A Critical Spirit or an Attitude of Gratitude?

[darlene]

Some time ago I wrote and preached a sermon called "Among the Nine." It was a sermon on having an attitude of gratitude instead of a critical spirit. My introduction was about the 10 lepers that Jesus healed of whom only one returned to thank Him(Luke 17:11-16). In it I used some texts and SOP quotes. I shared that I know of several people who began to critize most everything and every doctrine in the church. Once they began on this they left the church and abandoned Christianity all together never to return.

A couple of the quotes I used were:

Selected Messages Book III pgs 351-352

"They begin to question some parts of revelation, and pick flaws in the apparent inconsistencies of this statement and that statement. Beginning at Genesis, they give up that which they deem questionable, and their minds lead on, for Satan will lead to any length they may follow in their criticism, and they see something to doubt in the whole Scriptures. Their faculties of criticism become sharpened by exercise, and they can rest on nothing with a certainty. You try to reason with these men, but your time is lost. They will exercise their power of ridicule even upon the Bible. They even become mockers, and they would be astonished if you put it to them in that light.

Brethren, cling to your Bible, as it reads, and stop your criticisms in regard to its validity, and boey the Word, and not one of you will be lost."

And one other statement found in Letter 6, 1899:

"If Satan can excite criticism among any of the Lord's professed people, then it is communicated like leaven from one to another. Give the spirit of criticism no quarter, for it is Satan's science. Accept it, and envy, jealousy, and evil surmisings of one another follow.

Press together, is the command I hear from the Captain of our Salvation. Press together. Where there is unity, there is strength. All who are on the Lord's side will press together. There is need of perfect unity and love among believers in the truth, and anything that leads to dissension is of the devil. The Lord designs that His people shall be one with Him as the branches are one with the vine. Then they will be one with each other."

Yes, I think if we spent more time being grateful instead of critical, Jesus would have come already.

"Nothing tends more to promote health of body and of soul than does a spirit of gratitude and praise. It is a positive duty to resist melancholy, discontented thoughts and feelings--as much as a duty as it is to pray. If we are heaven-bound, how can we go as a band of mourners, groaning and complaining all along the way to our Father's house? Ministry of Healing pg 251

Courage, hope, faith, sympathy, love, promote health and prolong life. A contented mind, a cheerful spirit, is health to the body and strength to the soul. "A merry (rejoicing) heart doeth good like a medicine." Poverbs 17:22

Don't we have a lot to be thankful for? Maybe we need to express it more often.........

[jasd]

>>"They begin to question some parts of revelation, and pick flaws in the apparent inconsistencies of this statement and that statement. Beginning at Genesis, they give up that which they deem questionable, and their minds lead on, for Satan will lead to…<<

It is unfortunate that there is no distinction made between criticism per se and critical analysis. If I recall, the author arrived at held doctrines and dogmas through the process of questioning the status quo; it naturally follows that the ‘process’, that is, the questioning of the status quo employed by the author should equally serve those that follow -- meaning you or I.

>>…Satan will lead to…<<

That, given the history of the fathers of apostasy following upon apostasy (clinically speaking) -- is self-indicting.

>>You try to reason with these men, but your time is lost. They will exercise their power of ridicule even upon the Bible. They even become mockers, and they would be astonished if you put it to them in that light.<<

That assertion is precipitous and judgmental. All judgement is given to Christ. It is not Biblical to assume upon Christ’s prerogative as though it has been parceled out -- to anyone. One ought not to either think or to speak so disparagingly of others. Further,

the tenor of the ‘critique’ suggests that others-than-one’s-self are not assisted by the HS in ‘dividing’ Holy Writ. That is presumptuous and hierarchical… the very qualities condemned by many members of the list, as being “Catholic”.

>>Don't we have a lot to be thankful for? Maybe we need to express it more often.........<<

Assuredly, and very apropos.

[darlene]

Yes, jasd, I would agree with you that there is such a thing as critical thinking. However, don't you think that the intention of those who critize Bible teachings are looking for flaws in what the Lord teaches? When I, personally, sit and and try to pick something apart or try to reason with another person's teachings or opinions I am really trying to belittle their thinking or put them down?

