Is Spiritual Formation taking over the SDA Church?

[Planey]

...like marital arts training.

No-one told me this was available before I got married.

Hmmmm.

Graeme

[debbym]

In 1995 in college place washington at the adventist walla walla valley sda academy, a Richard Foster seminar was held, and i attended.

Richard foster is a guru the core leader of the emergent church/spiritual formation movement in the usa.

it was attended by a healthy representation of every major denomination in our area, baptist, pentecostal/charismatic, catholic, presbyterian, methodist, adventist, and perhaps others i do not know. The large auditorium was packed.

we were taught what "true' ecumenism was. It was entitled renovare. and i got mail from them for about 10 years afterwards, which i assumed was asking for money so i usually never opened them read them through. one i read was a list of seminars being held and the schedule.

there were presentations then we broke into small groups to process the information.

i was not in church at that time, so i just took it in and thought about it over the years.

this is the info on the very attractive website thirteen years later.

Quote:

WHO WE ARE

Renovaré is a nonprofit Christian organization headquartered in Englewood, Colorado, and active worldwide. We seek to resource, fuel, model, and advocate more intentional living and Spiritual Formation among Christians and those wanting a deeper connection with God. A foundational presence in the Spiritual Formation movement for over 20 years, Renovaré is Christian in commitment, ecumenical in breadth, and international in scope.

Renovaré promotes a Balanced Vision and Practical Strategy of spiritual renewal to encourage individuals and churches to develop renewed, sustainable, and enriched spiritual lives. Read our Mission Statement, Vision Statement, Covenant, and Core Ideas.

We were founded in 1988 by Celebration of Discipline author Richard J. Foster. Please have a look around, and learn more about spiritual formation, who we are, and what we do.

I attended one of Richard foster's seminars on his ecumenism and spiritual disciples in '95.

He is strong on the contemplative prayer, new theology and all of it.

The five disciplines,

1. Social justice (adra, religious liberty law office, domestic violence shelters),

2. Spirit led life (Holy sanctified living),

3. Bible study (Sabbath school, daily devotions),

4. Evangelism (sharing Jesus every day, and doing evangelism projects),

5. Mediation...(meditate on the the life of Christ an hour every day),

are all found in the sda church,.

He suggests we need to find them as expressed in all of the denominations, bring those denominations together to experience the five disciplines. This he says is the true way to live a balanced Christian life. This contemporary ecumenism.

Catholic - social justice,

Charismatics -spirit led life,

Baptists -bible study

Evangelicals, Billy Graham -evangelism

Mennonites -meditation contemplation now contemplative prayer and the silence, experiencing the presence.

not correct, but powerful.

he has inspiration to create a phenomenal Christian experience that is mystical, and engaging, warm, attractive, and rich.

But it is not centered in Jesus, it is centered in feeling good, and relieving suffering, without Christ, in the name of Christ.

Like Sunday worship, it is a feel good day, a way of forgetting God that passes for a way of remembering Him.

This does not mean they own these terms. Spiritual discipline is wonderful, to contemplate in prayer is wonderful, to be fresh in your theology is wonderful etc.

but it is not wonderful to become encased in a spiritual experience that feels so wonderful, but it is centered in ones self in the name of Jesus.

We can do all of this now while being a good SDA member too.... since it is being established in our church, for those who choose it.

The Holy Spirit speaking the word of God alone can help us deal with deception the very moment we are willing, He is there.

[Reddogs]

IMO, Willow Creek is much tamer than Global Awakening or Global Mission Awareness.

Well you haven't seen a church which is cleansed of teaching, no belief, no doctrine, no foundation, and people are brought in but not converted. It soon turns into a different type of place that is not following God.

[Reddogs]

In 1995 in college place washington at the adventist walla walla valley sda academy, a Richard Foster seminar was held, and i attended.

Richard foster is a guru the core leader of the emergent church/spiritual formation movement in the usa.

it was attended by a healthy representation of every major denomination in our area, baptist, pentecostal/charismatic, catholic, presbyterian, methodist, adventist, and perhaps others i do not know. The large auditorium was packed.

we were taught what "true' ecumenism was. It was entitled renovare. and i got mail from them for about 10 years afterwards, which i assumed was asking for money so i usually never opened them read them through. one i read was a list of seminars being held and the schedule.

there were presentations then we broke into small groups to process the information.

i was not in church at that time, so i just took it in and thought about it over the years.

this is the info on the very attractive website thirteen years later.

