When does probation close for SDA?

[phkrause]

i think your probation ends when you die.

I agree with that 100%

[phkrause]

eventually before Christ comes everyone will have made their decision, probation closes for you when your decision is settled.

I agree with you 100% on this too.

[phkrause]

if you are decided for Christ there is no more reason for probation.

I agree to a certain extent. I believe that our probation is certain, not that there is no reason for probation.

[phkrause]

if you have firmly decided against Christ there is no more reason for probation.

Again I agree to a certain extent!

[phkrause]

[Gerr]

An adventist friend told me that the very instant the Sunday Law is passed, probation closes for the SDA who make up the 144,000. Therefore, he claims, if you havn't become perfect and sinless by then, you'll be lost. I don't believe it works quite this way, but don't know where the SOP explains this. Please help!

First, sinless perfection is a hopeless pursuit. The only perfection that can stand scrutiny is the perfection of Jesus. You either have it now or you don't.

Second, while I have not read all of EGW's writings, I am not aware of a statement that says probation will close for SDAs with the enactment of Sunday laws. If you find it, please, give us the reference. Here's what I have read:

National Apostasy Will Be

Followed by National Ruin

When our nation, in its legislative councils, shall enact laws to bind the consciences of men in regard to their religious privileges, enforcing Sunday observance, and bringing oppressive power to bear against those who keep the seventh-day Sabbath, the law of

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God will, to all intents and purposes, be made void in our land, and national apostasy will be followed by national ruin.--7BC 977 (1888). {LDE 133.5}

It is at the time of the national apostasy when, acting on the policy of Satan, the rulers of the land will rank themselves on the side of the man of sin. It is then the measure of guilt is full. The national apostasy is the signal for national ruin.--2SM 373 (1891). {LDE 134.1}

Roman Catholic principles will be taken under the care and protection of the state. This national apostasy will speedily be followed by national ruin.--RH June 15, 1897. {LDE 134.2}

When Protestant churches shall unite with the secular power to sustain a false religion, for opposing which their ancestors endured the fiercest persecution, then will the papal sabbath be enforced by the combined authority of church and state. There will be a national apostasy, which will end only in national ruin.--Ev 235 (1899). {LDE 134.3}

When the state shall use its power to enforce the decrees and sustain the institutions of the church--then will Protestant America have formed an image to the papacy, and there will be a national apostasy which will end only in national ruin.--7BC 976 (1910). {LDE 134.4}

Universal Sunday Legislation

History will be repeated. False religion will be exalted. The first day of the week, a common working day,

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possessing no sanctity whatever, will be set up as was the image of Babylon. All nations and tongues and peoples will be commanded to worship this spurious sabbath. . . . The decree enforcing the worship of this day is to go forth to all the world.--7BC 976 (1897). {LDE 134.5}

As America, the land of religious liberty, shall unite with the papacy in forcing the conscience and compelling men to honor the false sabbath, the people of every country on the globe will be led to follow her example.--6T 18 (1900). {LDE 135.1}

The Sabbath question is to be the issue in the great final conflict in which all the world will act a part.--6T 352 (1900). {LDE 135.2}

Foreign nations will follow the example of the United States. Though she leads out, yet the same crisis will come upon our people in all parts of the world.--6T 395 (1900). {LDE 135.3}

The substitution of the false for the true is the last act in the drama. When this substitution becomes universal God will reveal Himself. When the laws of men are exalted above the laws of God, when the powers of this earth try to force men to keep the first day of the week, know that the time has come for God to work.--7BC 980 (1901). {LDE 135.4}

The substitution of the laws of men for the law of God, the exaltation, by merely human authority, of Sunday in place of the Bible Sabbath, is the last act in

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the drama. When this substitution becomes universal God will reveal Himself. He will arise in His majesty to shake terribly the earth.--7T 141 (1902). {LDE 135.5}

What I see from these passages are:

1. US Sunday law means her cup is full = close of probation for the USA as a favored nation.

2. The close of probation is close for everyone, and

3. The 7 last plagues are soon to fall, and

4. The Second Coming is about to take place.

BTW, Croatia has already enacted a national Sunday law in 2010 that became effected Jan 2011. The German Supreme Court affirmed their national Sunday law. The EU had rejected and EU national Sunday law once, but it should come up again soon. They just need a million signatures for it to come up again.

