Amelia Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 *tacking on I have factor 8 hemophilia in the moderate form. If I were in a bleed situation, no amount of cayenne pepper is going to stop it. I'd bleed to death before you got enough into me to do any good. BTW my last timing was 16 min to the first sign of clotting. That is the "first sign". It does not mean I have stopped bleeding. Quote <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_McQueen Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 I think it sad when we do misinform people as to what drugs are and what benefit they can provide. One of the things I have found sadly missing in our churches is a proper drug education programme as part of our health programme for both those who have either taken them for health purposes or those who have abused them. As a drug educator meself I have found myself having to constantly explain that drugs can be both naturally and synthetically produced. They include vaccines, serums and in many instances are administered to simulate what the body does in preventing or treating disease and ailments. Jesus knows Quote Firstborn Ministries: Spoken and written word, without apology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted July 27, 2005 Moderators Share Posted July 27, 2005 Most people who advocate natural remedies fail to realize the number of medications that originated in nature. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormF Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 tagging on ... If I needed a doctor, I think I'd choose Gerry or Ben (Herndon or Carson in this case, either one!) over "Dr. Ed's" style any day. I just hope Ed's house wiring is better than his medical practice. Quote Debile fundamentum, fallit opus. - "Where there is a weak foundation, the work falls." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Quote: NormF said: tagging on ... If I needed a doctor, I think I'd choose Gerry or Ben (Herndon or Carson in this case, either one!) over "Dr. Ed's" style any day. I just hope Ed's house wiring is better than his medical practice. A few years ago, I would have agreed with this philosophy...And for the general public, it is a good standard to practice. As it minimizes health risks, and promotes the public's general health. However, there is another medicine that is coming upon the public, called "chineese medicine" or "eastern medicine"...It is commonly used in china, and is available along side with Western medicine. In china, the two medicine thoughts are NOT in competition with each other. There is no shame in going to an accupuncturist to ease pain nor is there any guilt in going to a herbal doctor to treat an internal disorder. In defense of Ed, there are some things used that have come to us from Eastern Medicine, and the cayanne pepper is one of them. And for some people, it works...But that same medicine does not always work for all people all the time... So, guys, don't go and pooh hoo all natural remedies. Those that know how to use them, do, by and large, use them responsibly...usually for self dosing, but by and large, responsibly... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted July 28, 2005 Moderators Share Posted July 28, 2005 Natural remedies are being pooh-poohed less and less. The operateive word, in medical places is "evidence based medecine." Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Quote: NormF said: tagging on ... If I needed a doctor, I think I'd choose Gerry or Ben (Herndon or Carson in this case, either one!) over "Dr. Ed's" style any day. I just hope Ed's house wiring is better than his medical practice. ================================= Norm in your case, where there is little know, there is little required. Thanks for not disappointing me. ==================== I like the way you started your words "If I needed a doctor". That is almost the way the SOP started off a sentence once, but she finished it off by saying she would rather call in a lawyer to treat her than the MDs in her area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Norm said. "I just hope Ed's house wiring is better than his medical practice." ======================== To be truthful I have no medical advice other than teaching people how to eat/drink/dress, this is honorable employment that the MDs refuse to do. Also they would need to unlearn so much to be a effective worker in this field! And since there is no money in this honorable work they will stay put with their lodge buddies where witchcraft can be engaged to their hearts content. Neither do I wire houses, most of my electrical work has been industrial/commerical where projects of $680,000.00 had to be completed in 180 calender days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Amelia said. "I have factor 8 hemophilia in the moderate form. If I were in a bleed situation, no amount of cayenne pepper is going to stop it. I'd bleed to death before you got enough into me to do any good. BTW my last timing was 16 min to the first sign of clotting. That is the "first sign". It does not mean I have stopped bleeding." ===================================== I know of a open wound 16" long made by a chainsaw that was definately a bleed situation!!! Just one hand full of cayenne pepper rubbed into this open wound stopped the bleeding immediately. Would I advise people to do all the things I have suggested above??? No I never would do this due to the birddog attornies out there in bed with the MDs, all I tell people is this. "If I was sick with your cronic illness, here is what I would do for myself". ======================== How can you discount the value of cayenne peper to stop bleeding and NEVER have tried it??? This reminds me of the Adventist theology department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Amelia said... Quote: I have factor 8 hemophilia in the moderate form To which Ed replied, Quote: I know of a open wound 16" long made by a chainsaw that was