Adverse drug reactions

[Gregory Matthews]

In the health services, "drug" is commonly used for a medication that requires a prescription, although this is a simplified version of it.

As a point of interest, and to indicate where medical care is, capsicum is a prescribed medication. It is used in the hospital where I work. Ed White clearly advocates it useage, but under a more commonly known name.

Ed, please comment on the useage of capsicum. Would you agree? Would you disagree, and only suggest that it be used under its more common name.

Here is the issue: When it is prescribed as capsicum, it is given in a standardized unit, and in a stated doseage. That dosage is evidence based to do what it is intended to do. The prescribing physician can depend with a high probability that it will perform as needed.

When Ed advises one to take it under the more common name that he uses, he cannot be certain that the strength is standardized. Capsicum will have differing strengths in the plant in which it grows. In addition, Ed cannot depend upon the person getting the exact amount of doseage required, neither to much, nor to little. As Ed recommends it, it may be more than the amount needed, or it may be less.

[Guest]

Well Greg I will say this. About 10 years ago my brother came up to Northern Calif. he had been suffering with shingles for weeks & weeks. He pulled out a tube of the doctors medicine about the size of a tube of tooth paste [$38.00] to administer on his belly & chest. Now I know NOTHING about drugs, but I said to him, "I bet I can tell you what the FIRST ingreedient is that is listed on that tube of the doctors medicine". He looked at the label that I had NEVER seen or even heard about as I told him "capsicum". He read the label and yes it was capsicum! Why did I know this? Because common sense tells a person to place dry oatmeal & 120 proof cayenne pepper in a seed mill and grind into powder then dump all the talcum power in waste basket and fill container with this product and administer as needed.

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If the drug manufactures touch anything, I rest ashured they inserted at least a nickles worth of poison into their concocktion. There maybe an execption to this hard fast rule however. I sure hope so.

[Guest]

PS. A close MD friend of mine that was a 1938 Loma Linda graduate, discarded all the training about drug medication taught her and went and studied the red books SOP instead. She made a bigger impact for the good on my life than any one person I can think of. Once when I was still drinking cows milk my sinsus would flare up. I had spent the night sleeping out with no bedding at the base of a giant water falls. I was in big trouble the next day with my sinsus. I called her for HELP, telling her I was trying to make it home. She said "you stop at the next grocery store and buy a can of cayenne pepper, a jar of vasaline and tooth picks". I was to stir with tooth pick one teaspoon of cayenne into on teaspoon of vasoline and apply to my sinsus areas. I still had about 6o miles to go before reaching home to wash this stuff off. I was completely well by the time I got home. The pepper made the blood to circulate to come to that area and clean things up. Glory be to God to have someone available with some common sense instead of being subjected to the sorcers pills.

[Amelia]

I fail to see how that would work.

[Jeannieb43]

Probably acts somewhat like Vicks Vapo-Rub.

[bevin]

Ed doesn't have a clue WHAT was wrong with his sinus,

doesn't have a clue how long the problem would last without treatment, does some random superstitious thing, and since the problem goes away - declares the action a cure.

Evidence-based medicine requires repeatable trials and a plausible explanation.

Sometimes Ed's stuff will work, sometimes it will do no harm, and sometimes it will kill you - and he doesn't know which.

/Bevin

[Guest]

Bevin I know from the tone of your voice that you are running scared, yes you know that some of your cherished idols will topple over someday soon. But brother don't curse the darkness, light a candle. "God has a thousand way to provide for you of which you know nothing about". SOP

My heart goes out to the newly graduated MDs that are over a hundred thousand dollars in debt to their education and are trapped now and must use the drug medication to get out of debt. But heaven is never taken by supprise for lasting solutions to assist the honest in heart.

[David_McQueen]

Without a shadow of a doubt most drugs produced by pharms are synthetic. This is a combination of being able to mass produce them and also it also reduces the cost of the natural extraction of such drugs.

Yet even the natural drugs from nature have their side effects too whether it be morphine, marijuana extract, etc. Not to mention the sources for insulin, penicillin and other antibiotics, etc.

For the top prescribed drugs in the UK used to treat headaches, indigestion, colds, allergies, laxatives many of these can be treated with natural remedies such as cayenne, feverfew, zinc rich foods along with water and exercise can help. As mentioned before however this does not mean that all synthetic drugs which sometimes are only as a temporary measure to correct pain or relieve distress are in and of themselves negative.

