Barbara Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 I wasn't frustrated. I just don't think some people know how much it hurts not to be touched. I went though most of my childhood not being held or told I was love. The only touch from my grand father I cam remember was being thrown against a wall. I didn't know what love of a family was until I was 10 and I was adopted. I think it is foolish to say an adult should not do things such as tickling. Sometime tickling is just the thing to get a child to smile. And a teacher hugging a child and trying to show the child that some one cares may be just the thing that child needs. How many kids do you think come from family like my birth family. The are kids out there just begging to be shown that some one care to touch them. If it was not for may adopted family I hate to think what I would be doing now. I can tell you I would have tried anything and everything I could to fill the emptiness I was feeling. I would wander to neighbor hood and see other kids who had parents that cared where they were and what they did. My grandparents would leave me in the morning and head out for the big city to shop. I was only 7 or 8 at the time. It just amazes me that people can take this one kind of touching and say it is a bad kind of touching cause sexual predators use it. I mean really what kind of touching are we going to says is wrong next. Quote .....Love others as well as you love yourself. Matt 22:39 (The Message Bible) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> I wasn't frustrated. I just don't think some people know how much it hurts not to be touched. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Yeah I do know. I just spent 22 yrs in a marriage where I had to BEG for any kind of touch. But I still think children dont need to be tickled by a babysitter they barely know. (I'll exclude grandma/pa etc. although cases have shown close relations cant be all that safe at times) Quote <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted July 30, 2005 Moderators Share Posted July 30, 2005 I totally agree that appropriate touch is vital. Studies with orphans have clearly showed that. Such is NOT the focus of my comments, which have been limited to one point. Let us look at tickling a little more: a) It produces an involluntary response the causes twitching movements, to include laughter. It is typically uncomfortable to the person being tickled, and the laughter is an involuntary resposne which does not indicatethe inner reality. c) It it typically done on an individual, against that individual's will, and without their permission, by a person in authority over them, or by one who can control them. d) Performed beyond a certain point, it leads to pain, and crying replaces the laughter. e) Healthy adults do NOT typically request that another person tickle them. f) Tickling has been used in torture. g) Tickling is used by abusive men to afflict their wives. They do so because they think that they can claim innocence, and that such is accepted in society. Folks, I could go on. Caregivers of children may need to appropriately touch them. But tickling is never acceptable by anyone, at any time. I can tell you that I would never allow a caregiver to tickle children of mine. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Yes some people can carry tickling to far but it still doesn't mean tickling is bad. I know when to stop tickle and so does any smart person. I will contune to tickel my kids and let them tickle me to during our play. Quote .....Love others as well as you love yourself. Matt 22:39 (The Message Bible) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Apparently you have had a bad experience with tickling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Quote: I totally agree that appropriate touch is vital. Studies with orphans have clearly showed that. Such is NOT the focus of my comments, which have been limited to one point Gregory, While I agree with your comments in regard to strangers, unfamiliar aquantinces, I do question your absolute statements regarding tickling and I requote as an example from your last post- Quote: Folks, I could go on. Caregivers of children may need to appropriately touch them. But tickling is never acceptable by anyone, at any time. I can tell you that I would never allow a caregiver to tickle children of mine. [emphasis is mine] Since I made the origional comment in regards to a school boardmember accusing a teacher who was rough housing/tickling a student in the presencs of the parents, your comments regarding tickling in an appropriate/approved setting came accross as a bit extreme. Perhaps for your family that may be acceptable...But in an approved parental setting, tickling by non-family approved members can communicate love and acceptance. We all have children in our lives who, if tickled, will repeatedly want to be tickled by us. It is a natural and fun and reassuring activity done by family members and approved non-family member. And true, as we grow older, tickling is become interpreted a bit differently...It is used by lovers to communicate positive intimate communications. This is the area that is addressed primarily by you, while I am tallking about younger people in general. And yes, while there are pediphiles and weird people out there seeking to exploit our children, I am talking about the general useage, in everyday communication, the fun that we had when we were children, that is,...tickling is something that is good. When used appropriately, it communicates humanity, fun, laughing, and a positive form of excitement. If you don't make more positive comments in this area, I think you could be seen as a bit extreme and have gone a bit overboard in safety to the point that it is better to never have friendly touch at all,...which is a very lonely position for the young individual and can set that individual latter in life up for a dysfunctional relationship where it is a turn on to be touched, or to fearful to touch at all. It seems to me that there is a NORMALCY that you are crossing in your advocation of "do not tickle". Honestly, Gregory, the way you are posting over the issue of tickling is the same way SDAs [used to] think of sex. [That it's a bad thing]. And truth be told, it's God approved, God made, and when it is used appropriately, a very effective and extremely pleasent form of communitication. This is my observation, right wrong or bad. And I hope I am not out of line in pointing out how it is coming across. And what I am attempting to make a stand on here is that not all tickling is bad. In fact, most of it is down right good. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted July 31, 2005 Moderators Share Posted July 31, 2005 Neil, your are entitled to your opinion. I stick by mine. No, in no way do I say that children should not be touched. As I stated, studies shows that they should. But, tckeling often quickly becomes inappropriate. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Are you saying that any type of touch that can become inappropriate we should no longer do. Quote .....Love others as well as you love yourself. Matt 22:39 (The Message Bible) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted August 1, 2005 Moderators Share Posted August 1, 2005 No, I am not saying that any touch that can be inappropriate should not be done. I am saying that tickling is in a catagory of its own. I am saying that tickling is so often abuse that it should not be done. I will not say that 100% of tickling is abusive. But, it is border-line and should not be done. For my reasons, read my post 182369 on this page. Those are my reasons. Disagree with them if you want. But, those are the reasons why I have taken this position. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny J Goff Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 Thanks for your thoughts. . .but I don't agree. . .your experience is a good reason for having questions on tolerance. . .think about it. . . Quote It's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny J Goff Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 I agree. . .if the offender objects to checks and balances. . .it is a good indicator of health. . . Quote It's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny J Goff Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 Indeed. . . "Forgive but not forget". . .not here on this planet. . .the offender will have to deal with God on a one to one basis regarding his actions (as we all do!) it's not our job to determine guilt or innocence. . not in todays world. . if the court system has determined guilt WE MUST ABIDE BY THIS to protect 1) The abused 2) The Church Family 3) The reputation of the Church at large. . . Quote It's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Quote: Amelia said: Yeah I do know. I just spent 22 yrs in a marriage where I had to BEG for any kind of touch. But I still think children dont need to be tickled by a babysitter they barely know. (I'll exclude grandma/pa etc. although cases have shown close relations cant be all that safe at times) I spent 18 years in one Amelia... and I'm still married to him... but True Jesus has even begun the healing in THAT part of our marriage as well. ((((((Amelia)))))) I empathize dear lady. It is a horrible way to have to live. Nor a way anyone in a marriage, at any time, for any reason, was intended by our loving Creator to live. A healthy marriage, a holy marriage is His selected example for His relationship with us as His church. And that includes touch and intimacy. Excellent self-care of Abba Father's daughter Amelia to correct that. Clio Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny J Goff Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 Interesting that we are now hypocrites. . . a little broad swath to be proclaiming. . .you might want to pull out the dictionary and find out the meaningof the claim. . . Quote It's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 We could go back and forth on this subject and never change each others mind. You have you ideas about tickling and I have mine. Thank you for share your reasons against tickling. I do limit my tickling to family members only cause I only have family members babysit Quote .....Love others as well as you love yourself. Matt 22:39 (The Message Bible) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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