definately a bleed situation!!! Just one hand full of cayenne pepper rubbed into this open wound stopped the bleeding immediately. Would I advise people to do all the things I have suggested above??? No I never would do this due to the birddog attornies out there in bed with the MDs, all I tell people is this. "If I was sick with your cronic illness, here is what I would do for myself". Ed, what you don't realize is that Cayanne pepper will shut down a bleeding vessel by vasoconstriction. It has chemical properties that will transferr to a wet bleeding area and cause a shut down of vessels and that slows bleeding. Hemophilia, as I understand it, is the LACK OF A CLOTTING FACTOR. In other words, Amelia could bleed to death from a moderate cut that you or I with or without cayanne pepper would survive. Sure, you may slow the flow, but she will surely loose blood no matter what because her blood does NOT clot... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted July 29, 2005 Moderators Share Posted July 29, 2005 Quote: So, guys, don't go and pooh hoo all natural remedies. Those that know how to use them, do, by and large, use them responsibly...usually for self dosing, but by and large, responsibly... [:"blue"]Neither should you swallow something just because it is passed off as "natural". As Greg pointed out, the operative word that is currently in vogue is, "evidence based medicine". The experts are reviewing or testing every treatment you could think of, and the risk to benefit ratio are pointed out. Let me remind you that a great many of the drugs used in medicine are derived from "natural" sources. Pure Insulin that is identical to that which is produced by the body can now be produced by bacteria or yeast. Many antibiotics came from molds, and once the chemical structure is known, they can be synthesized, identical to the "natural" one. Digitalis, quinine, taxol (an anti-cancer drug), even that wonder drug Aspirin, all came from nature. Thyroid medicines, testosterone, cortisone, estrogens. And the list goes on & on. And of course, marijuana, heroin, cocaine, caffeine, are "natural" "remedies" for some people too. And did you read in the papers yesterday that that highly touted "natural remedy" Echinacea was tested & found wanting? [/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted July 29, 2005 Moderators Share Posted July 29, 2005 Quote: Ed White said: Norm said. "I just hope Ed's house wiring is better than his medical practice." ======================== To be truthful I have no medical advice other than teaching people how to eat/drink/dress, this is honorable employment that the MDs refuse to do. Also they would need to unlearn so much to be a effective worker in this field! And since there is no money in this honorable work they will stay put with their lodge buddies where witchcraft can be engaged to their hearts content. Neither do I wire houses, most of my electrical work has been industrial/commerical where projects of $680,000.00 had to be completed in 180 calender days. [:"blue"]Since you would use cayenne pepper, which by the way by definition is also a drug, [drug - any substance used as a medicine or as an ingredient in a medicine which kills or inactivates germs, or affects any body function or organ, Webster], would you rather use the cinchona bark to treat malaria? Use spirea for fever or aches & pains? Eat bacteria or yeast to treat infections? Eat fox glove leaves for heart condition? These are all "natural remedies" too. BTW, I only have one house, and I wouldn't be surprised if your contractor house is even bigger than mine. And no, I am not a member of any lodge, and no I don't have lawyer buddies. And in case you haven't heard, the word "lawyer" is a 4-letter word in many MD's vocabulary. [/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevin Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Excellent summary of the situation, Gerry! /Bevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted July 29, 2005 Moderators Share Posted July 29, 2005 Not specific to GC: 1) Marinol might be said by some to be a natural medication. Yet, I question whether or not Ed would recommend it. For some people/conditions it may very well have a place. But, for wholesale useage? No, I don't think so. 2) MDs do recommend natural remedies. I round with Internal Medecine students. Today, as I have heard many times in the past, I heard the professor respond to a specific type of heart disease. He simply told the students that the best treatment for this specific type is an appropriate exercise program, and that the one-year survival rate is better for that than for any other treatment. But, keep in mind, there are multiple types of heart disease (as in cancer, diabetes, stokes, and much more), the issues is tailoring the treatment to the condition. Exercise for one type of heart disease will not be the best treatment for another. 3)I work in a teaching hospital that serves a multi-state area. It is not uncommon for air medical evacuation flights to bring us patients from accross large mountain ranges in this state, and from other states. Typically these patients will be flown in alone, and without family. Patients may come to us with an expectation that we can treat the illness and return the patient to home. We then may find the illness to be greater than expected, and the patient will die within our facility. John Jones (not his real name)came under such circumstances. He quickly began the process of dying. His condition was such that he was beyond our ability to restore him to life. His last conscious wish was that we keep his heart beating until his wife could come to our hospital, and for us to bring him to the point of consciousness that he could talk to her. Folks, this was the last wish of a man very near death. Natural remedies will not accomplish his goal. The only posibility of granting him his wish was to do high-tech medical interventions. Those interventions would not save his life. They would only give him some hope of visiting with his wife for a short period of time before he died. Those of you who talk against modern medecine, and talk about natural remedies; what you you do in regard to that last wish of a dying man? The practice of medecine is often much more than non-medical people may realize. