Adverse drug reactions

[Guest]

A study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association reported that adverse drug reactions accounted for more than 2.2 million serious cases and over 100,000 deaths, making adverse drug reactions (ADRs) one of the leading causes of hospitalization and death in the United States.

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Exactly what are Adventist doing in their hospitals that is different from the public at large? At one time Adventist MD were trained to never administer drug medication, do those today caught up in this lifestyle ever ponder their roots & what heaven thinks of their behaviour?

[Gregory Matthews]

The study is accurate. The figures are accurate. People die due to medical care, whether it is pharmacy, or other medical care.

Here are some valid questions:

1) What is the number that would have died if the pharmacy had not been given. Pharmacitical produces save lives. If not given, it may be true that one peson would have lived, but 5 othrs would have died.

2) We face times when any action that we take (or refuse to take) may kill the patient. Let me give you a true example:

Joe comes into the hospital with internal bleeding. We spend 10 - 14 days attempting to deal with it in a non-aggressive manner. We keep him alive with blood transfusions, and more. But, nothing helps, and he continues to bleed.

We do not know th origin of his bleed because we have not done an invasive proceedure that would identify the site, because we believe the the drugs we would have to give him to do the proceedure (pain and more) might cause him to die on the table of heart failure.

We think that we know the source of the bleed, but we are not certain. We are not going to open him up until we have determined the exact source of the bleed. In addition there is the question of whether or not he would live through the surgey.

We finally determine that he will die, if we continue to let him bleed, and that we cannot stop the bleed in a non-agressive manner. But, the surgery may kill him, and the diagnostic proceedure that we must do before surgery may kill him. What do we do?

Here is what we did:

a) We called a family conference, and with the patient, all medical specialities were there, and everything was placed on the table.

The decision was made to do the diagnostic proceedure, with the addition of a cardiologist to the proceedure staff. This resulted in our suspicion as to the source of the bleed being confirmed.

c) We then held another family meeting with medical staff. We put on the table that surgery was the only hope for life. He would die without it. But, he could die in surgery. In addition, he could wind up confined to a nursing home for the rest of his life, and he could lose cognitive function.

d) The decision was made to do the surgery with the addition of a cardiologist to the operating room.

e) The result: The surgery was successful. Joe went hom fully restored to function.

Folks, these are some of the real-life situations that we face in medecine.

[Gregory Matthews]

Let me give you another real-life situation. The terms "heart attack" and "stroke" are terms used by lay people. There is more than one type of heart attack, and more than one type of stroke. The different types may require differing treatments.

Also, treatments may have to be given in short time periods-- 30 minutes, to three hours, from the time of the attack. By the time the MD sees the patient in the ER, there may be very little time left on the time scale. The doctor may not have the ability to do the diagnosis to determine the type of attack, and the treatment. The doctor may have to make an educated guess.

In some cases, if the doctor guesses correctly, the pt. is restored to function, and lives. But, if the doctor is wrong, the patient either dies, or has a much reduced function. If so, that will be recorded as a hospital/doctor/drug error.

[Guest]

Gregory since there are many people spending years being trained wrong, they have very little time to study something that heaven would approve of. Many are so far in debt to student loans when they graduate all they can do is jump through the hoops and push them drug where the money is. My heart goes out to some of these people TRAPPED into a profession they know is wrong from the get-go. God's servants do not administer anything to harm a body made in the image of God.

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About the internal bleeding? Just give the sufferer a teaspoon of 140 proof cayenne pepper and a glass of water and the bleeding would stop. Deer hunters know more than most doctors when someone is shot and a hole where the bullet came out is a big as a large plum. Just plug up the hole, give cayenne pepper and 2 hours later when they arrive at the emergency room no blood transfusion was even needed.

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But I notice that the "true remedies" listed on page 127 of Ministry Of Healing, that when one of God servants combine any two through eight listed there, that there is NEVER a "adverse reactions". Isn't it an Amazing Fact that Heaven knows best every time? And all the while His professed people, are playing footsie with the world.