Quote:

WHO WE ARE

Renovaré is a nonprofit Christian organization headquartered in Englewood, Colorado, and active worldwide. We seek to resource, fuel, model, and advocate more intentional living and Spiritual Formation among Christians and those wanting a deeper connection with God. A foundational presence in the Spiritual Formation movement for over 20 years, Renovaré is Christian in commitment, ecumenical in breadth, and international in scope.

Renovaré promotes a Balanced Vision and Practical Strategy of spiritual renewal to encourage individuals and churches to develop renewed, sustainable, and enriched spiritual lives. Read our Mission Statement, Vision Statement, Covenant, and Core Ideas.

We were founded in 1988 by Celebration of Discipline author Richard J. Foster. Please have a look around, and learn more about spiritual formation, who we are, and what we do.

I attended one of Richard foster's seminars on his ecumenism and spiritual disciples in '95.

He is strong on the contemplative prayer, new theology and all of it.

The five disciplines,

1. Social justice (adra, religious liberty law office, domestic violence shelters),

2. Spirit led life (Holy sanctified living),

3. Bible study (Sabbath school, daily devotions),

4. Evangelism (sharing Jesus every day, and doing evangelism projects),

5. Mediation...(meditate on the the life of Christ an hour every day),

are all found in the sda church,.

He suggests we need to find them as expressed in all of the denominations, bring those denominations together to experience the five disciplines. This he says is the true way to live a balanced Christian life. This contemporary ecumenism.

Catholic - social justice,

Charismatics -spirit led life,

Baptists -bible study

Evangelicals, Billy Graham -evangelism

Mennonites -meditation contemplation now contemplative prayer and the silence, experiencing the presence.

not correct, but powerful.

he has inspiration to create a phenomenal Christian experience that is mystical, and engaging, warm, attractive, and rich.

But it is not centered in Jesus, it is centered in feeling good, and relieving suffering, without Christ, in the name of Christ.

Like Sunday worship, it is a feel good day, a way of forgetting God that passes for a way of remembering Him.

This does not mean they own these terms. Spiritual discipline is wonderful, to contemplate in prayer is wonderful, to be fresh in your theology is wonderful etc.

but it is not wonderful to become encased in a spiritual experience that feels so wonderful, but it is centered in ones self in the name of Jesus.

We can do all of this now while being a good SDA member too.... since it is being established in our church, for those who choose it.

The Holy Spirit speaking the word of God alone can help us deal with deception the very moment we are willing, He is there.

It has become much more intense, and Adventist pastors are picking it up and spreading it throughtout the church and implementing the Willow Creek model, which keeps you busy doing things but no true spiritual food or truth is given.

[ClubV12]

I wonder if this is something you find only in the larger Churches? Thats where I've seen it, not at all have I seen it in the smaller Churches. All though, NO Church is immune to error of some kind.

The path or error often lays very close to the path of truth. And often it is difficult to find counselors that have enough knowledge to spot the difference.

Sister White said once the determination has been made and error identified you will see it so clearly you will wonder how you could have possibly missed it! This has been my experience, once it's seen, it's obvious.

[Naomi]

Yes Club, must agree and I do believe it is more often found in larger metro churches. Small rural churches are not as likely to pickk up on newer modern ideas. Yet, it can happen!

Quote:

Sister White said once the determination has been made and error identified you will see it so clearly you will wonder how you could have possibly missed it! This has been my experience, once it's seen, it's obvious

So true!

[Tom Wetmore]

I am puzzled by the observation that it is not Christ centered since as you aptly described, it is very similar to the traditional areas of emphasis practiced by Adventists. It seems to me that if it fails for lack of being Christ centered, Adventism is seriously at risk for the same problem. We must recognize that we very often substitute our own version of the very same problems that we criticize in others and really are not so different after all. While it seems that a major criticism is that it is a "feel good" movement, but we simple get to that same result by a different path called healthful living. And We substitute doctrinal discipline for spiritual disciplines.

Adventists are very good at criticisms of others but not so good at self analysis, introspection or critically understanding the criticism of ourselves.

[debbym]

Quote:

It has become much more intense, and Adventist pastors are picking it up and spreading it throughtout the church and implementing the Willow Creek model, which keeps you busy doing things but no true spiritual food or truth is given.

i totally agree, but it started with, go to all the churches and learn from each denomination the spiritual discipline they have that is their core strength, learn it from them. Add all these together to have the complete balanced Christian walk.

and we know their is no light in the fallen churches to lead us.

and now it is developing further as this direction is being followed more and more.

as adventists, it seems we have looked at ourselves and said, i am just not perfect like i am supposed to be. I just don't have the wonderful Christian walk i want to have. i think those other churches have what i need, and then going there, the standard is lowered to their standard then suddenly we can start feeling good about ourselves, and not worry any more about how we are just not measuring up.

when we should be looking to Jesus and not at ourselves in the first place.

i am content to look to Jesus and see that i do not measure up, i pray i will always be able to see this, and always be depending on him more and more fully. May i always deeply feel and know my need of God.