[Restin]

I've read every answer above; and first of all, am impressed with this SDA forum's ability to have differing opinions without "shouting" and putting eachother down. What a relief from some other forums I've attended!

That said, it's coming back to me why my friend can't be correct in his belief that probation ends for SDA as soon as the Sunday law is pronounced. After the law is made,the public media of TV, Twitter, the national leadership, etc., will be arguing this and taking sides. So, it looks like a lot of conflict will preceed the close of probation. As one of you said, it's in Croatia already (the law, that is). I can't find in "Last Day Events" or Great Controversy, just how many years that will be. But persecution appears to be what will show where we're at, to make our final choice.

Maybe I don't have this exactly right yet, but my friend's viewpoint is grim indeed, and doesn't give God much credit for giving fair warning. The day the Sunday law is announced will be different in China than for America, anyway, and I recall that SOP says it's supposed to be our warning even as the invasion of the Roman army was a sign for God's people in old Jerusalem.

Next time I get on the phone, I should be more ready to answer this question, and more encouraging than I was.

[BobRyan]

1. In Rev 18 - it is the fall of Babylon that brings about the latter rain (loud cry) message of Rev 18:1-5 "Come out of her my people". That Rev 18 power in the loud cry is in fact the Latter Rain.

2. As SDAs we know that the fall of Babylon is reached when she enacts a certain level of Sunday law. Not the ones we have now.

3. This means that the Latter Rain empowered Gospel-to-the-world message goes out at the fall of Babylon, at some form of NSL and at that time it is too late to begin to think about getting ready for the Latter Rain... (at least for SDAs).

4. The problem then is that the quote I showed above - states that it is too late for SDAS to get that latter rain if they have not prepared for it by the time it falls.

Hence the conclusion some of your friends were drawing.

The question you should really be asking yourself is "why isn't this being studied? Why aren't we being warned about this problem?"

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

As our family came together for our evening time of worship I decided to read that quote - that answers the OP of this thread -

=========================

I also saw that many do not realize what they must be in order to live in the sight of the Lord without a high priest in the sanctuary through the time of trouble. Those who receive the seal of the living God and are protected in the time of trouble must reflect the image of Jesus fully. {EW 71.1}

I saw that many were neglecting the preparation so needful and were looking to the time of “refreshing” and the “latter rain” to fit them to stand in the day of the Lord and to live in His sight. Oh, how many I saw in the time of trouble without a shelter! They had neglected the needful preparation; therefore they could not receive the refreshing that all must have to fit them to live in the sight of a holy God. Those who refuse to be hewed by the prophets and fail to purify their souls in obeying the whole truth, and who are willing to believe that their condition is far better than it really is, will come up to the time of the falling of the plagues, and then see that they needed to be hewed and squared for the building. But there will be no time then to do it and no Mediator to plead their cause before the Father. Before this time the awfully solemn declaration has gone forth, “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.” I saw that none could share the “refreshing” unless they obtain the victory over every besetment, over pride, selfishness, love of the world, and over every wrong word and action. We should, therefore, be drawing nearer and nearer to the Lord and be earnestly seeking that preparation necessary to enable us to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord. Let all remember that God is holy and that none but holy beings can ever dwell in His presence. {EW 71.2}

==================================

Question for the group - is this SDA material something for SDAs to study and be informed about - or yet one more message, one more Genesis 2 type warning to be ignored?