It is worth noting that our body produces many of the chemicals which are contained in some drugs as well such as insulin, steroids, HGH, estrogen, Benzodiazepines and many synthetic drugs either try to mimic these chemicals and their responses.

Whilst not a member of the medical fraternity either holistic or otherwise, continuous research and prayer in this area as to how such chemical synthetic or natural chemicals can help the body to repair, relieve pain, etc and to allow many to be informed of the effects of medicine are important and need much thought rather than ill informed opinion. God has granted us intelligence to use for his glory and I pray that at the end of the discussion rather than taking pot shots at each other, his name is glorified regardless of how different our experiences are.

[bevin]

Quote:

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many of these can be treated with natural remedies such as cayenne, feverfew

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The method by which the molecule is made is irrelevant. What is relevant is the set of molecules and their concentration.

The "natural remedies" are usually a huge cocktail of many chemicals, most of which are NOT useful for the purpose of the person swallowing the remedy.

This is THE fundamental problem with 'natural remedies' - you are taking an unknown concentration of the desirable molecule, and an unknown concentration of a large set of other molecules.

/Bevin

ps: Ed - doctor's typically do NOT get paid by the drug companies. They get paid by the insurance companies - who are trying to keep the costs down. Dr's do not get more money because they prescribe drugs.

[bevin]

Quote:

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Bevin I know from the tone of your voice that you are running scared

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apparently your hearing is as deaf as your eyesight is blind

/Bevin

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: Payments to MDs from drug companies.

I am aware of a local hospital which has barred the represnetatives from a drug company for its building because it violated hospital policy in offering some doctors some low-cost gifts.

No, I an neither going to name the hospital, nor the drug company. The point is, ths system worked. The offer was reported, and action was taken.

[Guest]

Bevin said this. "Dr's do not get more money because they prescribe drugs."

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Really now? Why I have seen more honesty & truefulness in the back room of a saloon where there is a room full of poker players.

[Gregory Matthews]

Not directed at Bevin:

A number of posts have been made here in regard to medical practice by people who probably do not understand modern medical practice. The reality is that more doctors are working within the belief systems of their patients, and to include non-traditional treatments, but within constraints. Allow me to illustrate with a true story:

Susan had warts on the bottom of her feet. First she tried self-teatment with standard methods of the non-traditional treatments for warts. While I will not list all of them methods that she tried, one involved wraping her feet with duct tape. None of them worked. If the warts went away, the returned almost immediately. For some, they did not go away.

So, Susan then visited her doctor, a man with specialties in two areas. He tried the typical methods of removing them. In all cases they immediately returned.

By this time, Susan had learned of a non-traditional method of treatment that involved the injection of a very common substance into the body. This was beyond her level of self-treatment, so she discussed it with her doctor. He listened, and wrote a prescription. He told Susan that if she could find literature on that method, with a means of his obtaining an injectable form of that common substance, and treatment guidelines, he would do it. The prescription he explained was to be given to some reasearchers who would search the literature, find anything written on this method, and give copies to Susan. She simply had to present it to researchers at an address he gave her. She did, and a few days later she had the literature. He obtained the injectable substance, the treatment guidelines, and provideed the treatment as directed. It failed. By the way, Susan's medical insurance company paid for this alternative treatment. So far nothing had worked.

The doctor then sent Susan to specialists at a teaching hospitatl. They are now treating Susan with cutting edge therapy. At this point in time, it is working.

The events as I have described them occured over a period of several years.

My point is that the doctor listened to Susan, considered her request to try injection the common substance. Helped her find literature on that method of treatment, and did it. He could have sent her immediately to the teaching hospital. But, he involved her in her treatment, and worked within her constructs.

Modernmedicine does this, and uses non-traditional treatments.

At the hospital where I work I was once part of a team trating HIV+ people with traditional and non-traditional methods. They were provided with massage therapy, and much more to include non-traditional methods as well as traditional methods.

[Gregory Matthews]

Jean Watson: If you do not think that modern medical care can be non-traditional, just read her writings.

[Nan]

I know that this is

<img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/129933-offtopic2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/129933-offtopic2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/129933-offtopic2.gif" alt="" /> but it was irresistable..

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bevin said:

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Bevin I know from the tone of your voice that you are running scared

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apparently your hearing is as deaf as your eyesight is blind

/Bevin

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And he will soon need new contact lenses for his hearing aid????