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Nan Posted July 29, 2005 Moderators Share Posted July 29, 2005 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> The practice of medecine is often much more than non-medical people may realize. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Amen to that Gregory. My particular branch of medicine probably involves less prescribing than others, and there are many instances where I advise natural/nonpharmacological treatments or activities. There are other times when I advise a medication I believe to be appropriate. I also believe God gave us brains to use. I believe that the prophecy of Daniel that knowledge would be increased in the last days also applies to medicine. Today's knowledge of the structure and effects of "drugs" is hugely superior to what it was in Mrs White's days. Hence I believe it behoves us in the medical fraternity to educate ourselves and choose the best alternative for our patients. I have no doubt God performs miracles when He deems it appropriate. But I also believe He expects us to use what is under our noses before asking for supernatural intervention. And as a note to that, I pray many times during my professional day, asking for the wisdom and skills I will need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockey Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Why do you guys/ladies even bother arguing with Ed. If you argue with an idiot he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevin Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Because otherwise the lurkers would get the impression that all SDA were as way-of-base as Ed is You can't let such self-assertive proclamation of nonsense go un-jumped-on otherwise it would take over the forum /Bevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted July 30, 2005 Moderators Share Posted July 30, 2005 Bevin is correct. It is important to let people who are attempting to understand Adventism know that Ed does not represent traditional Adventism. I think that Ed would agree with that statement. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Quote: Gregory Matthews said: Most people who advocate natural remedies fail to realize the number of medications that originated in nature. Sigh!!!! For a long time I avoided this thread, for I knew the strong opinions that often originate from partial knowledge. And much as I find it difficult to put a defense up for Ed, it is true that his desire to see everyone practice good health habits, is not misplaced. (Please see my post to Barbara if you would like to see this servant's experience on health for the discerning) Much that is true about people avoiding religion as practiced by some individuals, thereby making it difficult to receive a knowledge of a loving Saviour, IMO, is true about the how of Ed's technical advice, especially for someone earnestly desiring to be healed of a particular malady, but avoiding the stream of conversation, being repulsed by advice being given without any sense of love for the patient as Jesus would give it. Is it any wonder natural healthful living is looked at askance by the many who might accept some good ideas, if the ideas were presented without the sense of an air of spiritual superiority, which is misrepresentation or a breaking of the ninth commandment. And thus allows Ed to join the rest of humanity as an equal, for he who has broken one of the Ten Commandments has broken them all. [:"red"] "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." [/] James 2:10 KJV Meet me at Barbara's post after I've posted. I type slow. Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Sid said these words. "he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience." ================================ No brother you are looking in the field glasses backwards as many others do, after I have completed my posts on these threads the "level" has just been ELEVATED about three notches, never backwards!! When God service is being dishonored and innocient people being oppressed I will stand in the breach until those with egg on their face do their homework as I have done then come and come stand besides me. But if not, that is their loss and I will be my own fortress in the strength of The Mighty One! Since you know of my exsperience in dealing with those trained the wrong way to burn/poison/slash which means to radation/cemo/surgery I will tell you of a personal exsperience. =============================== "Life"... one never knows from reading your posts of which side you are on. If you are coming to my defence, PLEEEESE don't bother. Just take a day off and get your fact together then enter the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Quote: Gregory Matthews said: Bevin is correct. It is important to let people who are attempting to understand Adventism know that Ed does not represent traditional Adventism. I think that Ed would agree with that statement. ======================== Gregory For a economy of words on your part, you sure said a mouthful of TRUTH! Having attended the Oklahoma campmeeting this week and searching for truth there it was more scarse at that gathering than hens teeth. But you had truth all ready for me on my return. Thank you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Quote: Barbara said: After the last two weeks I am very thankful for the medications the Dr's gave me for my Migraine and tight neck that cause my migraine. I am thankful that my sister can go in and get the help she need with her migraines. Since this experience is partially personal testimony of myself and partially about someone