I do not believe that we can do that with what the Lord teaches in the Bible. That is putting my own beliefs or opinions above that of God. I would think that is SIN and is very dangerous.

I believe Ellen White's comment that a person who begins to display a critical spirit will develop a very critical spirit. The habit grows just as any other habit does if we dwell on it and feed it. To me that is a very dangerous habit to get into. It grows and grows and grows. Soon you are trapped and cannot change.

[Dr. Shane]

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They begin to question some parts of revelation, and pick flaws in the apparent inconsistencies of this statement and that statement. Beginning at Genesis, they give up that which they deem questionable, and their minds lead on, for Satan will lead to any length they may follow in their criticism, and they see something to doubt in the whole Scriptures.

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Wow! That is powerful.

[jasd]

>>However, don't you think that the intention of those who critize Bible teachings are looking for flaws in what the Lord teaches?<<

I think it might be inappropriate to ascribe to another -- intentions that cannot, of a certainty, be known. Besides, “Bible teachings” can be a tent erected with supports of truly dependable principles or one whose lines often lead, as not, to loose pegs purportedly sustained by Holy Writ.

>>…critize Bible teachings are looking for flaws in what the Lord teaches?<<

The clause above would, of course, turn upon “what the Lord teaches [ed.]” as opposed to mere mortals. Let me remind that all 30-thousand plus of the Protesting .Orgs submit, similarly, that they ‘possess’ the teachings of the Lord. Given that,

one is probably well-advised to search the scriptures -- however that search may be characterized.

One who portrays another’s search for eternal life in a negative and unwarranted aspect… and further characterizes it as Satan-inspired raises, and surely ought to, a wildly flapping red flag. The breath of the HS is, I am convinced, in the raising of that flag.

>>When I, personally, sit and and try to pick something apart or try to reason with another person's teachings or opinions I am really trying to belittle their thinking or put them down?<<

Some might legitimately describe the “picking” process as ‘deconstruction’ -- a valid device in vigorous dialog. Surely, you don’t suggest that it is better to ‘parrot’ (sounds awfully cultic) than to

“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (2 Tim 2:15)

Note the “rightly dividing the word of truth”. I submit that a forum of truly interested parties contribute by challenge or by approbation -- one’s ability to meet the requisites of a “workman”.

>>When I, personally, sit and and try to pick something apart ... I am really trying to belittle their thinking or put them down?<<

It may be so with you; though I suspect it was worded inadvertently. Be assured I am not attempting to belittle the “thinking” of anyone on this list. It is, however, acceptable to critique that which is outside of the list, --that which is of the landscape in the public domain. That said,

I admit to having verbalized ‘belittlements’, but I cannot remember an instance where I’ve initiated an acrimonious exchange. Where I have involved myself, --there were already regrettable exchanges occurring; and, I have responded to that initiated towards me. Hey!

don’t assume that I’m as pristine as Baccarat crystal -- lots of inclusions in my transparency…

>>I do not believe that we can do that with what the Lord teaches in the Bible. That is putting my own beliefs or opinions above that of God. I would think that is SIN and is very dangerous.<<

I really don’t think anyone is putting their own beliefs or opinions above that of the Lord’s. The above quote seems to suggest that we acquiesce to beliefs and opinions that derive from others and may be the result of bad exegesis, biliousness, wrongheadedness, or superstitions.

>>I believe Ellen White's comment that a person who begins to display a critical spirit will develop a very critical spirit. The habit grows just as any other habit does if we dwell on it and feed it.<<

First, is one justified in portraying earnest study of Writ -- a bad habit? Second, considering that Ellen White is invoked in the above statement… is she not the product of the aforementioned spirit, which occasioned the most pronounced schism amongst Xtians? did not that same spirit further depart from the Protesting community?

>>To me that is a very dangerous habit to get into. It grows and grows and grows. Soon you are trapped and cannot change.<<

Is one justified in portraying earnest study of Writ -- a bad habit?

Jude 3 …and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Who has that which was “once delivered unto the saints”? and what is it?

I detect a genuine concern for what might be perceived as an overly critical spirit. It is noted and appreciated.

Lastly, per the topic... I believe that a confession of the mouth, praise, and thanksgiving are three works incumbant upon the believer. All, too often, neglected.

