Are you a Pharisee?

[ChildofChrist]

I care for an elderly person that was raised in the SDA faith to SDA parents; married a SDA and raised three children. (The daughter left the church as a young rebellious teen who ran from home.); lived in a SDA community and worked for a SDA facility and retired. Instead of accepting people as they are, they've has been beginning to 'judge' folks without stopping to consider factors.

This evening at 65 minutes prior to sunset, our newly married neighbor's husband left in a loaded moving box truck to be on the way and pass some challenging sections of the road before everything gets too dark.

I noted the truck passing the house aloud and this senior began to cluck, "That's not right. It is still Sabbath!"

Perhaps it is just me. I see the truck was loaded on Thursday. It's been gassed up and he has miles to go. Leaving 65 minutes for just driving I see as no big deal. I use to drive further than that on Sabbath morning to attend a special church service at the invitation of friends...say baptism or baby dedication. On Sabbath I will go visit shut-ins while my senior friend sits and reads alone for the most part. ("Shhhh, I'm reading")

What do you say? Is this person being a Pharisee or am I being not 'strict' enough myself?

[OzarkWoman]

It is not our business what others do. It is between them and their God. We are not to judge. PERIOD!!!!

[debbym]

if you say something to correct the women, you are doing just what she did.

it is the work of the Holy Spirit to convict you of your sin, no one brings conviction to you by judging you, and then announcing it to you. and the same with this woman and the neighbor.

i let these things rest and any response i have i lay before the lord, he knows all of my weaknesses and failings all too well, and is forbearing and gracious to me. i pray i will be the same to all of his other children.

[Ted Oplinger]

Amen to what OW and DebbyM said above.

One of the hardest temptations for the enlightened to keep from indulging in, is the sin of judgmentalism. It walks the fine line between truth and error, as truth does require us to decide what is right and what is error.

The sin is applying what God has convicted us of, to another person whose enlightenment level and walk we are in ignorance of. Only the Holy Spirit can make that call.

In the situation in the OP, I'd make a call on what I'd do in that situation, but not for someone else rolling down the road. I believe it is better to err on the side of mercy and benefit of the doubt, and leave it in God's hands.

Blessings,

[Kevin H]

Jesus was a Pharisee, a big part of his problem was that he did not join just one school of the Pharisees and fight for all the applications of that school right or wrong, but quoted freely from all schools. Paul died saying that he was a Pharisee.

Pharisees were some rabbis and mostly lay people interested in studying the Bible. Granted there were also other groups with a different approach to the Bible, and the Samarians which took a form of Judaism where there was once a Priest who saw David as having too much compromised with the world and wanted a more Biblical form of worship including worshiping on the mountain that the Bible said to worship on and choose only texts that did not have the David influence. However Pharisees tended to fit with in one group that was still open to the post David writings and the temple. They included those who were truly born again, those who were wanting to have a relationship with God and would do the right things but not trust God, and there were hypocrites that wanted people to see how pious they were and all shades in between.

I do think that this situation was more critical than should have been. If we study out the Sabbath texts we find that there were different levels in what it meant to keep the Sabbath in different points of history. Sadly, when we look at Paul's travels we find him in one place one day and in another place later and for some of those to work out it would mean having traveled on the Sabbath.

[debbym]

Quote:

One of the hardest temptations for the enlightened to keep from indulging in, is the sin of judgmentalism. It walks the fine line between truth and error, as truth does require us to decide what is right and what is error.

next to this one i would add spiritual pride, that takes credit to oneself what only God is doing in the heart, and bottom line is we can do nothing without him, so we have no basis for pride in what God does in us. but that pattern of taking credit for what we do... takes nothing less then Jesus sacrifice to break it in us.

this taking credit i think is the basis for comparing ourselves to others and seeing them come up short.

this was actually the sin of Moses when he failed at the Jordan, and could not enter in to the promise land. so it is a very tricky sin, for Moses walked close to God.

[Textus Receptus]

It all boils down to context, the character of the person and the heart. We have examples in the bible to direct our actions for such cases. David ate the shewbread from the temple in the book of Samuel; the disciples gleaned the fields to eat on the Sabbath (Luke 6:1); Jesus healed on the Sabbath (Mark 3:1.)