[bevin]

I always think Ed has the most appropriate slogan just under his name in the left hand side...

This week in class we were studying the use of Nitroglycerin and Thrombolytics in treating myocardial ischemia - "heart attacks".

The patient can be really between a rock and hard place - had an MI causing them to have an accident causing major trauma. They need the thrombolytic to fix the MI, but it will cause them to bleed badly from the trauma...

And only the ignorant will blame all MI's on bad exercise and diet or claim that keeping to EGW's guidance would avoid them. There are also genetic factors that cause healthy twenty year old athletic fat-free diet vegans to have MI's.

Ed is a blind watchman with a gone-out lamp.

/Bevin

[bevin]

Cayenne pepper seems to be a remarkable substance.

It stops bleeding (i.e: causes either vasoconstriction or clotting) and cures heart attacks (i.e. causes either vasodilation and destroys clots).

Mostly it transfers money from the gullable to the undeserving.

/Bevin

[Guest]

It only took about 15 years trying to convince my RN sister of how to administer cayenne pepper, FINALLY she surrendered. Once convinced, she was never the same. Once about 10 years ago the Adventist retirement center where my mother lived for 22 years, they rushed my mother to the hospital emergency with a stroke. The called my sister that lived 30 miles away. She dropped everything and ran ever red light between her home & the hospital. She marched right in to the emergency room to my mothers bed pushing doctors & nurses aside. From her pocket she pulled out some ceyenne pepper, throwing it into her mothers mouth, then said here mother drink this. The staff tried to restrain her saying you can't do that!! "Don't tell me what I can't do, that's my mother there! Come on mother put your shoes on we are going home" and they walked out.

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PS. I might add that my mother has outlived two administrators there at this retirement center due to her not eating their food & being drug free for the last 22 years. She is working on out living the third administrator that ordered her out of his complex where they could sell her apartment that she paid cash for 22 years ago.

[bevin]

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From her pocket she pulled out some ceyenne pepper, throwing it into her mothers mouth, then said here mother drink this. The staff tried to restrain her saying you can't do that!! "Don't tell me what I can't do, that's my mother there! Come on mother put your shoes on we are going home" and they walked out.

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You have a right to think and do whatever you want until your ignorance endangers the lives of others.

There are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT kinds of strokes. Basically blockages and bleeds. THEY ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN WITHOUT SOPHISTICATED SCANS.

Unfortunately their treatments are exactly opposite. For a blockage you want to dissolve the clot. For a bleed you the clotting is important - although probably what you really want is surgery.

If a person has a blockage stroke, and you FEED THEM A COAGULANT you will make the situation WORSE not better.

Assuming your story has one grain of truth in it, the old adage of "it is better to be lucky than good" applies.

/Bevin

[Gerr]

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Ed White said:

A study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association reported that adverse drug reactions accounted for more than 2.2 million serious cases and over 100,000 deaths, making adverse drug reactions (ADRs) one of the leading causes of hospitalization and death in the United States.

================================

Exactly what are Adventist doing in their hospitals that is different from the public at large? At one time Adventist MD were trained to never administer drug medication, do those today caught up in this lifestyle ever ponder their roots & what heaven thinks of their behaviour?

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[:"blue"]Ed, since EGW we have gone to the moon, have HDTV, taken pictures of the moons of Jupiter & the rings of Saturn. Are you trying to tell us that no progress have been made in medicine since her time?

If you had allergy to bee sting and you got stung & having allergic reaction, would you opt for the 8 natural modalities? Having a heart attack? Have Type 1 diabetes? Have high blood pressure? Cancer? [/]

Gerry

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "There are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT kinds of strokes. Basically blockages and bleeds. THEY ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN WITHOUT SOPHISTICATED SCANS."

That is truth. A lay person will commonly say that someone had a stroke. But, there are two types. One is pressure caused by a bleed. The other is caused by a blockage.