[Guest]

Darlene,

Jesus was the master teacher, so what he says is very valid and has wide application...let me add that

attitude = reality/expectations..

so what transpires in the church is a result of other factors..which many take little time to analyze or have no vision to diagnose.

My very first post on this site, gave some clues as to what prompts some criticisms.

SDA evangelistic outreach endeavors vs the usual weekly presentations and teaching.

[Guest]

Quote:

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darlene said:

Some time ago I wrote and preached a sermon called "Among the Nine." It was a sermon on having an attitude of gratitude instead of a critical spirit. My introduction was about the 10 lepers that Jesus healed of whom only one returned to thank Him(Luke 17:11-16). In it I used some texts and SOP quotes. I shared that I know of several people who began to critize most everything and every doctrine in the church. Once they began on this they left the church and abandoned Christianity all together never to return.

A couple of the quotes I used were:

Selected Messages Book III pgs 351-352

"They begin to question some parts of revelation, and pick flaws in the apparent inconsistencies of this statement and that statement. Beginning at Genesis, they give up that which they deem questionable, and their minds lead on, for Satan will lead to any length they may follow in their criticism, and they see something to doubt in the whole Scriptures. Their faculties of criticism become sharpened by exercise, and they can rest on nothing with a certainty. You try to reason with these men, but your time is lost. They will exercise their power of ridicule even upon the Bible. They even become mockers, and they would be astonished if you put it to them in that light.

Brethren, cling to your Bible, as it reads, and stop your criticisms in regard to its validity, and boey the Word, and not one of you will be lost."

And one other statement found in Letter 6, 1899:

"If Satan can excite criticism among any of the Lord's professed people, then it is communicated like leaven from one to another. Give the spirit of criticism no quarter, for it is Satan's science. Accept it, and envy, jealousy, and evil surmisings of one another follow.

Press together, is the command I hear from the Captain of our Salvation. Press together. Where there is unity, there is strength. All who are on the Lord's side will press together. There is need of perfect unity and love among believers in the truth, and anything that leads to dissension is of the devil. The Lord designs that His people shall be one with Him as the branches are one with the vine. Then they will be one with each other."

Yes, I think if we spent more time being grateful instead of critical, Jesus would have come already.

"Nothing tends more to promote health of body and of soul than does a spirit of gratitude and praise. It is a positive duty to resist melancholy, discontented thoughts and feelings--as much as a duty as it is to pray. If we are heaven-bound, how can we go as a band of mourners, groaning and complaining all along the way to our Father's house? Ministry of Healing pg 251

Courage, hope, faith, sympathy, love, promote health and prolong life. A contented mind, a cheerful spirit, is health to the body and strength to the soul. "A merry (rejoicing) heart doeth good like a medicine." Poverbs 17:22

Don't we have a lot to be thankful for? Maybe we need to express it more often.........

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Think about it...the theme of your mesage was a criticism of those who are ungrateful..which with the 9 out of ten statistic ..means most preople.

This is essentially a put down rebuke sermon.

The early church was full of them..and even the messages to the churches in Revelation were partially like this.

When more sermons go from 2nd person discourses to 3rd person discourses..the attitude climate has a chance to change.

(singular)

I

you

He , she or it

(plural)

We

you,

they

[Dr. Shane]

There is a difference between contrsuctive criticism and destructive criticism. There is also a difference between criticising God's ordained church and criticising those that are criticising God's ordained church.

When we reveiw the story of the Jewish capitives having returned to Jerusalem in Nehemiah 2; 3 & 4 we find their mission was to rebuild the walls of the city. They encountered many critics that tried to discourage them. Some of the critics were actually other Jews themselves. It was only because Nehemiah recognized these critics as enemies and armed his men that the wall was completed.

The Aventist movement has a divine mission more important than rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem. There are many that citisize us and try to discourage us from our purpose. Some are even Adventist members themselves. But like the builders of the walls of Jerusalem, we mustn't listen to them.

[Guest]

Quote:

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It was only because Nehemiah recognized these critics as enemies and armed his men that the wall was completed.

The Aventist movement has a divine mission more important than rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem. There are many that citisize us and try to discourage us from our purpose. Some are even Adventist members themselves. But like the builders of the walls of Jerusalem, we mustn't listen to them.