It is God who is doing the work in us, it is God who made us, not we ourselves. He that hath begun a good work in you will finish it.

[debbym]

Quote:

And We substitute doctrinal discipline for spiritual disciplines.

Adventists are very good at criticisms of others but not so good at self analysis, introspection or critically understanding the criticism of ourselves.

using a technique rather than faith to approach God does not correlate to the difference between doctrinal discipline and spiritual discipline.

this is not a criticism of others, it is a discernment of spirit.

as for self analysis, when the Holy Spirit reveals to me the nature of my heart, and the holiness of God, i have no lack of understanding who and what i am and i have something more of who God is.

"critically understanding the criticism of ourselves..." hmmmm

we need this eh? we have a shortage of this? tell me more about this.

[M. T. Cross]

I am puzzled by the observation that it is not Christ centered since as you aptly described, it is very similar to the traditional areas of emphasis practiced by Adventists. It seems to me that if it fails for lack of being Christ centered, Adventism is seriously at risk for the same problem. We must recognize that we very often substitute our own version of the very same problems that we criticize in others and really are not so different after all. While it seems that a major criticism is that it is a "feel good" movement, but we simple get to that same result by a different path called healthful living. And We substitute doctrinal discipline for spiritual disciplines.

Adventists are very good at criticisms of others but not so good at self analysis, introspection or critically understanding the criticism of ourselves.

The highlighted text there marks what I find to be the most perplexing thing about Adventists......

Does it all have to be somber and solemn? Filled with fear and paranoia, battling against the darkness?

Why is anything that makes you feel spiritually good automatically on the radar as a possible threat?

You claim to worship a God of love, the great creator of the universe and all the beauty it holds. A God that created us with the ability to think, to reason, to explore and question, yet so many want to turn away from the possibilities of reaching out to this God using the abilities he gave us.

Baffles my mind.

[JoeMo]

Below are some quick responses to several of the above posts:

Quote:

I do believe it is more often found in larger metro churches

Not necessarily. There are several churches around here with less than 100 members that are charismatic (I'm assuming charismatic is the same as spiritual formation). Our church had 25 members when we took that path.

Quote:

Well you haven't seen a church which is cleansed of teaching, no belief, no doctrine, no foundation, and people are brought in but not converted

That is true. I have been to some charismatic churches that are more strict (when it comes to the law) than your average SDA church. Our church started in the charismatic direction when a group of charismatics from another church - sick of the lack of bible teaching- came asking us for Bible studies (they knew SDA's were people of the book) in exchange for them teaching us about spiritual gifts. It ended up with us being dismissed from the conference; but on an amazing spiritual adventure, nonetheless. So we are know a bunch of Sabbath-keeping non-denominational (basically SDA in culture) charismatics.

Quote:

Adventists are very good at criticisms of others but not so good at self analysis, introspection or critically understanding the criticism of ourselves.

That is so true, Tom. We see that here on CA a lot, too.

Quote:

Quote:

While it seems that a major criticism is that it is a "feel good" movement...

The highlighted text there marks what I find to be the most perplexing thing about Adventists......

Does it all have to be somber and solemn? Filled with fear and paranoia, battling against the darkness?

Why is anything that makes you feel spiritually good automatically on the radar as a possible threat?

You claim to worship a God of love, the great creator of the universe and all the beauty it holds. A God that created us with the ability to think, to reason, to explore and question, yet so many want to turn away from the possibilities of reaching out to this God using the abilities he gave us.

Baffles my mind.

WOW, you have great insight, MT. I have expressed that same sentiment many times here on CA (and I think you and I have discussed the same on PM); but I don't remember ever seeing it expressed so eloquently.

Quote:

For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he (Prov. 23:7)

Even though a quote from scripture, I don't think it applies to Judeo-Christians alone. Even secular psychologists say the equivalent to this. If I think about my unworthiness and constantly sulk in guilt and self-condemnation , I will not be a pleasant person. The only comfort I will get is in seeing people more guilty and "condemned than me.

Fellowship with one's deity should be joyful and uplifting; not morose and fearful.

[M. T. Cross]

If I think about my unworthiness and constantly sulk in guilt and self-condemnation , I will not be a pleasant person. The only comfort I will get is in seeing people more guilty and "condemned than me.

Fellowship with one's deity should be joyful and uplifting; not morose and fearful.