If it is a blockage, the MD has 30 minutes from the time of attack to medicate the person. If the MD can medicate within that time-frame, recovery is excellent. The longer that one goes before medication, beyond that 30 minute period, the greater the probablity that there will be permanant damage.

However, if the stroke is caused by a bleed, the medication given above may kill the person, and/or increase the damage.

There is no way to determine whether it is a blockage or a bleed without appropriate imaging.

Again, the time limit is 30 minutes from the time of attack, for best results.

[Guest]

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Gerry Cabalo said:

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Ed White said:

A study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association reported that adverse drug reactions accounted for more than 2.2 million serious cases and over 100,000 deaths, making adverse drug reactions (ADRs) one of the leading causes of hospitalization and death in the United States.

================================

Exactly what are Adventist doing in their hospitals that is different from the public at large? At one time Adventist MD were trained to never administer drug medication, do those today caught up in this lifestyle ever ponder their roots & what heaven thinks of their behaviour?

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[:"blue"]Ed, since EGW we have gone to the moon, have HDTV, taken pictures of the moons of Jupiter & the rings of Saturn. Are you trying to tell us that no progress have been made in medicine since her time?

If you had allergy to bee sting and you got stung & having allergic reaction, would you opt for the 8 natural modalities? Having a heart attack? Have Type 1 diabetes? Have high blood pressure? Cancer? [/]

Gerry

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Gerry we are worlds apart! What can I say? You were trained to pinpoint each one of these diseases then sic some drug medication to do the work heaven never authorized. I was trained that there is only ONE disease!! The body is toxic, get rid of the toxic/problem and just go do what God says, what wrong with that? I realize that teaching people how to eat/drink/dress doesn't pay the bills for college tutitions & second homes. Maybe the people that do the work I am doing to relieve sufferers realize that one doesn't get their full pay check in this life.

[Guest]

PS. What a insult to peoples intelligence to now label obesity & alcoholism a disease. Only grown men with 16 years of higher education are equipped to pull this trick off on gullible people. But what else is new when one departs from a “thus sayeth the Lord?? Yes the prophet was right in saying words like this. “Any person cherishing a KNOWN ERROR in faith or in practice, is under the power of sorcery and is practicing sorcery on others.”

[David_McQueen]

Ed

Am a firm believer that we should use as much natural remedies as possible when dealing with ailments and yes I agree that the body is designed to fight off disease where applicable. I am also suspicious of the profiteering of major drug companies and HMOs but surely, all things considered you cannot be suggesting that "pure air, sunlight, abstemiousness, rest, excercise, proper diet, water and trust in divine power" in and of themself can cure all diseases today.

Taken in context many of these are preventative remedies but what if you are born HIV positive or require a painkiller for an amputation/surgery/deep root canal, do you suggest for one minute that the natural remedies as listed would suffice?

Do you think heaven would frown on Dr Ben Carson for using drugs when operating?

Your thoughts

[Guest]

Gregory I know of a lady that crawled out of bed one morning and fell to the floor. One half of her body was paralyzed on one side from the top of her head to her little toenail. It took 6 months before she could remember names and walk again. All she did was flood her system with herb tea & cayenne pepper. She escaped having a foreign substance [drugs] introduced into her system that would be like a seed crop that would spring up somewhere else in her body later.

[Guest]

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David_McQueen said:

Ed

Am a firm believer that we should use as much natural remedies as possible when dealing with ailments and yes I agree that the body is designed to fight off disease where applicable. I am also suspicious of the profiteering of major drug companies and HMOs but surely, all things considered you cannot be suggesting that "pure air, sunlight, abstemiousness, rest, excercise, proper diet, water and trust in divine power" in and of themself can cure all diseases today.

Taken in context many of these are preventative remedies but what if you are born HIV positive or require a painkiller for an amputation/surgery/deep root canal, do you suggest for one minute that the natural remedies as listed would suffice?

Do you think heaven would frown on Dr Ben Carson for using drugs when operating?

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First of all I'll let Dr. Ben Carson speak for himself. He has that same "still small voice" speaking to him after he has received all the praise he can handle for one day subside into night. What he does with the information heaven alway provides is his business.