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Yeah..look at how Nehemiah armed his men. That means equipping and training for confrontation so as to have success for the job at hand.

Is this what the clergy aqre doing? Equipping and training or religiously chewing out the sheeple every week. and then saying...well, God will never leave or forsake you no matter how raunchy and sinful you are??

And the mention of the Laodicean tag..and the calling for repentence like our fearful leader did with 2 Chron 7:14..

We are supposed to be of the spiritual forces of light...our purpose is to establish, strengthen and restore relationships between God and humans..in this endeavor we strive to maximize life, love, freedom and minimize suffering

TRICKLE DOWN IMMORALITY = CRIME AND CLERGY CONNCECTION

[Guest]

darlene,

what you presented is fairly normal...

Personally I would use it as part of a sermon rather than the focus..

it is negative to use it as a theme for a sermon and this is why I rant and get on tirades about CURSED TOPICAL sermons.

When one goes through a passage with a few or several principles..the message is not so offensive..it has more balance and the Holy Spirit can be the shoe salesman and put the correct shoe on the right person.

When one uses a topical sermon..the listener thinks..aw the speaker is talking about me and laying a guilt trip or scolding or the person is daydreaming about Saturday Night Live..because the message is totally irrelevant to their life.

[darlene]

My next question is, "Is what is being said here called constructive critisism or is it destructive critisism, put downs?"

JimBob7 do you think I put the whole sermon here? If so, then you are wrong.

jasd, I think that some of what you have said sounds logical and makes sense, however, by your choice of words, I think you are leading us in circles that are very difficult to follow. You are also taking some of what I said and interpreting it to say things that were not intended.

A grateful attitude is so superior to a critical mind. I believe this is what we all need to strive for because a critical mind really hurts! <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

I read too fast.. I noticed now you said the introduction was from the 9 out of 10..I stand corrected and I do realize you didn't put the whole sermon here..

I would just suggest you stay away from one topic/theme sermons with a potluck type of support or whatever..most people get the point in 3 - 5 minutes.

.that point could be made just in the intro..

A survey in California revelaed that only 17% of people consider themselves thankful..it was taken around Thanksgiving time..

Not saying your sermon was a waste ..

Like I posted a thread once...look how long it takes to read Matt 5-7 the sermon on the mount..and see how multifaceted it is...

let Jesus be your mentor teacher not SDA preachers .

Look on the GC session forum for my post about Jan's closing message..never mind..I will post my comments here..

[Guest]

the criticism is constructive to the humble but destructive to the carnal

[Guest]

OK...I watched and listened to Jan's closing message...

now the first thing I have to say....

THAT WAS...NOT ..A NFDMTTS!!!!!!

DID YOU SEE HOW LONG HE TOOK??

ANY COMPLAINTS.????. I HAVE NONE

OR REGARDING THE LENGTH OF TIME???..HE HELD MY ATTENTION!!!

AND NOTICE HOW HE TOOK THE PASSAGE AND EXEGETED IT AND REVEALED 4 PARTS TO THE PASSAGE...

HUMILITY

PRAYER

REPENTENCE AND REFORMATION

HEAR AND HEALING

Did you notice how he used differnet texts to amplify the principles like Jesus healing in a 2 step mode..and about the vineyard..and then at the end a refernece to Jeremiah?????

He also used EGW at least once...

It was a

CRISP message

clear

relevant

inspiring

spiritual

personal.

Now for a debriefing..

was he wrong to go that long?

that is about how long my former non SDA pastors preach

did you see that it was NOT a one topic sermon??

It was a multifaceted sermon

So what can I say???

if you have a vege-beef with my rant and tirades about NFDMTTS..then take it to the GC...

Jan gave a good example of a competent sermon.

Now I know there were people out in the audience who had itching ears and wanted something more sensational like...

CSI ST LOUIS or Desparate SDA's..I could see from the lack of attention...they are probaly used to 15-20 minute sermons and have the attention span of a Laodicean fruit fly.

I just want to go on record that I was impressed with Jan's message and HOMILETICS.

Thanks again to Denise for pointing me to the link so I could watch this video presentation.