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

The day the Sunday law is announced will be different in China than for America, anyway, and I recall that SOP says it's supposed to be our warning even as the invasion of the Roman army was a sign for God's people in old Jerusalem.

She does say it is our sign to leave the cities - she does NOT say it is our sign to get our lives in order and be prepared for the Latter Rain. On that second point she just says "oh how many I saw without a shelter" that come up short when the latter rain falls.

She says "now" is the time that we are warned to engage in "getting ready".

"I saw that none could share the “refreshing” unless they obtain the victory over every besetment, over pride, selfishness, love of the world, and over every wrong word and action. We should, therefore, be drawing nearer and nearer to the Lord and be earnestly seeking that preparation necessary to enable us to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord. Let all remember that God is holy and that none but holy beings can ever dwell in His presence." {EW 71.2}

So then what is the warning for "now" in true "get ready! get ready! Get ready!" fashion?

In a view given June 27, 1850, my accompanying angel said, “Time is almost finished. Do you reflect the lovely image of Jesus as you should?” Then I was pointed to the earth and saw that there would have to be a getting ready among those who have of late embraced the third angel’s message. Said the angel, “Get ready, get ready, get ready. Ye will have to die a greater death to the world than ye have ever yet died.” I saw that there was a great work to do for them and but little time in which to do it. {EW 64.1}

Then I saw that the seven last plagues were soon to be poured out upon those who have no shelter; yet the world regarded them no more than they would so many drops of water that were about to fall. I was then made capable of enduring the awful sight of the seven last plagues, the wrath of God. I saw that His anger was dreadful and terrible, and if He should stretch forth His hand, or lift it in anger, the inhabitants of the world would be as though they had never been, or would suffer from incurable sores and withering plagues that would come upon them, and they would find no deliverance, but be destroyed by them. Terror seized me, and I fell upon my face before the angel and begged of him to cause the sight to be removed, to hide it from me, for it was too dreadful. Then I realized, as never before, the importance of searching the Word of God carefully, to know how to escape the plagues which that Word declares shall come on all the ungodly who shall worship the beast and his image and receive his mark in their foreheads or in their hands. It was a great wonder for me that any could transgress the law of God and tread down His holy Sabbath, when such awful threatenings and denunciations were against them. {EW 64.2}

in Christ,

Bob

[debbym]

i think people are afraid of being extreme if they really believe they need to really take time to prepare for Christ's return.

if you obey God then you are legalistic.

if you believe in God's word and seek to really live by it you must be a cult member.

if you believe in creation, then you are unable to be reasonable and you have no thinking skills.

if you really believe it is time to get ready for Jesus to come, then you need to be poked a bit, ridiculed and woken up.

i have found these things to be how it is. Signs of the times? i think so.

But i trust it is time to get ready to stand for Christ with an undivided heart. It is time to recognize God speaking his word to my heart and listen and give obedience from the heart. I will cherish the Sabbath as inseparable from my relationship to my creator and redeemer. I will respect and love those who see and believe differently from me, knowing nothing can turn God's love away from anyone, no matter what they ever do or say.

debbym

[BobRyan]

Amen! And so it is statements like the ones I posted above that should be brought out of the dark corners where they have been stored for years. It is wise to face the music now - rather than waiting until it is too late and then realize that there are so many things we "should have been doing" now - instead of telling ourselves that our only problem is that we are not Laodicean enough, not contented with our current condition enough, not sleepy enough, not compromised with worldly custom, culture, naturalism, humanism, personal gain - "enough".

in Christ,

Bob

[JoeMo]

Quote:

I will cherish the Sabbath as inseparable from my relationship to my creator and redeemer. I will respect and love those who see and believe differently from me, knowing nothing can turn God's love away from anyone, no matter what they ever do or say.

debbym

Amen, debbym! I don't know if I've ever heard it stated more eloquently. Someone who observes the Sabbath because it enhances her relationship with God - not because she "has to". Someone who sees the image of God in everyone that see. What could be better!