Exactly, and to further that, when a person lives a life of celebration, love and seeking the good in things, then that light shines through, its infectious and uplifting. These are the thoughts that go into my meditations and prayers. That the light I shine will reflect the light of those deity I honour. That is not to say that I look at life through rose coloured glasses and only see sunshine and rainbows. Being aware of dangers and negativity is important, but its all about where you choose to put your focus.

Conversely, If one sits around in self condemnation, fear, and judgement of others and everything, then they are also setting an example of the influence of the deity they honour.

Maybe the difference is in the terminology. Some worship, some honour. I think those that worship may possibly be more prone to seeing the darkness, where those that seek to honour are more prone to try and show light.

[phkrause]

Even though a quote from scripture, I don't think it applies to Judeo-Christians alone. Even secular psychologists say the equivalent to this.

I absolutely agree JoeMo, Scripture applies to all

[phkrause]

If I think about my unworthiness and constantly sulk in guilt and self-condemnation , I will not be a pleasant person. The only comfort I will get is in seeing people more guilty and "condemned than me.

Unfortunately this is really true in more cases than we would like to admit. I believe one reason this happens, is because as we get closer to our Lord and Savior we tend to see how we look compared to Jesus. He died for us and I think we feel guilty about that.

[ClubV12]

Knowledge of the truth isn't a blessing if your not heart converted, it's a curse. The fruits of the spirit, love, joy, peace are missing and will not be found. Everything becomes a burden. All those rules and laws of Ellen White become suffocating. The rules and laws of the Church, oppressive. It's a terrible fate really, to know the truth and be tortured by it. Yet this is the fate of many within the Church and of those who have left. It has driven some to madness and that will continue. It is impossible to rectify a knowledge of the truth, try to put it out of your mind and return to society as if nothing happened. Or continue to go to Church, as if nothing happened.

Unfortunately, I don't have much to offer many of these souls. What can you tell them they don't already know? I don't know how to reach Laodecia, at times, I have to look at my own life and remember, I might be that person I've warned others about!

[Reddogs]

I wonder if this is something you find only in the larger Churches? Thats where I've seen it, not at all have I seen it in the smaller Churches. All though, NO Church is immune to error of some kind.

The path or error often lays very close to the path of truth. And often it is difficult to find counselors that have enough knowledge to spot the difference.

Sister White said once the determination has been made and error identified you will see it so clearly you will wonder how you could have possibly missed it! This has been my experience, once it's seen, it's obvious.

The Willow Creek church growth model isn't as sucessfule in the smaller churches for obvious reasons. You have no place to expand, the smaller churches tend to have long time church board members, and they usually are older buildings which are as appealing. Think Crystal Cathedral, with thousands of members and plenty of space to expand...

[debbym]

charismatic is absolutely not the same thing as emergent church/spiritual formation.

it is a much more sophisticated refined elegant experience that is the affirmation to those experiencing it that they are God's child.

it is similar in that those who experience "the presence" relate to it in a similar way to charismatics. It is the assurance, the proof and evidence to them that they are In God's favor and his children.

if they did not experience "the presence", if going into the silence was not a tremendous experience, and if charismatics did not experience the euphoria, the flood of "the spirit", and for some the tongues, they would lose interest. They are in command of choosing these experiences, and they do keep choosing them.

I am not in command of God's Spirit, and i cannot just make God's Spirit give me this wonderful experience. I cannot summon God's spirit or command it. I cannot make it bless me with an experience by any form of prayer or discipline.

If these sensations and manifestations all stopped, what would keep them going on it.

and no spiritual formation is not taking over the sda church.

[Reddogs]

charismatic is absolutely not the same thing as emergent church/spiritual formation.

it is a much more sophisticated refined elegant experience that is the affirmation to those experiencing it that they are God's child.

it is similar in that those who experience "the presence" relate to it in a similar way to charismatics. It is the assurance, the proof and evidence to them that they are In God's favor and his children.

if they did not experience "the presence", if going into the silence was not a tremendous experience, and if charismatics did not experience the euphoria, the flood of "the spirit", and for some the tongues, they would lose interest. They are in command of choosing these experiences, and they do keep choosing them.

I am not in command of God's Spirit, and i cannot just make God's Spirit give me this wonderful experience. I cannot summon God's spirit or command it. I cannot make it bless me with an experience by any form of prayer or discipline.

If these sensations and manifestations all stopped, what would keep them going on it.

and no spiritual formation is not taking over the sda church.

Well you will have to see the churchs in other parts of the country, in the large metropolitan areas it is being brought in by the Adventist pastors themselves who have gone to Willow Creek and Spiritual Formation and Spiritual Discipline, so check first.