Now..excuse me while I leave to go and pick on the NFDMTTS clergy..

PS..if I ever run into Jan I wil share about this thread and ....also about my disappointment about some of his low bible exposure..articles in the Review.

[darlene]

I'm going to take the liberty of posting another sermon here. It is not mine. It comes from Sermon Central (and JimBob, don't say it is a NFDS or whatever it is you always say because it is and the message is very clear) It is long enough that you can't pick it apart sentence by sentence. I'll will try to shorten it somewhat though.

By Iliff and Saltillo UM churches

“Overcoming a Critical Spirit”

James 4:1-12

Introduction: Grandma used to say, “If you can’t say something good about somebody, don’t say anything at all.” How many have heard that saying? Yet, why do we find it so hard to live up to that old saying? James had his own ideas on the cause of a critical spirit. When he talked to a group of believers who were bickering, fighting and quarreling among themselves and being critical with one another, he said that it was a philosophy of life that is characteristic of the unregenerate mind and that it is a major ingredient of worldliness. Instead of a climate of peace necessary for the production of righteousness, James’ readers were living in an atmosphere that was anything but peaceful. And he boldly comes out and tells them, “I want you to stop it.” In this chapter, he was trying to jar them loose from their selfish way of life that was causing them to find something wrong with everybody and everything.

1. The Problem of a Critical Spirit: Most of the time we don’t even see the seriousness of a critical spirit until it has taken a toll on our spiritual lives and robbed us of our peace. We begin to realize that something is completely out of whack in our lives, but we can’t always put a finger on what it is. Different things may lead to a critical spirit. It may be caused by external things around us or it may come from internal thoughts and motives. James’ readers had fallen into the habit of criticizing one another and in verse 11 James says, “Stop speaking against one another.” He crushes any right his readers may have claimed to sit in judgment over others. He rules out the harsh, unkind critical spirit that continually finds fault with others.

STORY: A bishop was invited to dinner. During the meal he was astonished to hear the younger daughter state that a person must be very brave to go to church these days. “Why do you say that?” asked the bishop.

“Because,” she answered, “I heard Dad tell Mom last Sunday that there was a big shot in the pulpit, the canon was in the vestry, the choir murdered the anthem, and the organist drowned everybody!”

Not only does James speak of the destructiveness of a critical spirit but in Matthew 7:1-5 Jesus said to avoid it. Luke 6:37 says, “do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. verse 38 says for “with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

Paul in Galatians 5:14, 15 says, “Love your neighbor as yourself. If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out for you will be destroyed by each other.”

The main point here is that conflicts and disputes among Christians are always harmful and that we somehow fall into the trap so easily that we don’t realize what is happening.

STORY: A husband and wife were leaving the office of a marriage counselor. The husband turned to his wife as they walked to the car:

“Well, did what the counselor say about being considerate and not criticizing me finally get through your thick skull?”

I don’t think that it did!!!

2. Overcoming a Critical Spirit: James gives us a ten-point way out when we find that a critical sprit has crept into our lives. It is not so important to analyze the cause but to come up with the solution. James is a book that is very practical.

He says first of all that a critical spirit originates out of our own selfishness--wanting to have our own way so much that we will fight to get it. He tells his readers, “This is the way the world thinks--not the way God thinks.” His first point in overcoming a critical spirit is:

1. Submit to God: Submitting to what God’s will was for them was the first step toward resolving the problem. It was the first step toward receiving the grace they needed to overcome the problem. Through saying “OK, God, I will go your way, it brought about the grace or unmerited favor of God that they could quit insisting on their own way and begin to see things in an entirely different light. The Message Bible says, “So let God work His will in you.” By submitting to God--saying OK to what He wants for you, you will be able to see an atmosphere of peace being restored through His grace operating in your life. Proverbs 3:34 says, “he gives grace to the humble”--the quality that helps to overcome the things that pull us down. Submission to God’s will leads to OBEDIENCE. It is not obedience but LEADS TO IT.

2. Resist the Devil: Submission to God is what the devil tries to hinder. He would prefer that we justify our critical actions and statements toward others by saying, “I had A RIGHT to say that.” Matthew Henry says, “Resolution shuts and bolts the door against temptation to be critical.” I RESOLVE to resist the devil and his suggestions.