[Guest]

Quote:

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Gregory Matthews said:

Not directed at Bevin:

A number of posts have been made here in regard to medical practice by people who probably do not understand modern medical practice. The reality is that more doctors are working within the belief systems of their patients, and to include non-traditional treatments, but within constraints. Allow me to illustrate with a true story:

Susan had warts on the bottom of her feet. First she tried self-teatment with standard methods of the non-traditional treatments for warts. While I will not list all of them methods that she tried, one involved wraping her feet with duct tape. None of them worked. If the warts went away, the returned almost immediately. For some, they did not go away.

So, Susan then visited her doctor, a man with specialties in two areas. He tried the typical methods of removing them. In all cases they immediately returned.

By this time, Susan had learned of a non-traditional method of treatment that involved the injection of a very common substance into the body. This was beyond her level of self-treatment, so she discussed it with her doctor. He listened, and wrote a prescription. He told Susan that if she could find literature on that method, with a means of his obtaining an injectable form of that common substance, and treatment guidelines, he would do it. The prescription he explained was to be given to some reasearchers who would search the literature, find anything written on this method, and give copies to Susan. She simply had to present it to researchers at an address he gave her. She did, and a few days later she had the literature. He obtained the injectable substance, the treatment guidelines, and provideed the treatment as directed. It failed. By the way, Susan's medical insurance company paid for this alternative treatment. So far nothing had worked.

The doctor then sent Susan to specialists at a teaching hospitatl. They are now treating Susan with cutting edge therapy. At this point in time, it is working.

The events as I have described them occured over a period of several years.

My point is that the doctor listened to Susan, considered her request to try injection the common substance. Helped her find literature on that method of treatment, and did it. He could have sent her immediately to the teaching hospital. But, he involved her in her treatment, and worked within her constructs.

Modernmedicine does this, and uses non-traditional treatments.

At the hospital where I work I was once part of a team trating HIV+ people with traditional and non-traditional methods. They were provided with massage therapy, and much more to include non-traditional methods as well as traditional methods.

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Gregory if I had Susan problem, I would have used what nature has provided...Pine Pitch, then put on my track shoes and run a few laps around the block in training for climing Mt. Lassen that I climb every year.

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With me working in electrical construction for 40 years, many times my work was at water & sewage treatment plants from start to finish. These plants don't like to see fungus growing so they monitor the ph factor trying to keep the needle around 7.4. Then they SEE THAT IT IS DONE!!!Most of the food that people eat in todays world is acid forming which is a ideal place for disease to go wild. Just get your system back to around 7.4 by eating the diet that heaven provided and accute care center could be used for accidents only. Then the SDA MDs out there that were trained wrong could take a refresher class on teaching people on how to eat/drink/dress and then they could yet find some success in this life before it is to late. Let the Baptist/Catholic Accute Care centers take care of their own, Adventist have a higher calling.

[Amelia]

Warts are caused by the HPV virus. You get it from the outside in, not the inside out. IMHO diet wont affect the contraction of HPV.

[Gerr]

Quote:

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Ed White said:

Bevin said this. "Dr's do not get more money because they prescribe drugs."

=================================

Really now? Why I have seen more honesty & truefulness in the back room of a saloon where there is a room full of poker players.

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[:"blue"]Ed, we're still waiting for your reply to Planey's request of giving us YOUR definition of what a drug is.

For what my wife pays for 3cc of eye drops for glaucoma ($81 until she went to Costco which charges $51), I'd be a rich man if I got paid by the drug companies.

Ed, you mean well, but your wild & unsubstantiated charges about people's motives, and your brazen talk about the practice of medicine of which you know little about, does not speak well for your credibility. It is your kind of use or misuse of EGW's writings that turn people off about her. [/]

Gerry

[Guest]

Gerry said. "Ed, we're still waiting for your reply to Planey's request of giving us YOUR definition of what a drug is.

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A drug is what deceived people and trained wrong doctors use, didn't the father of medicine say words like this. "Your medicine is your food and food is to be your medicine". The oath that MD take to not do harm to anyone is a joke as they go about doing their bogus training in burning/slashing/poisoning.

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By the way. next time you pop the top off that soda pop, most are around 2.1 on the ACID side of the scale. This soda pop is what informed electricans pour into underground pipes where concrete was spilled accidently to dislodge a slug about 13.1 on the scale.

Most all grains are acid forming, millet is one of the execption. Go buy some bird seed as it is mostly millet and it contains nothing to harm a delicate bird.

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Gerry you keep talking about my credibility. Thanks for your concern, but...

