever brought anything but a healthier quality of life. I can see that if someone didn't have their own mind, and didn't think for themselves, and followed all these writings like an automaton... that it would appear cult like. i can see parents imposing things on their kids and controlling them and never encouraging, or allowing them to be their own person. these kids would be vulnerable to cult leaders. i think it is so important to think for yourself and examine what you believe and why. if you never make your own decisions, you never really mature and become your own person. There are many people who say, I am a recovering Baptist, or I am a recover SDA, and some, I am a recovering catholic, because they felt they were always just controlled and never got to have their own mind. This is actually pretty common. deb Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted January 11, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 11, 2013 This idea that we are being controlled and told what to believe and therefore we are all deceived and not real Christians, is also a very common misnomer. I believe the Mormon church is a cult, i believe the Jehovah's Witnesses church is a cult. The early Christian church struggled with the cultural control of Judaism. Jewish Christians lived and held very much in their religious discipline that no longer had purpose. When Christ came to temple service with Sacrificed lambs was no longer the center of the Worship of God on earth. The Gentile Christians struggled with all kind of Jewish norms being imposed on them, and made decisions to separate themselves from that group of Christians. It was deeply held by many Jewish Christians that Christ was not God's divine son until he was adopted at his baptism, and was given a new status at that time. The early church made a clear separation from that view and the clear trinity doctrine was declared. this doctrine has been a point of contention and the precise view of it a source of debate since then. I have always seen the God head as an order of being, with three individuals. one God three persons. Not three different directions of thought that have to debate or discuss to come to common agreement. They are perfect in unity of mind, understanding, knowledge, all seeing, all knowing, and self-existing for eternity. we are limited in our understanding of this. They worked together at creation, they worked together at the birth life and death of Christ, and they work together now for the salvation of man and bringing an end to evil for eternity. this is not a cult belief that results in automatons. deb Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Quote: i believe the Jehovah's Witnesses church is a cult. I'm currently reading a non-fiction book called "Jerusalem - a Biography" by Montefiore. He claims that JW's, like SDA's, have their roots on the Millerite movement. The basic difference is Sabbath vs. Sunday. Although I never heard that before, being a former JW, I see the historic similarities. Need to research more. Anyone else heard that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted January 11, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 11, 2013 Quote: I'm currently reading a non-fiction book called "Jerusalem - a Biography" by Montefiore. He claims that JW's, like SDA's, have their roots on the Millerite movement. The basic difference is Sabbath vs. Sunday. Although I never heard that before, being a former JW, I see the historic similarities. Need to research more. Anyone else heard that? http://www.bible.ca/jw-history.htm the contrasts between sda and jw are extensive and profound. deb Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 debjm, Very interesting link. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulOne Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Me and another person were baptized by mark finly in 1983.the other person goes to church on sunday now and considers the SDA a cult. It is funny when people leave the SDA church,they don,t just leave,they feel a need to trash talk the church and call Ellen White false and all that. Quote Sunday, a child of the Papacy, has taken the place of God's holy Sabbath. As Nebuchadnezzar made a golden image, and set it up to be worshiped by all, so Sunday is placed before the people to be regarded as sacred. This day bears not a vestige of sanctity, yet it is held up to be honored by all. {RH, April 27, 1911 par. 6} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulOne Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I think Jehovah's witness have their own special bible.Every time the bible refers to Jesus as God they say small "g" not big "G". According to Walter Veith they have a modified "King James".Who did the modifying i wonder ?? Quote Sunday, a child of the Papacy, has taken the place of God's holy Sabbath. As Nebuchadnezzar made a golden image, and set it up to be worshiped by all, so Sunday is placed before the people to be regarded as sacred. This day bears not a vestige of sanctity, yet it is held up to be honored by all. {RH, April 27, 1911 par. 6} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 11, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 11, 2013 They have their own translation - "The New World Translation." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Waite Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 DR WAITE you seem to be living in a world of your own... ....JESUS was not a created being you stated in your 1st post about S.D.A. worshiping 3 GODS so then is JESUS A GOD or not??? dgrimm60 I did NOT say that Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son, is a created being. I say that He is God's only begotten Son. Because Ellen White, the Lord's messenger, states that Jesus Christ is God's only begotten Son, do you believe that she means that He was created?? "There is but one way of escape for the sinner. There is but one agency whereby he may be cleansed from sin. He must accept the propitiation that has been made by the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world. The shed blood of Christ cleanseth us from all sin. "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." "Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." A complete offering has been made; for "God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son,"-- not a son by creation, as were the angels, nor a son by adoption, as is the forgiven sinner, but a Son begotten in the express image of the Father's person, and in all the brightness of his majesty and glory, one equal with God in authority, dignity, and divine perfection. In him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." {ST, May 30, 1895 par. 3} Is the Lord's messenger, speaking about the Hebrews 1 Jesus who was made much better than the angels? or Hebrews 2 Jesus who was made him a little lower than the angels? Quote grw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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