How do you do this? The Message Bible clarifies this by saying, “Yell a loud NO to the devil and watch him scamper. Say a quiet YES to God and he’ll be there in no time.”

Most of us don’t say a firm NO on questionable things. We say, “Oh, it won’t hurt.” Spiritual unfaithfulness was the result of the devil’s influence. The people in James’ day had drifted so far away from God that they didn’t even realize it. I think that is what happens to us when we don’t make God a priority in our life. When he neglect him on a daily basis, in the little decisions of our life.

3. Draw Near to God: The third way out of a critical spirit was another invitation to draw near to God. It was a response to what God had already done for them. The first step in man’s salvation was taken by God. To DRAW NEAR to God is itself a response to that prior call. Setting their hearts on having their own way, James’ readers have drifted away from God. Have you drifted away little by little this summer making other priorities more important? Come near to God and He will come near to you. In Luke 15:20 the prodigal son “got up and went to his father.” Just the same, God is waiting on our response. The heart that was distant must now become re-acquainted with Him.

These three things seem to be the approach toward God.

Then James comes up with an assignment. He says these require an immediate response. Not a MAYBE SOMEDAY if I GET AROUND TO IT>

STORY: The preschoolers were reciting their memory verse for the week. “Call unto me and I will answer.”

Jill was trying very hard to remember the verse she had been taught. She twisted and turned as she cautiously recited, “Call unto me...” she paused and then hurriedly finished. “...and I will call you right back!”

Too often we say, “I’ll get back to you later.”

4. Wash your hands you sinners

5. Purify your hearts...

These two are a call for repentance--a change of direction. He calls them SINNERS because of the extent of their involvement in worldly attitudes and actions. They were making SIN A HABIT rather than it being an exception to the rule.

Washing your hands symbolizes the OUTWARD actions. He is saying, “Clean up your act.” The Message Bible says, “Quit Dabbling in Sin.” If you are still doing these things, then quit. Change directions. Clean up your conduct.

Along with that he is saying and clean up your INNER thoughts and motives toward others. Purify your hearts as well.

These two things must go together as a package. Psalm 24:4 says, “He who has clean hands and a pure heart--he will receive blessing from the Lord.”

The next four are an emphasis on the SERIOUSNESS OF INTENT:

6. Grieve: repent in misery--be truly sorry for your sins.

7. Mourn: is a passionate grief that cannot be hidden. People will know that you really mean business.

8. Wail: change the laughter into a wail

9. Gloom: joy to gloom

These all indicate the stages of all -out-repentance.

STORY: A man was irritated by his wife’s refusal to admit her hearing problem. Speaking with his doctor one day he asked, “How can I get my wife to admit that she needs a hearing aid?”

“I’ll tell you what you need to do,” his doctor replied. When you get home peek your head through the door and ask, “Honey, what’s for dinner?”

“If she doesn’t answer, go into the living room and say, “Honey, what’s for dinner,”

Then walk into the kitchen and ask, “Honey, what’s for dinner?” “If she still doesn’t answer walk right up behind her and say, “Honey, what’s for dinner? Then you will be able to convince her that she needs a hearing aid.

“Great! I think that will work.”

So he repeats the question as he goes through the house. No answer any of the times.

Then he walked right up behind his wife and spoke directly into her ear. “Honey, what’s for dinner?”

She turned around in a huff and resolutely replied, “For the fourth time, I said WE WERE HAVING SPAGHETTI!!!”

The Message Bible clarifies this a little more by saying,

Hit bottom and cry your eyes out

The fun and games are over

Get serious, really serious

Get down on your knees before the Master. It is the only way you’ll get on your feet.

The tenth one of James’ instructions brings with it a promise of successfully overcoming a critical spirit.

10. Humble yourself before the Lord and he will lift you up. This process will get you back on your feet again. It will restore peace to your life once again. Getting over a habit of being critical is not an overnight happening. It is usually a process that takes time and a serious change of attitude.

CONCLUSION: Do you build people up or tear people down? When you are ready to criticize someone remember God’s law of love and say something good instead. Remember Grandma’s Motto “If you can’t say something good about someone, don’t say anything at all.”