I'm personally involved with, who is chronically ill, and has been for the last thirty years of their life, it may or may not have any information that would be of help to you, but it could. I'm not sure what the eight laws of health are that Ed may have referred to, but one thing seems sure to me. The primary and absolutely essential one is trust in God. [:"red"] "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." [/] 3 John 2 No matter how many health rules one follows, without recognition that it is God Who gives health to whom He will, all the rule keeping will in the end be futile. After all, it was John the Baptist who lost his head, a person Jesus said there was none greater on earth. We're still in the land of the prince of darkness. As to health, I'm referring especially to the migraines you have experienced. We know, myself and my spouse, that migraines can be especially debilitating, different people having different experiences but diagnosed with the same malady, migraines. Before we married she had migraines that sometimes kept her in bed for the better part of three days. Many pharmaceuticals were depended upon but none gave more than temporary relief and no pill came without a malady of its' own. Finally a pharmacist's assistance gave me some advice that she was not legally suppose to give, that she was taking a natural supplement called 'feverfew'. Already being an 'alternative medicine' enthusiast', I grabbed the advice and ran with it, but not knowing the exact amounts that might be helpful I didn't run too fast. (I happen to monitor all of the meds my spouse takes as her memory makes it important that other than herself be responsible, another malady I believe came with her trust in mainstream pharmaceutical remedies) And I also recognized that natural supplements are not quick fixes or only masks to the true cause of the malady addressed. After six months to a year of taking 100MG-300MG capsules daily, she is totally without migraines of any severity, and almost totally without headaches of any sort. She now takes 200MG regularly, everyday. BTW, because of our friendship with a person who was wheelchair bound as a result of rheumatoid arthritic pain, and has subsequently moved to a more normal ambulatory existence she credits to the taking of Pycnogenol (cheaper as 'grapeseed extract'), we also began taking that supplement, and today my wife is totally free of eczema (something some doctors say is incurable), fibromyalgia, asthma, as well as migraines. My wife still takes 200MG of grapeseed extract daily. Neither of these supplements have proven to have any deleterious side affects. This information is only for your consideration, but if you happen to find it valuable for your own use, you can almost be sure it will do more for your migraines than any pharmaceutical on the market, without the harmful lingering side affects. And the hole in your pocket book will be decidedly smaller. My health? Having put into practice (not perfectly) the information available from EGW as speaking for God about health principles, for the last half a century, I have no chronic pain, I take no medications beyond natural supplementation (I'm a poor cook), and I still believe it is directly related to trusting God entirely as the greatest boon to my health. And trust in Him is available to anyone, whatever their circumstances. [:"red"] "A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones." [/] Proverbs 17:22 KJV [:"red"] "And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first." [/] Jer 33:7 KJV [:"red"] "On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." [/] Mark 2:17 NIV Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted July 31, 2005 Moderators Share Posted July 31, 2005 Ed. in all honesty, I felt you would be pleased with my statement, and NOT offended. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/coolhello.gif" alt="" /> Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Life said this. "I'm not sure what the eight laws of health are that Ed may have referred to, but one thing seems sure to me. The primary and absolutely essential one is trust in God." ================== Brother I am always glad to provide this list, why??? Because they are the ONLY true remedies!!! And THANK YOU for your testemony of "trusting in divine power" which is one of the eight, probally the most important. ======================= "Natural Remedies Pure air, sunlight, abstemiousness, rest, exercise, proper diet, the use of water, trust in divine power--these are the true remedies. Every person should have a knowledge of nature's remedial agencies and how to apply them. It is essential both to understand the principles involved in the treatment of the sick and to have a practical training that will enable one rightly to use this knowledge. {MH 127.2} The use of natural remedies requires an amount of care and effort that many are not willing to give. Nature's process of healing and upbuilding is gradual, and to the impatient it seems slow. The surrender of hurtful indulgences requires sacrifice. But in the end it will be found that nature, untrammeled, does her work wisely and well. Those who persevere in obedience to her laws will reap the reward in health of body and health of mind. 128 {MH 127.3} =================================== Since these 8 rules are the "true remedies", then all these drug store foreign conconctions are the bogus remedies, see how simple this really is??? =================== Gerry suggested that cayenne pepper is a drug. No it is not! It is a ground up dried fruit from a blossom/plant. All green & red peppers are safe to use. Black & white pepper is poison to the system, stay clear of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planey Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Ed, I am intrigued. Just what is your definition of a drug? Graeme Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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