With the exception of the last example, what they have have in common is that they were all unusual circumstances nor did in any of the examples reveal that they profited monetarily nor did any other by their actions.

David and the diciples were hungry, so they ate. Of course God would not allow us to be hungry. David did not eat the shewbread nor did the disciples glean on a regular basis on the Sabbath. yet, this does not mean you can go to a restaurant on the Sabbath because you were too lazy to shop the day before. Will your actions cause a brother to stumble? Again, it is a matter of context. Do you do all that you can do to ensure that the sabbath will not be broken by the world? So, with regards to your original question, are we being pharisitic when we judge?

We are not to judge others for their actions, yet if they are members of the body of Christ, we are to instruct those who are in error using the scriptures. However, if we are instructing or showing error out of pride this is not being Christlike and therefore against God's will. Obviously, it is difficult to judge people whether they are doing it out of pride only God can determine the human heart. The bible is clear that if you have an issue with a brother or sister, you are to go to them directly, otherwise keep opinions to yourself. It is out of pride or a fallen character that people gossip.

It is my humble opinion that if a discussion is not done for the benefit of the church such as in an administrative circumstance, or if the person in question is not confronted with no real intent of acting to correct the issue using the church, it is gossip.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Jesus was a Pharisee

Merriam-Webster

Quote:

Definition of PHARISAICAL

: marked by hypocritical censorious self-righteousness

— phar·i·sa·ical·ly adverb

— phar·i·sa·ical·ness noun

Would you care to clarify your statement using the Bible?

God cares!

[phkrause]

LHC, I'd say the difference between now and than of the word Pharisee, is probably a good bet.

[joeb]

I'd be interested in seeing how you classified Jesus as a Pharisee too, Kevin. Not from the meaning of the word like LHC used, but because Jesus was not educated in the schools of the Pharisees, nor was He a member of the ruling class. Both being educated in the schools of the Pharisees and being a member of the ruling class were requisites for being a Pharisee in Christ's time.

Jesus, in fact, attacked the Pharisees in at least a couple of ways. He attacked their ideas of righteousness and their power by drawing the average Jew away from following them and buying into their way of thinking by revealing their hypocrisy and showing how little of the scriptures they actually understood.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

this was actually the sin of Moses when he failed at the Jordan, and could not enter in to the promise land.

My understanding of Moses being denied right to go into the promised land was his failing to follow God's express command, to speak to the rock the second time to bring forth water, after having struck the rock once the first time for the same purpose, thereby giving an object lesson of the full plan of salvation through Jesus, Who was first struck for our salvation and subsequently only needing to be spoken to for salvation.

Not only did Moses strike the rock twice, contrary to God's instruction to speak to the rock, but he struck it in a temper tantrum as if he were the one enabling the water to flow, thereby failing to sanctify the Lord's purpose for the object lesson.

Moses attributing the bringing forth water as through him and some other, would of course reveal this personal pride you mentioned.

"“You and Aaron must take the staff and assemble the entire community. As the people watch, speak to the rock over there, and it will pour out its water. You will provide enough water from the rock to satisfy the whole community and their livestock.”

So Moses did as he was told. He took the staff from the place where it was kept before the Lord. Then he and Aaron summoned the people to come and gather at the rock. “Listen, you rebels!” he shouted. “Must we bring you water from this rock?” Then Moses raised his hand and struck the rock twice with the staff, and water gushed out.

And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them."Numbers 20:8-12 NLT

God cares!

[Kevin H]

I'd be interested in seeing how you classified Jesus as a Pharisee too, Kevin. Not from the meaning of the word like LHC used, but because Jesus was not educated in the schools of the Pharisees, nor was He a member of the ruling class. Both being educated in the schools of the Pharisees and being a member of the ruling class were requisites for being a Pharisee in Christ's time.

Jesus, in fact, attacked the Pharisees in at least a couple of ways. He attacked their ideas of righteousness and their power by drawing the average Jew away from following them and buying into their way of thinking by revealing their hypocrisy and showing how little of the scriptures they actually understood.

