C Raymond Holmes on the debate.

[Gregory Matthews]

C. Raymond Holmes, is a well-known, former Lutheran pastor, who converted to the SDA denomination. He had been educated at Andrews, served as a SDA pastor and is currently a member of the General Conference Ordination Committee.

He is known for his book: “The Tip of an Iceberg,” which takes a strong position against the ordination of women.

In a recent article, he clarifies his current view on female ordination:

Quote:

If I were to write my book “The Tip of an Iceberg” now, I would change some things—not the basic content, but the way I say them.”

* * * * * *

[in my final remarks, January, 2013, to the Theology of Ordination Committee, I said]. . . we have some repenting to do. I meant two things: not only do we need to rescind the action that caused all this agony, specifically the 1975 action allowing for the ordination of local women elders, because the action is in conflict with I Timothy 3:2 and Titus 1: 5 and Titus 6:2, but we also need to repent personally, for the agony we may have caused others. I think we all have some repenting to do, on both sides.

* * * * *

How can we deal with the differences if we can’t get past our feelings? I have sensed sublimated hostility and anger on both sides. . . . Somehow, we have to get past that.

See Gary Burns & C. Raymond Holmes, “Perspectives on Ordination—Divergent Views in the Spirit of Unity.” SPECTRUM, Volume 41, Issue 2, Spring 2013, Pages 54 – 58.

[olger]

Thank Greg.

I am in agreement that when we compromised the 1975 action to allow women elders, we created a theological boo-boo. We should, in my opinion, revoke that action, and find other places for women to serve (there aren't that many woman elders) and present a new balance of faith that is true to Scripture. This will build maturity and set the Scriptural stage for the final generation that will see Jesus come.

Rejoice always,

G

[Tom Wetmore]

When I see such hardened extreme views expressed by some on that committee and see views from others totally in the far opposite direction, I have to wonder how will that group ever come up with a consensus view to report to the Annual Council. Heaven help us all...

[Woody]

It really does not matter what the appointed committee comes up with. It will not be accepted by half of the church population.

[Neil D]

RE: C. Raymond Holmes, is a well-known, former Lutheran pastor, who converted to the SDA denomination.* * * * * *

Quote:

[in my final remarks, January, 2013, to the Theology of Ordination Committee, I said]. . . we have some repenting to do. I meant two things: not only do we need to rescind the action that caused all this agony, specifically the 1975 action allowing for the ordination of local women elders, because the action is in conflict with I Timothy 3:2 and Titus 1: 5 and Titus 6:2, but we also need to repent personally, for the agony we may have caused others. I think we all have some repenting to do, on both sides.

* * * * *

"Titus 6:2"???

I don't see a Titus 6.....He give 2 texts, one of which gives the qualification of a male Elder who, among other things, is the spouse of ONE wife.....and the other text deals with appointing elders in one town in Crete....But Titus 6 is non-existant in my bible and other electronic bibles that I have attempted to search.....

[olger]

"If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre." Titus 1:5-6

"And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation." (Revelation 7:13-14)

"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:" (1 Peter 5:1).

"And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed" (Acts 14:23).

"And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present" (Acts 21:18).

"For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly" (Titus 1:5-6).