Saying something beneficial will help cure you of fault finding and increase your ability to obey God’s law of love. When we criticize and condemn each other, we are criticizing and condemning God’s law as well as causing a loss of peace for ourselves. I think Grandma’s rule was a good one. So are James’ 10 rules for overcoming a critical spirit.

[Guest]

Hey didn't Thumper say that to Bambi???

[jasd]

darlene,

I agree with the overall tenor of what you are putting forward. I think that sometimes, I tend towards the clinical a bit much. That said,

it appears that Gd desires that, in our affairs, praise/(Judah) lead. It might be easily supposed that gladness or thanksgiving is commensurate with praise.

>>…by your choice of words, I think you are leading us in circles that are very difficult to follow.<<

It would help me if you provide a ‘fer instance’; otherwise, I really must plead ignorance -- please, expand.

>>You are also taking some of what I said and interpreting it to say things that were not intended.<<

Not being cute but --such as…?

>>A grateful attitude is so superior to a critical mind.<<

I submit that it is advantageous to utilize criticality that it might engender the understanding of -- the parameters, which define gratefulness. Without critical examination -- how is it that one arrives at that “grateful attitude”?

“We love Gd -- because He first loved us…” [ed.] (1 Jn 4:19)

“…because He first loved us” being the critical assessment.

>>I believe this is what we all need to strive for because a critical mind really hurts!<<

It “really hurts” whom? It might behoove all of us to revisit the lead post that its content might be reassessed as to just who it is that is ‘criticizing’ (topical paragraph and your comments excepted…)

Umm, I just finished reading your submission…

>>By Iliff and Saltillo UM churches

“Overcoming a Critical Spirit”

James 4:1-12<<

and note that it addresses the critical spirit of the pejorative against the individual. Contrastingly, the lead post this thread seemed to primarily address

>>"They begin to question some parts of revelation, …”<<

the critical spirit vis-à-vis ‘truths in Writ’. It was to this subject, that is, the critical spirit vis-à-vis ‘truths in Writ’ that I most dwelt upon.

Perhaps, you might indicate which “critical spirit” it was wished explored in this thread. Lastly,

I cannot agree that it necessarily “follows” that one who ‘critically’ approaches Holy Writ is, thenceforward, led of Satan to criticize the saints. The commendation of the Bereans comes to mind… Finally,

>>Some time ago I wrote and preached a sermon called "Among the Nine."<<

Good on top you. I can only encourage -- that you should do so often and that you share with us. (one day I may share --'Naaman at Gilgal')

[LifeHiscost]

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darlene said:

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Darlene,

The easiest way I have seen to find a non-critical attitude, is to allow the same freedom for others I experience given me, by the Lord of glory, and He allows me to do anything I want. Any of this world's inhabitants will suffer whatever consequences are sure, from the behavior they allow themselves to abide in. That includes the person that disallows NFDMTTS merely as his/her assessment of the lack of another.

While the proper consequences may not appear as quickly and in the manner we might think is best, those consequences will surely come as will the flood in a stream bed after a summer shower.

Most often the person who is overwhelmed when the flood comes, will see only the results as something "they" don't deserve, since "their" focus has been on how expertly "they" have performed themselves in observations of the lack in others. But unless "they" serve a weakwilled God, Who arbitrarily allows His children to be buffeted by whatever tide happens to come along, the waters that overflow are a direct result of personal previous needs, allowed to accumulate until the need for addressing them could not be safely ignored, for the salvation of others as well as the personal needs of the one gasping for spiritual breath in the flood of trial.

This expose' reminds me of a critique. Is it critical?

Thank God for a Father in heaven who is willing to take me to task rather than allow me to wander on my merry way until the flood overwhelms me to the point of no remedy.

[:"red"] " For whatever a man sows, that and that only is what he will reap."[/] Galatians 6:7 AMP

I know of only one person who believes that to be true. There may be more, but when the chips are down, most of us who have seen victory in our lives, are more apt to point to the flaws in others as the problem, or bow our heads in martyrdom at the unjustness of it all.

[:"red"] "You must submit to and endure [correction] for discipline; God is dealing with you as with sons. For what son is there whom his father does not [thus] train and correct and discipline?" [/] Hebrews 12:7 AMP

This post is not meant to be an indictment of any in particular. More a recognition of the nature of man in general.