Actually, according to the books on the topic I've read and what I studied in AUC, Andrews and the Jerusalem Center for Biblical Studies, it was the Sadducees who needed to be a member of the ruling class. While the Pharisees would contain most of the leading Rabbis, the majority of them were lay members with an open dedication to religion being the center of their life. While he did not study in the schools of the Rabbis and residents of Nazareth only had a formal up to 6th Grade education, which is focused on reading, writing, math and the Bible itself, with the next year being where they start studying the Rabbis (but you would have to leave Nazareth to get that education).

It has been discovered that Jesus did a large amount of quoting, mostly of the Bible (scholars are saying that if you translate the Greek back into Hebrew instead of Aramaic, that we find Jesus quoting scripture a lot more than we recognize from the Greek and other translations; but also that Jesus quoted other Rabbis but without footnoting them, not saying who his authorities were, and that he quoted from Rabbis of different schools making a whole new teaching that the segmented Rabbis could not get with in their subgroups of Judaism).

[debbym]

Quote:

“Listen, you rebels!” he shouted. “Must we bring you water from this rock?” Then Moses raised his hand and struck the rock twice with the staff, and water gushed out.

Moses condemned them, and was provoked in view of his judgement of them. and he took credit for giving them water, "must we bring you water out of this rock."

he took to himself credit for what God was doing. he slipped into his carnal nature and failed to represent God by his attitude, and then he failed to have a surrendered will and disobeyed.

what would have happened if no water had come out when he struck the rock, i think it would have stunned him right there.

what is awesome is that God's love for Moses never blinked. and i am sure Moses repented. we are not judged based on infrequent failures, but by the habitual decisions of Choosing Christ, in the daily life.

the people looked to him so much, and i am sure this gave rise to the temptation. He carried them on his heart in every way, food, worship, water, court. i am sure he oversaw any major problem, after he got some help with mediation of the social ills. also Moses loved the people, he at one time asked God to take his name out of the book of life to save them.

[joeb]

Originally Posted By: joeb

I'd be interested in seeing how you classified Jesus as a Pharisee too, Kevin. Not from the meaning of the word like LHC used, but because Jesus was not educated in the schools of the Pharisees, nor was He a member of the ruling class. Both being educated in the schools of the Pharisees and being a member of the ruling class were requisites for being a Pharisee in Christ's time.

Jesus, in fact, attacked the Pharisees in at least a couple of ways. He attacked their ideas of righteousness and their power by drawing the average Jew away from following them and buying into their way of thinking by revealing their hypocrisy and showing how little of the scriptures they actually understood.

Actually, according to the books on the topic I've read and what I studied in AUC, Andrews and the Jerusalem Center for Biblical Studies, it was the Sadducees who needed to be a member of the ruling class. While the Pharisees would contain most of the leading Rabbis, the majority of them were lay members with an open dedication to religion being the center of their life. While he did not study in the schools of the Rabbis and residents of Nazareth only had a formal up to 6th Grade education, which is focused on reading, writing, math and the Bible itself, with the next year being where they start studying the Rabbis (but you would have to leave Nazareth to get that education).

It has been discovered that Jesus did a large amount of quoting, mostly of the Bible (scholars are saying that if you translate the Greek back into Hebrew instead of Aramaic, that we find Jesus quoting scripture a lot more than we recognize from the Greek and other translations; but also that Jesus quoted other Rabbis but without footnoting them, not saying who his authorities were, and that he quoted from Rabbis of different schools making a whole new teaching that the segmented Rabbis could not get with in their subgroups of Judaism).

By the "ruling class" I'm talking about men such as Nicodemus and Joseph of Aramithaea who were very influential because of their wealth. The average Jew never made it into "halls of the Pharisee". Read what Ellen White has to say about this. The average guy back then would get kicked out of the "church" if he so much as dared to question a rabbi. Jesus came out of the "average guy" background. Not the wealthy class or the "educated class". The majority of his education came via His parents.

You can disagree if you want, but I'll take the inspired account of His life every time over all other sources.

[Kevin H]

Joeb, although there were some very major leaders among the Pharisees, such as you pointed out, and the Sanhedrin consisted of both Pharisee and Sadducee leaders and the major Rabbis were Pharisees, the were a large amount of Pharisees among the "average guy" background.

The Sadducees were all leaders, but the Pharisees had both leaders and average guys.