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Speaking of amputation without drugs, did you ever read "The Drummer Boys Prayer" a publication put out by Amazing Facts. Please search this site and read of a 16 year old Christian drummer boy that need both a arm & a leg cutoff by a US Army Jewish doctor in the civil war. He refused all medication as he wanted demonistrate to this Jew the POWER that Jesus would porvide when really needed. The Jew was converted to Christianty due to a prayer & testemony like this. Read the full story

[David_McQueen]

So are you saying that drugs have no place at all in modern medicine or in the examples I mentioned in my second paragraph?

[cricket]

This post is not directed at anyone in particular.

Without modern medicine, my mother would not have survived childbirth--she would have died in her mother's womb, and her mother would have died. She is alive today. Praise God!

Without modern medicine, my father would have died in his early 20s due to heart complications. Instead, he lived until 55 when he died from complications resulting from Alzheimers. Living this much longer gave him an opportunity to hear my faith and perhaps give his heart to the Lord. Praise God!

Without modern medicine, my mother-in-law would have died in her early 40s from a virus she'd contracted in the Colorado River. She is alive today. Praise God!

Without modern medicine, my grandmother would have died 2 years ago. Instead, she is now 81 and is often mistaken for someone in their late 60s. Praise God!

Without modern medicine, my husband would have died in infancy from complications resulting from allergic reactions. Today, he is alive and well and was able to learn of God's mercies in his late 20s. Praise God!

Without modern medicine, my daughter would likely die from complications resulting from allergic reactions. Instead, she is able to go to camp in the summers and is now on a swim team. Praise God!

Without modern medicine, my son would have to give up ice skating and football. He would suffer from asthma instead and need to stay indoors for his health.

Without modern medicine, I would have died in infancy from a malignant tumor. Instead, I survived. I then would have died while giving birth to my firstborn. However, both my daughter and I survived. Then, I would have again died when giving birth to my son. Praise God, we both survived. A few months after that, I would have died from a diseased gall-bladder. Modern medicine gave me back a pain-free life. Praise God!

Without modern medicine, my son's best friend would have died a month ago. Now, she is learning to cope with her Juvenile Diabetes and is living a full life again. Tonight she might even get to go to VBS. Praise God!

From this standpoint, without modern medicine, I would not have been born. My husband would have died in infancy. My children wouldn't even have been the twinkling in our eyes.

God is the creator of life and the author thereof. The Lord commands us to be fruitful and to multiply. He designed the Ten Commandments for our happiness--thus, it is our happiness He is interested in.

Praise the Lord for life! Praise the Lord for our happiness! Praise the Lord that He has given men and women wisdom to cure diseases and to assist those in trouble.

[Gerr]

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[:"blue"]Ed, since EGW we have gone to the moon, have HDTV, taken pictures of the moons of Jupiter & the rings of Saturn. Are you trying to tell us that no progress have been made in medicine since her time?

If you had allergy to bee sting and you got stung & having allergic reaction, would you opt for the 8 natural modalities? Having a heart attack? Have Type 1 diabetes? Have high blood pressure? Cancer? [/]

Gerry

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Gerry we are worlds apart! What can I say? You were trained to pinpoint each one of these diseases then sic some drug medication to do the work heaven never authorized. I was trained that there is only ONE disease!! The body is toxic, get rid of the toxic/problem and just go do what God says, what wrong with that? I realize that teaching people how to eat/drink/dress doesn't pay the bills for college tutitions & second homes. Maybe the people that do the work I am doing to relieve sufferers realize that one doesn't get their full pay check in this life.

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[:"blue"]Ed, you are assuming I don't talk about preventive medicine to my patients and that I am only interested in paying bills and a second home. You are assuming that if somehow I talked to my patients about the 8 natural remedies that they will all get well. Well, how many friends do you have that stopped smoking on your recommendation? Slimmed down because you gave them a diet to lose weight? Asthma cured, Type 1 diabetes cured, anaphylactic reaction cured, etc. etc. because they followed the 8 natural remedies?