Blessings!

[darlene]

jasd, I am really struggling to correlate what I said with what you said. When you pick apart my sentences and give your response, I can't even remember what I meant when I wrote it. It must have something to do with the male mind thought process and how it works. This female mind can't follow it..... <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> How that for clear thinking?!

I do understand though that the sermon "Overcoming a Critical Spirit" that I posted has a different focus than the first sermon with quotes that I mentioned. I think though that both are very important in overcoming a critical focus. We must be very careful of getting caught in the trap of a critical mind, either of being critical of the church and the Bible teachings or the trap of critisizing other people. Both are very negative character traits that will keep us from Heaven.

[jasd]

>>…I am really struggling to correlate what I said with what you said.<<

Don’t pay me no never mind, I dwell in a universe of my own making.

>>It must have something to do with the male mind thought process and how it works.<<

Nahhh, just mine…

>>This female mind can't follow it..... How that for clear thinking?!<<

As is said, Gd made man, discovered it had a ‘broken’ chromosome and promptly set about improving the model… Et voila! woeman ;-)

>>We must be very careful of getting caught in the trap of a critical mind, either of being critical of the church and the Bible teachings or the trap of critisizing other people. Both are very negative character traits that will keep us from Heaven.<< [ed.]

Can’t gainsay the above, …eminently good sense.

[wicklunds]

Yet Paul says to Rebuke and exhort... What will we do when everyone decides that they love the quiet, smooth ride more than rebuking the open sin. Here is a case for wise discernment.

Dennis

[darlene]

It's one thing to rebuke and exhort an action of a person but another to rebuke and exhort the person. I would think these are two completely different things. I would also think it two different things to rebuke and exhort something that arises but to be constantly going around looking for things or teachings to rebuke and exhort is not what Paul means. I don't think God gives to anyone's a life work of constantly rebuking or exhorting anything or anyone. God did not call any of His prophets or teachers to make it a lifework.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

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darlene said:

rebuke and exhort the person. I would think these are two completely different things.

I would also think it two different things to rebuke and exhort something that arises but to be constantly going around looking for things or teachings to rebuke and exhort is not what Paul means.

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REBUKE: to criticize sharply: reprimand; to turn back or keep down: check; an expression of strong disapproval: reprimand

EXHORT: to incite by arguement or advice: urge strongly; to give warnings or advice: make strong appeals

EXHORTATION: language intended to incite and encourage

Except when the Father or Jesus knew there was no hope in His rebukes, for the individuals that needed the rebukes, They both followed the rebukes with exhortations to turn back, and encouragements to do so.

[:"red"] "And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee." [/] Deut 30:1-3

Our Father asks nothing of us that is not for our own good.

To withhold or ignore His advice is to invite the souls destruction.

[:"red"] "Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die." [/] Prov 15:10 KJV

[:"red"] "Those whom I [dearly and tenderly] love, I tell their faults and convict and convince and reprove and chasten [i discipline and instruct them]. So be enthusiastic and in earnest and burning with zeal and repent [changing your mind and attitude]." [/] Revelation 3:19 AMP

[:"red"] "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." [/] Rev 3:19 KJV

[:"red"] "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." [/] Matthew 28:19-21 KJV

In John 15:5 we are told we can do nothing apart from Jesus.

Therefore it follows that success in what He asks of us can only come from inviting Him into our lives.

[:"red"] "So Jesus said to those Jews who had believed in Him, If you abide in My word [hold fast to My teachings and live in accordance with them], you are truly My disciples." [/] John 8:31 AMP

[:"red"] "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed" [/] John 8:31 KJV

[wicklunds]

A question for Darlene..Does the spirit of God, who leads us into all truth give us a greater discernment or does He diminish our snesitivity to the evils that exist around us? Therefore be willing to lose your head for your strong testimony and then we will know where our hearts tend toward.

[darlene]

No, Wicklunds, the Lord's kind of rebuking is not to destroy people but to root out the sin. There is a difference. The Lord loves the sinner but hates the sin. Too often in some of these threads and in rebuking sin we destroy the sinner instead of destroying the sin.