[David_McQueen]

Some links for a definition of a drug

A drug is any substance that can be used to treat an illness, relieve a symptom, or modify a chemical process or processes in the body. The word "drug" is etymologically derived from the Dutch/Low German word "droog", which means "dry", since in the past, most drugs were dried plant parts.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug

# *: Any synthetic or natural chemical substance used in the treatment, prevention, or diagnosis of disease, or for other medical reasons.

www.cwru.edu/med/epidbio/mphp439/Dictionary.htm

[Guest]

Quote:

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David_McQueen said:

Some links for a definition of a drug

A drug is any substance that can be used to treat an illness, relieve a symptom, or modify a chemical process or processes in the body. The word "drug" is etymologically derived from the Dutch/Low German word "droog", which means "dry", since in the past, most drugs were dried plant parts.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug

# *: Any synthetic or natural chemical substance used in the treatment, prevention, or diagnosis of disease, or for other medical reasons.

www.cwru.edu/med/epidbio/mphp439/Dictionary.htm

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David you are reading the world definition for drugs, Adventist are just pilgrims here on this planet for the sole purpose to warning the world of coming disaster, and one cannot be informed with a clouded mind of taking drugs or administering them. Your leadership knows that...

"Drugs never cure disease. They only change its form and location. Nature alone is the effectual restorer, and how much better can she perform her task if left to herself! But this privilege is seldom allowed her. If crippled nature bears up under the load, and finally accomplishes in a measure her double task, and the patient lives, the credit is given to the physician. But if nature fails in her effort to expel the poison from the system, and the patient dies, it is called a wonderful dispensation of Providence. If the patient had taken a course to relieve overburdened nature in season, and understandingly used pure, soft water, this dispensation of drug mortality might have been wholly averted. The use of water can accomplish but little, if the patient does not realize the necessity of strict attention to his diet. {RH, September 5, 1899 par. 4}

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What part of "NEVER" don't you people trained wrong understand??

[Gerr]

Quote:

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Ed White said:

Gerry said. "Ed, we're still waiting for your reply to Planey's request of giving us YOUR definition of what a drug is.

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A drug is what deceived people and trained wrong doctors use, didn't the father of medicine say words like this. "Your medicine is your food and food is to be your medicine". The oath that MD take to not do harm to anyone is a joke as they go about doing their bogus training in burning/slashing/poisoning.

==================

By the way. next time you pop the top off that soda pop, most are around 2.1 on the ACID side of the scale. This soda pop is what informed electricans pour into underground pipes where concrete was spilled accidently to dislodge a slug about 13.1 on the scale.

Most all grains are acid forming, millet is one of the execption. Go buy some bird seed as it is mostly millet and it contains nothing to harm a delicate bird.

================

Gerry you keep talking about my credibility. Thanks for your concern, but...

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[:"blue"]Uh, so you make up your own definition as you go. If you have your own definitions for things, no wonder we have problem with communication! And so here again, you presume I drink soda pop, just like your presumption of me having a second house, attorney buddies, & lodge membership. BTW I rarely ever drink soda pop; I prefer good water. And for your information, when grain, & that includes millet, and ALL carbohydrates, when the body metabolizes & burns them, produces water & CO2, the latter being eliminated by the lungs. Buffers in the body prevents the blood pH from varying too much.

P.S. Since you are so high on cayenne pepper, should I make a poultice of it and apply it to my wife's eye for her glaucoma? [/]

Gerry

[Guest]

All this "running to the physicians" is unnecessary, unless you are just jogging to his office and back, then jump in a cold shower! There are sick people in that waiting room with real germs more deadly than yours.

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"Jesus is willing that we should come to him today. He is willing that we should touch him with the touch of faith, and receive virtue from him. We should have more health today, if, instead of running to the physicians, we would come to Christ for the balm of Gilead, and apply it to our souls." {RH, August 6, 1889 par. 10}

[Guest]

Gerry said. "P.S. Since you are so high on cayenne pepper, should I make a poultice of it and apply it to my wife's eye for her glaucoma?'

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No I wouldn't do that, just one grain would do wonders. But if it was me and really wanted to help her, I would walk hand in hand BAREFOOTED along the ocean beach from the Mexican border to San Diego claiming bible promises & singing the Fanny Crosby type songs.

[David_McQueen]

LOL...Ed, I guess we will beg to differ. I chose to believe that a definition for drugs is wider than one just kept in a book by Ellen White. That there are many spirit led Christians around the world who would share the same definition as I put forward.

Thanks for an interesting position on the subject though