Wolves in sheep's clothing....

[Ted Oplinger]

Ted, I don't care for the methods you employ in your ministry concerning Ellen White. So what, we all have an opinion. I don't need to justify my opinion with a lengthy analysis of it.

[Twilight II]

So are we saying that anyone who is critical of some of the churches decisions and positions is a "wolf in sheeps clothing"? :-)

Isn't critizing the critics the same thing that is being condemned?

If we want to get all judgemental and all? ;-)

[Twilight II]

Jesus was not one for getting into issues, but rather teaching His followers their need to be born again.

[ClubV12]

Ted, why do you have such a spirit that demands putting down others and making accusations because they disagree with your opinion or the methodology you employee in your ministry?

Just considering the fruit of your posts Ted, it's rather ugly. I don't agree with Stephen Bohrs analysis on Daniel 11:45 either. In fact, I think he violates the counsel of Ellen White in arriving at his opions on that verse. So what? Would you expect Bohr to get post a lengthy rebuke and question my character, ministry and methodology in response? I like Bohr, there are many things I appreciate about his work, I think he is Gods servant. But I still don't agree with him on some things.

The same goes for you Ted, I don't agree with your ministry and approach to how you teach Ellen White. Get over it, deal with it, get over your anger and resentment in some other than attacking those who don't praise your every post.

There is nothing in the Spirit of Prophecy that can't be found in the bible. But we, as a people, can't seem to find the principles that are outlined in the gift. Why is that? She tells us, because of our ignorance. The bible is just ambigous enough to where you can easily miss things or misinterpret things or not see what is plainly revealed. So what did the Father do? He gave us the principles of the bible in plain english, easy to understand and grasp, clearly layed out so none can miss the point.

And what have we done in response? Talk about how nice that is, while ignoring the bulk of the counsel. Just like we do with the bible, it's just easier to hide it when you use the bible, there is no hiding from the counsel of the spirit of prophecy.

So Ted, you comment that I am undermining the Church with my comments like the Church is in apostasy. I'm just repeating what the prophet has said, if you have an issue, take it up with her or the orginal author, the Holy Spirit. The Church is SO FAR removed from the blue print outlined in the gift of prophecy, anyone who can't see that is not reading the counsel.

Laodecia, eye salve, I didn't write that, God did. If you don't believe it, see Him about it.

This thread started out about off shoots and those improperly portraying themselves as Adventist who are not.

But CoAspen couldn't wait to turn that around and start pointing fingers at those within the Church. Nice work CoAspen, I note the fruit of your labor.

[Gail]

Jesus was not one for getting into issues, but rather teaching His followers their need to be born again.

Nice to see you, Mark- it's been a while

[Ted Oplinger]

Club - I wasn't the one castigating you or anyone else for how Ellen White related to the Holy Scriptures - that was you. And you did indeed get very ugly about it. I have patiently replied back, going point-by-point as needed to refute some of the more base insinuations of your "opinions" you have posted.

Rather than be angered by your continued implications from another thread, I am saddened.

I would humbly submit that, if you don't want a point-by-point analysis/rebuttal of your opinion about what work I do for God or how I teach Ellen White, then do yourself a favor - don't post it in the first place.

I would also humbly submit you have a far greater anger issue with me, than I do of you.

There is more than enough within your last reply to conclude we are not all that different in our approach to both SoP and the Scriptures...the difference is in execution of that approach.

Blessings,

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Ted, why do you have such a spirit that demands putting down others and making accusations because they disagree with your opinion or the methodology you employee in your ministry?

Ted doesn't need me (or anyone else) to defend him. Personally, I find him to be one of the most reasonable and eloquent people on this site. I admire (sometimes envy) how well he handles himself with people that differ with his views. Do I agree with him on 100% of his posts? No; but he presents himself in a way (to me at least) that is very reasonable and objective. I cannot think of a single response to any of the stuff I've ever posted (and I admit I post some crazy stuff, by SDA standards) where I have felt offended or attacked by him. He is not one of the "wolves" around here.

Club, (I mean the follwing comment as an honest question for you to think about - not an attack)is it possible that you are projecting on to Ted some of your own characteristics here? I know you don't mean to be offensive or overly aggressive; but I have felt offended and attacked by you on several occasions. I know you have felt the same things coming from me. That's OK; I confess that sometimes I wear my emotions on my typing fingers.

Blessings to you!

[ClubV12]

JoeMo, I never made any comment about Ted or his ministry in this thread BEFORE Ted, literally attacked ME. I am projecting nothing, I have simply stated my opinion concerning his approach to Ellen White, I don't care for it, don't support it.

So what? Get over it all you people in "Teds Fan Club".

Now Ted thinks he needs to DEFEND his position on Ellen White because it seems to him I made some kind of attack on the Church. He says I am undermining the Church by doing so. Precisely my views on HIS ministry, but I didn't mention HIS ministry, HE brought that up. Why?