[lazarus]

The Willow Creek church growth model isn't as sucessfule in the smaller churches for obvious reasons. You have no place to expand, the smaller churches tend to have long time church board members, and they usually are older buildings which are as appealing. Think Crystal Cathedral, with thousands of members and plenty of space to expand...

Very often no church growth model would work because the church is not interested in grow. Sometimes those long time church members want to see the church as "theirs" and new people are now welcome if they are cultural or otherwise different.

Churches that have small buildings but are growing move, build etc. Many big churches used to be small churches.

[lazarus]

Well you will have to see the churchs in other parts of the country, in the large metropolitan areas it is being brought in by the Adventist pastors themselves who have gone to Willow Creek and Spiritual Formation and Spiritual Discipline, so check first.

Willow Creek is so 1980's /90' I think many of us pastors have moved on from there.

[Gregory Matthews]

I have been in touch with the Director of Adventist Chaplaincy Ministries, in the NAD & the General Confereance.

I have been assured that ACM does not now and never has advocated Spiritual Formation in the sense of the negative aspects that are attached to it.

Spiritual Formation is defined in many ways. There are those who have used that term in the Biblical sense of growing in Christ. ACM has, as does the SDA Church in general, advocated a spiritual life of growth in Christ.

This is not directed at anyone in particular.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

If these sensations and manifestations all stopped, what would keep them going on it.

I respectfully disagree, Deb. (You know I respect you). I have long dry spells where I experience no manifestation whatsoever.That doesn't stop me from seeking His presence. Just the mere memory of them makes my heart soar.

Quote:

I am not in command of God's Spirit, and i cannot just make God's Spirit give me this wonderful experience. I cannot summon God's spirit or command it.

I agree I am not in command of God; nor can I make Him manifest Himself. But I can ask. Sometimes He says "yes" and sometimes He says "not now" (when He say "yes it's pretty cool). I'm totally ok with that. If God never manifested Himself to me again, by His grace, I would still serve Him.

By His grace, I primarily seek the Giver, not the gift. That is emphasized by most of the "balanced" charismatics I know. Of course, there are those that claim that unless you speak in tongues, you really haven't been born of the Spirit. I don't agree with that position.

[Reddogs]

Originally Posted By: Reddogs

Well you will have to see the churchs in other parts of the country, in the large metropolitan areas it is being brought in by the Adventist pastors themselves who have gone to Willow Creek and Spiritual Formation and Spiritual Discipline, so check first.

Willow Creek is so 1980's /90' I think many of us pastors have moved on from there.

The pastors are now teaching it right in the churchs as Adventist made a great number of those going to the seminars. The seeds were sown then, and the Spiritual Formation/Discipline weeds are coming up now.

[aldona]

It seems to me that a lot of people tie stuff up in terms and labels, looking for danger all the time rather than simply learning to love their God.

I see warnings of ritual. Do you pray before you eat? Pray when you wake up? Pray before you sleep? That is ritual. If you go to church, you will find things are done in the very same order every week - ritual. Ritual is important and it is dangerous as well. It can be used to set your mind frame in a place where you are ready to worship and focus on worship and learning alone, and it can also cause people to become complacent and just go through the motions.

Meditation. I do not see what people are so very afraid of. You are taking time to contemplate and think on the message of your God. Letting it become a part of you, truly opening yourself to it so that it can be a light that shines from you. There seems to be so much fear that if you meditate you are opening up to "evil" influences. Is your God not powerful enough to ensure that if you meditate on his word wit pure intent you will be safe from any message that is not of him?

All this business about mysticism.... it seems to me that if a person does anything to actually develop a one to one relationship with the biblical God its going to get called mysticism. Yet we have the examples of the trance states EGW went into, Jesus fasting in the desert ( you can bet he was in a different mind frame by the end of that. Why are people so very scared of anything that takes you past the books, words written by men and women, and directly to the source? You all want to spend eternity with this divine being, yet you are terrified of getting to know him now it seems.

Thank you - you have expressed beautifully just what I was thinking. (or in Quaker-speak = "This Friend speaks to my condition.")

AJ

[Reddogs]

I have been in touch with the Director of Adventist Chaplaincy Ministries, in the NAD & the General Confereance.

I have been assured that ACM does not now and never has advocated Spiritual Formation in the sense of the negative aspects that are attached to it.

Spiritual Formation is defined in many ways. There are those who have used that term in the Biblical sense of growing in Christ. ACM has, as does the SDA Church in general, advocated a spiritual life of growth in Christ.

This is not directed at anyone in particular.

Yes and I asked the Florida Conference the same thing and I have yet to get a answer, so need to check what is actually happening in the field.