JoeMo Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 There has been recent discussion in the Shout Box about personal attacks based on differences of opinion or personal theology. In the time I have been on CA, I have seen many examples of personal attack rather than respectful discussion. I have probably even been the "attacker" in some cases. Some people have even left or "taken a break" from CA because of being attacked. How can we disagree without being disagreeable? Is there any way we can police ourselves to discourage personal attacks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Attack and Reproof? I'll let God do that kind of work. I don't think we need to do either. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 I don't see that God has prevented some pretty insulting attacks here on CA. It's discouraging to those who are attacked; and a really bad witness to the non-SDA's that are here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I don't see that God has prevented some pretty insulting attacks here on CA. It's discouraging to those who are attacked; and a really bad witness to the non-SDA's that are here. Yes. Due to the Great Controversy Battle going on - it must be shown that God's way is just and good. God will not stop the results of sin. It must be displayed. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 How would anyone appreciate what is just and good ... without witnessing the opposite? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 30, 2013 Members Share Posted January 30, 2013 There has been recent discussion in the Shout Box about personal attacks based on differences of opinion or personal theology. In the time I have been on CA, I have seen many examples of personal attack rather than respectful discussion. I have probably even been the "attacker" in some cases. Some people have even left or "taken a break" from CA because of being attacked. How can we disagree without being disagreeable? Is there any way we can police ourselves to discourage personal attacks? I do agree JoeMo, but the problem is also that when discussing on a forum like this or any other one, we sometimes misunderstand what others are saying! I'd say that's just as bad a problem. Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 30, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 30, 2013 I am seeing debate as a differently-coloured horse from reproof. However they may both end up as and/or be considered as an attack. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted January 30, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 30, 2013 Debate is, properly, about establishing truth through making clear arguments and supporting them through evidence. It ought to be about the ideas rather than the people involved, and to be conducted in a spirit of mutual inquiry and courtesy. It's not something we often see here, unfortunately, but I'd love to see more. Reproof seems to me like something to be done with *extreme* caution. None of us have Jesus' discretion and understanding. The Bible says that *it* is valuable for reproof and correction, but IMO it's better to let it and the Spirit do that, rather than to use it as a club. Too much danger of our own egos getting in the way. As for attack, IMO it simply never has a place here. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 30, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 30, 2013 Debate is, properly, about establishing truth through making clear arguments and supporting them through evidence. It ought to be about the ideas rather than the people involved, and to be conducted in a spirit of mutual inquiry and courtesy. It's not something we often see here, unfortunately, but I'd love to see more. Reproof seems to me like something to be done with *extreme* caution. None of us have Jesus' discretion and understanding. The Bible says that *it* is valuable for reproof and correction, but IMO it's better to let it and the Spirit do that, rather than to use it as a club. Too much danger of our own egos getting in the way. As for attack, IMO it simply never has a place here. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 I second Gail's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I second Gail's Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Debate is, properly, about establishing truth through making clear arguments and supporting them through evidence. It ought to be about the ideas rather than the people involved, and to be conducted in a spirit of mutual inquiry and courtesy. It's not something we often see here, unfortunately, but I'd love to see more. Reproof seems to me like something to be done with *extreme* caution. None of us have Jesus' discretion and understanding. The Bible says that *it* is valuable for reproof and correction, but IMO it's better to let it and the Spirit do that, rather than to use it as a club. Too much danger of our own egos getting in the way. As for attack, IMO it simply never has a place here. Clear and concise, Bravus. Unfortunately, it is all too easy to rush past what one is saying, to make an opposing argument. Even worse, the electronic media of the forums do not allow facial features, gestures, voice inflection, and other points of communication we take for granted face-to-face, further make our word meanings clear. And, also unfortunately, there are some who come here specifically with an ax to grind or to troll (and other ways of disagreeable posting, as well). If attacks are going to be done. then the shout box is not the place to do it. Put it in a thread and back it up. Far better to recognize the value Christ has placed in each one of us, and not attack at all. Blessings! Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Quote: Clear and concise OTOH, Christian attack is often referred to as "stand up" and is a felt humiliation that could have just as easily come from the conviction of the Word expressed as when David expressed himself to Goliath. "For who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God?”