The same reason most people do who go out of their way to attack my character and launch into lengthy sermons about "the bible and the bible only" and "we don't want to argue about Ellen White" and we "need more love". If you knew what LOVE WAS you wouldn't be attacking someone for quoting Ellen White in the first place!

IF you really knew what the bible was talking about what love is, you wouldn't attack either. But the simple fact is, YOU DON'T KNOW what the bible says about love!!! You search the scriptures because you THINK you can find it, and understand it. YOU CAN'T, you WON'T find it. THAT is why we have the Spirit of Prophecy, because we are to ignorant to figure it out from the "bible and the bible alone". IF we could, we wouldn't need the Spirit of Prophecy.

The same principles we find there, that so many fight against and complain about are the same principle in the BIBLE!!! By the same author!!! How many would DARE to treat the bible as they do Ellen Whites work? You wouldn't DARE, but without even thinking twice you dismiss Ellen White easily.

Ted, YOU are EXACTLY what I was talking about regarding how the Church treats the gift of prophecy. YOU are angry, feel compelled to defend the Church, your position. Insist you are doing the right thing and "go off" when someone quotes Ellen White. Exactly what I've been saying is EXACTLY what you have been doing Ted!!!

I love this Church, as did Ellen White. Simple fact is: This Church is in serious trouble, don't blame the messenger, that would be Ellen White. Wake up and smell the postum.

This thread was never about Ted, never had mention of Ted before he opened that can of worms.

[ClubV12]

"There is a little hope in one direction: Take the young men and women, and place them where they will come as little in contact with our churches as possible, that the low grade of piety which is current in this day shall not leaven their ideas of what it means to be a Christian."

Manuscript Releases, Volume 12 333

Is this the "ugly attack" on the Church you see Ted? Anybody?

I see counsel inspired by the Holy Spirit and recognize this says far more than the simple words I used, "the Church is in apostasy". I didn't even come close to saying it the way the Holy Spirit inspired Ellen White to say it!

I read this quote, not as the hammer some see, I see it as a divine warning and serious counsel. I ask, "What does it mean, how does it apply to me, what I should?" Others just want it to go away and not even talk about it! Condeming anyone who even MENTIONS as "undermining the Church".

Off shoots have read it and some have removed their membership and DO attack the Church! I read it and wonder, "What does it mean?"

So I left a large Church, moved to a smaller one, moved to the country, because I took this counsel seriously. I don't know YOU might see in it, but I have been blessed enormously by it!

[CoAspen]

Dude,

You seriously need to chill out! Your attacks are obvious to all! The .org, the leaders, the people, the preachers, etc!! I merely noted that 'wolves' are whith in and with out the church. The definition as Stan alluded to, can apply to any one. My thoughts were, and always have been, be careful about the finger pointing. God hasn't set that aside as the role of humans. Christ said He came to seek and save the lost, can we do any less? Remeber the Holy Spirit that was left for human kind? Do we seek to override its role in our own desire to be the individuals that brings others to God? Can we overstep our bounds? Think about it!!

[ClubV12]

Dude, you wanted to go on a witch hunt inside the Church, it's your party, enjoy the ride.

[CoAspen]

Projection...did you notice that I was pointing out your constant criticizing of the church? Somehow you missed it!! I support the church and those within it and without it. We have a difference of opinion. No one mentioned a 'witch hunt', that was your word. To say that we all have issues with finger pointing and complaining about the church is an observation.

My last attempt to make my thought clear......stan was noteing those who claim to be be SDA's and come to criticize and find fault, masquerading as fellow members. I brought up the idea that even we, as members, can present the same attitudes, masquerading as fellow members. The spirit we bring is more important than the words.

Adios,

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Projection...did you notice that I was pointing out your constant criticizing of the church? Somehow you missed it!!

Well put, CoAspen. That's pretty much what I was trying to say in my post.

[Woody]

Quote:

Projection...did you notice that I was pointing out your constant criticizing of the church? Somehow you missed it!!

Well put, CoAspen. That's pretty much what I was trying to say in my post.

Kudos to both of you.

[ClubV12]

"...did you notice that I was pointing out your constant criticizing of the church?"

And many on "Team Ted" might agree with your assesment. I don't, I think you are unable to discern the difference between "critique" and "criticize", but hey, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. It may be much more serious than that.

JoeMo, Woody, grab the pitch forks and lanterns, meet in the town square for the hangin'. Or, is this just a tag team match between the "Team Ted" members?

Whew, tough crowd, don't disagree with them, they get super angry and then talk about "love".

[JoeMo]

Quote:

JoeMo, Woody, grab the pitch forks and lanterns, meet in the town square for the hangin'. Or, is this just a tag team match between the "Team Ted" members?

Club - Dude!