I'm all for natural remedies where applicable, but to say that the 8 natural remedies is a cure-all is way off base. How many diabetic children have died because the parents believed that prayer alone could cure them? [/]

Gerry

[:"blue"]P.S. I have been following the 8 natural remedies since h.s., well, maybe not perfectly, and I had been in perfect health until I turned 65. That's when I discovered one cancer because of a blood test, and the other accidentally. Would both of them have disappeared by the 8 natural remedies alone? Dream on. Should I have had my surgery without that nasty drug anesthetic that could shut down your liver?

Again let me ask you, Ed, we've gone to the moon since EGW, has there been no progress in medicine since her time?

Same [/]

[Guest]

Gerry said. "How many diabetic children have died because the parents believed that prayer alone could cure them?"

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These parents were not informed!! In most cases, diabetic children would be unheard of if the cows milk & the AMA approved formula & vacinations were discarded at birth. Even with this handicap that is against these innocient children their sickness can still be turned around by diet alone!!! Heaven does nothing that is faulty!

[Barbara]

After the last two weeks I am very thatful for the medications the Dr's gave me for my Migraine and tight neck that cause my migraine. I am thankful that my sister can go in and get the help she need with her migraines.

[bevin]

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Even with this handicap that is against these innocient children their sickness can still be turned around by diet alone!!!

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Once again Ed's light has gone out, and he is dispensing fatally bad advice to anyone foolish enough to believe his utter nonsense.

In Type I diabetes, the kind that children usually have, the body is simply not producing insulin because the insulin-producing cells have been destroyed. Insulin is absolutely essential, and can not be obtained orally.

Diet can NOT fix the problem. Sufferers must have insulin injections.

See here...

/Bevin

[Gerr]

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Ed White said:

Gerry said. "How many diabetic children have died because the parents believed that prayer alone could cure them?"

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These parents were not informed!! In most cases, diabetic children would be unheard of if the cows milk & the AMA approved formula & vacinations were discarded at birth. Even with this handicap that is against these innocient children their sickness can still be turned around by diet alone!!! Heaven does nothing that is faulty!

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[:"blue"]Ed, I suggest you better do a little more investigation before you completely lose credibility. [/]

Gerry

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "Even with this handicap that is against these innocient children their sickness can still be turned around by diet alone!!!"

Those of us who work in health care certainly know of diabetics that can be controlled by diet, and exercise, alone, without medication. But, there is not one type of diabetes. and there is not one type of treatment. The bottom line is that only some can be controlled by diet and exercise. There are others who cannot be controlled.

But, there is another side to this. We know that some diabetics are where they are due to poor choices that they made in their lifestyle. Now, it should be clearly stated that this is NOT true for everyone. But, for these people they did not have the knowledge that Ed brings to us. We, in health care meet these people when it is too late. They are at the point in time where the only course of treatment is medication.

In an ideal world, the world of Ed's dreams, everyone would have the knowledge that he wishes to share with us. People would not have degenerative diseases associated with poor life-style choices. The result would be that we would not have to use many of the medications that we use today. But, that world does not exist in reality. It is not the world in which I live. It only exists in the minds of some.

[Planey]

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Gregory Matthews said:

It is not the world in which I live. It only exists in the minds of some.

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And clearly it is a world with wide open spaces in some cases.

Graeme

[Jeannieb43]

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Ed White said:

She marched right in to the emergency room to my mothers bed pushing doctors & nurses aside. From her pocket she pulled out some ceyenne pepper, throwing it into her mothers mouth, then said here mother drink this. The staff tried to restrain her saying you can't do that!! "Don't tell me what I can't do, that's my mother there! Come on mother put your shoes on we are going home" and they walked out.

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You can use any kind of "treatment" you wish to use, as long as the patient is your dependent relative. But when you go trying to use those remedies on the public, such as in a hospital, you'd be risking a serious lawsuit, or even criminal charges for practicing medicine without a license.