... “Your servant used to keep his father’s sheep, and when a lion or a bear came and took a lamb out of the flock, I went out after it and struck it, and delivered the lamb from its mouth; and when it arose against me, I caught it by its beard, and struck and killed it. Your servant has killed both lion and bear; and this uncircumcised Philistine will be like one of them, seeing he has defied the armies of the living God.” ...And the Philistine said to David, “Come to me, and I will give your flesh to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field!” Then David said to the Philistine, “You come to me with a sword, with a spear, and with a javelin. But I come to you in the name of the Lord of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. This day the Lord will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you and take your head from you. And this day I will give the carcasses of the camp of the Philistines to the birds of the air and the wild beasts of the earth, that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel. Then all this assembly shall know that the Lord does not save with sword and spear; for the battle is the Lord’s, and He will give you into our hands.”"Samuel 17:26-47 God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted January 31, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 31, 2013 'Nasty for Jesus', as someone expressed it on Facebook this morning. It's all pretty easy when any pain can be deflected onto the victim as being caused by his/her 'rebellion'... Some thought about Jesus' approach - including when he was harsh and who to - is probably worthwhile.. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Quote: Some thought about Jesus' approach - including when he was harsh and who to - is probably worthwhile.. Was thinking about this the other day.....good thought!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Debate is what happens when people discuss ideas with an open mind and a healthy respect for the other person. Attack is what happens when one person feels that they are superior to the other(s) and can not possibly see that the other persons point may have merit (whether they agree with it or not) See a lot more of the latter around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Quote: Some thought about Jesus' approach - including when he was harsh and who to - is probably worthwhile.. Was thinking about this the other day.....good thought!! Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Often times self gets in the way --- and when I hear an opposing view I take it personally and an attack on MY VIEW. The thing is - I need to put 'self' aside and let each person believe as they believe. It is especially hard in this media where you do not see the person - "attacking" you. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Quote: Attack is what happens when one person feels that they are superior to the other(s) and can not possibly see that the other persons point may have merit (whether they agree with it or not)See a lot more of the latter around here Exactly MT - all to frequently against those who are not members of the conservative SDA community. Your sentiment above is a big part of the reason for this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Quote: Often times self gets in the way --- and when I hear an opposing view I take it personally and an attack on MY VIEW. That's really a good point, Woody! I have been guilty of that myself! Thanks for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Quote: 'Nasty for Jesus' Great expression, Bravus! When I was a hippie growing up in the 1960"s, I had a poster that said "Kill a Commie for Christ"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Often times self gets in the way --- and when I hear an opposing view I take it personally and an attack on MY VIEW. The thing is - I need to put 'self' aside and let each person believe as they believe. It is especially hard in this media where you do not see the person - "attacking" you. I find this bolded part to be a strange definition of "personal attack". By definition debate attacks points of view. There is nothing personal in that at all. There is no other way to show how a point of view isn't Biblical, doesn't work within the larger context of the entire Bible, etc... than to tear it apart piece-by-piece, part-by-part. That's how all of us learn, or at least should learn, as we should do that same thing to our own points of view on a regular basis to find out if what we believe about something is, in fact, true or not. Paul tells us to examine ourselves to see if we are in the truth or not. A big part of that is what we believe for what we believe has a lot to do with our final outcome and whether or not we really are in the faith. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 31, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 31, 2013 That is probably why debate doesn't work so well here. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Would you say that the person who comes here armed with a basket of EGW quotes trying to promote their agenda - is looking for debate? No. They want to promote their agenda. If you try to dialogue with them by adding more EGW quotes or even scripture --- They attack you as not being SDA and run. They don't want their thoughts challenged. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Good points, Woody. I'm glad there are also people here (like you) that share of themselves and try to express some original thought rather than simply regurgitate some words that were given 100 or more years ago. Using temperance in quoting others, and peppering (sorry, I forgot EGW is against pepper)it with your own intelligence is a virtue IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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