Get a grip! No one is trying to hang you. No one is attacking you. I simply agreed with CoAspen's post; and Woody simply agreed with our posts. No one even mentioned you. You are doing the attacking. The fact that you can't see that is very disquieting. Quit taking stuff so personal. Like several of us have said before, just cuz we disagree with your opinions doesn't mean we "hate" you - we just disagree. We disagree not so much with your opinion; but with your tone.

Have you ever considered counselling for anger management?

Father God, pleace grant peace and serenity to Club; and give him discernment to tell the difference between simple disagreement and personal attack.

[ClubV12]

JoeMo, I don't like your "tone". You need to take responsibility for your criticizing me through the proxy of CoAspen and then denying you have done so.

Accusation by CoAspen:

"I was pointing out your constant criticizing of the church."

Confirmed and supported by Woody and JoeMo. I simply quoted Ellen White with a statement that had a significant impact on my life. I shared my testimony of what I have experienced in every Church I have attended as it concerns the general attitude of Ellen White. I never even mentioned Ted, he brought that on himself.

I'm at peace JoeMo, I'm not the one doing the criticizing, finger pointing or dog piling on someone who happens to hold an opinion you don't like.

Get over it JoeMo, you criticize and condem and don't even realize you are doing so! Confession needs to be specific and to the point, recognizing your sin. Repentance is a change of heart, a determination within yourself that you will not do that sin again. Forgiveness cannot take place without step one and step two. This thought brought to you by the Spirit of Prophecy, if you don't like the "tone", take up with the author. But please, leave me out of it, just keep your criticism to yourself.

[Ted Oplinger]

"...did you notice that I was pointing out your constant criticizing of the church?"

And many on "Team Ted" might agree with your assesment. I don't, I think you are unable to discern the difference between "critique" and "criticize", but hey, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. It may be much more serious than that.

JoeMo, Woody, grab the pitch forks and lanterns, meet in the town square for the hangin'. Or, is this just a tag team match between the "Team Ted" members?

Whew, tough crowd, don't disagree with them, they get super angry and then talk about "love".

Wow...that is one obvious play of the victim card there, Club. I would not have thought that simply disagreeing with your opinion would be construed as a personal attack. I think it explains a lot of what I see from thread, to thread, to thread.

Club - you're carrying over the bad vibes from the 'Shock! SDA's leave for non-SDA doctrine' thread, where you quite willfully and seriously yanked on a phrase I used. Give it a rest - please.

There isn't a "Team Ted" tag teaming here - I have crossed paths in disagreement with each who are posting. It's the manner of our disagreeing that's different - where we disagree beyond our points made, we simply agree to disagree. No need for the emotional fluff.

The only hangin' going on here is what you're doing to yourself, given enough rope.

Prayers and Blessings,

[ClubV12]

Ted, I find your constant need to uphold your character by pointing out the flaws of others and fanning the flames to be disrespectful and rude.

Nothing personal you understand, I just don't like your "tone".

"No need for the emotional fluff." I agree, so knock it off will you, please?

Here's a thought, try responding to the THREAD and stop the personal insults and lengthy analysis of why a member has a character flaw that bothers you.

I don't care for your ministry style, but I didn't bring that issue up here Ted, YOU DID. So stop dragging your issues from one thread to the next.

[JoeMo]

Club,

I am going to take the advice of others; and just drop this issue; and drop this thread. God bless you; and may everyone have a happy and peaceful Sabbath.

[Stan]

go stand in the corner, both of you and no talking.

(I always wanted to be a teacher)

[ClubV12]

Thanks Stan.

"There is a little hope in one direction: Take the young men and women, and place them where they will come as little in contact with our churches as possible, that the low grade of piety which is current in this day shall not leaven their ideas of what it means to be a Christian."

Manuscript Releases, Volume 12 333

This IS a quote I have often heard from those outside the Church, in many cases, still claiming to be members of the Church.

I still wonder what to make of it. It's a very difficult quote to deal with concerning off shoots.

[Tom Wetmore]

Moderator Note:

I have gone back and reviewed this topic to see why it has gone off the rails into an ad hominem snit-fest. Quite frankly it seems that there has been a serious over-reaction growing out of an apparent significant misreading of other members posts. That has largely been the doing of one person. Club, you are out of line. You have over-reacted, taking things personally that are not even directed at you personally, and apparently misread or misunderstand what others are saying. You need to tone it down considerably. Now.

I am posting this here as I cannot PM you since your inbox is full. Do not reply to this post. Send me a PM if you want to discuss the matter with me.

If this off-topic personal jousting continues this thread will need to be temporarily locked for a cool down.

[JoeMo]

<<Standing in corner with nose in a circle on the wall. Knuckles bleeding from ruler beating.>>

[ClubV12]

Consider the history, not the first time the same players have launched into a dedicated attack mode.

Bullying, I didn't start this fire. I should not have to be afraid to post my thoughts without fear of being hammered and denigrated for my comments. If I AM, I WILL return fire, because bullying in all forms is a serious internet problem. It needs to be looked into.