There ought to be a law...

[cricket]

...or should there?

Recently I have received a request to pray for a family in spiritual crisis. The situation is as follows:

A young boy, 15, chose to give his heart to God and requested baptism by his pastor. This boy was born into a religious family; his parents separated when he was approximately 4 years old. From that time, one of his parents continued to raise him according to the faith. The other parent, still very active in his life, chose to shun this particular faith.

At the recommendation of the pastor, this boy received Bible studies from the associate pastor, and was "determined" to be of sound mind and the associate pastor recommended that he receive baptism.

A date was set. The boy's religious parent attended the baptism; the non-religious parent was not in attendance.

The church family rejoiced!

Over time, it was discovered that this boy had not told his non-religious parent about the baptism. The non-religious parent was completely unaware of the events that had taken place.

Now, the non-religious parent is quite upset with the events that have taken place over the past few months. This parent is displeased to have been uninformed and is angered with the lack of communication between the parties involved.

While I have prayed that all will work according to His plans, I have also been contemplating the idea of laws regarding our children in religious environments.

A child cannot enter into a legally binding contract until he is 18 years of age (without the backing of his parents). A child cannot enter the armed forces until he is 18 years of age. A child cannot purchase cigarettes until he is 17 years of age. A child cannot marry until he/she reaches maturity (ages are different by state) without the consent of the parents.

Why is it then, that a child can make the choice to contract his life with God at a young age? Why is it not required that he/she be of a "legal age of maturity" to make these decisions?

[Gregory Matthews]

The legal decision was made by the religious parent, not the boy.

[Beryl]

Most decisions for baptism come at the ages of 12 - 15. We cannot make a law against the workings of the Holy Spirit. At the age of 12 Jesus realised in a real sense that He was indeed the Lamb of God. Those early teen years are the ages of decisions.

[Neil D]

Christine...

Are you worried about communication within the familys or that the child should be 18 years of age before a contract with God is made?

This is "knee jerking" question is made to clarify what I do not comprehend as a interfamily communication problem complicated by divorce and selfish desires. Why make a law???

How about a policy?

[Dr. Shane]

To put the issue in a different light. Let's say it is a functional Christian home. Both parents are married, dad has a steady job, mom works out of the home and everyone is happy. The 14 year old son gets caught up with some Muslem group and wants to become Muslem. Should he have religious freedom or should the parents be able to control him until he is 18?

Now in divorced situations, like the case starting this thread, I think either parent should have the right to expose the child to religion and authorize the child's participation in such - even if the other parent doesn't know.

[Bravus]

Baptism is not a legal, enforceable contract. There is not a legal issue here, and I would strongly resist making a law so that there was one.

There is a moral issue here, which is that the believing parent should have communicated better with his/her ex about an issue that was relevant to the child they had together. That person didn't need to seek consent, but informing would have been polite, and would have forestalled potential problems. Who knows, it could even be that the non-believing parent would have liked to attend the baptism - not as a believer, but as a parent at an important public event in her/his child's life.

[Naomi]

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dgrimm60 said:

AS for as not letting the parent that is not

interested in this faith maybe the child did

not want any confrontation??????

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I would say that was most likely the child's reason.

(LOL, before I continue, please understand that hard as I try, I simply have never been able to conform to what is expected of me. To follow rules of expected conduct just doesn't seem to work well for me. Oh well....)

From experience I know that children do not always want to share with their parents what the parent would not understand or sanction.

My story: The summer of my 12th year I attended vacation Bible school and summer camp and some other activities (simular to Pathfinders) with friends of another faith. We lived in a rural area and there were no SDA children with whom to associate. My friends parents paid for me attend summer camp with their children.

During camp I became extremely moved to be baptized there in the lake, and join the Family Of God. I knew my family would be most displeased. In numerous conversations with the leaders of the camp it was decided that when you are "called" to make the decision it is not a decision for a denomination but for God. And, that it is a dangerous thing to not follow what is in your heart. One of the ministers said that he would not want to face God on Judgment Day if they refused my request. The discussion was along the lines of what if my life somehow ended before I had another opportunity to make my choice. Finally it was decided that I was being baptized by immersion in the Name Of The Father, Son & Holy Spirit. Not into their particular denomination. And, that when I choose to tell my family would be at my discretion. No one from the church or the camp ever spoke of it in our small home community.

I have never shared this with my family. Unless I have family members who are reading my story, they still do not know. Would serve no purpose. The following year I was again baptized SDA minister, and my family rejoiced.

The first time was the one that I shall always remember with that special feeling of excitement, dedication and commitment. It was the one which I felt impressed to make, the second time was a formality that made my earthly family happy. Our Father in Heaven knows our hearts and our reasons.

The legal age set by the government is a one-size-fits-all the Holy Spirit is individualized.

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dgrimm60 said: but if any one choses to be a part of GOD AND JESUS then I say lets rejoice and

pray for them

dgrimm60

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Amen and Amen

_____________

As to this young person's situation, the story is out. The non-christian parent will just have to deal with it.

[Dr. Shane]

Thank you for sharing your story, Sister Naomi. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[cricket]

Shane's point about the Muslim choice is kind of what I was thinking of.

What if this boy's parent was a religious witch? Was a practicing Satanist, or a practicing Wiccan, or anything that Christians would find objectionable. What if the "baptism" was a ritual of giving one's self to serve Satan or _________ or again, anything objectionable to most Christians?

It could be argued that this boy was being brainwashed, couldn't it? It could be argued that this boy was being mentally forced into doing something he was not truly ready for.

As an atheist, my own father was appalled at the religious decisions I'd made as a child. He was not supportive at all and indeed, felt as if I were being brainwashed. There was no legal course of action he could have taken.

Scarily, if it had been my father that raised me, I, too might be an atheist today. As there could have been no legal course of action that my mother could have taken.

Just thoughts. Just curious as to others' thoughts.

[Dr. Shane]

I believe there are laws that allow parents to control their teenagers to a degree. However a parent has the right to share their religion with their child even if they are divorced and do not have custody.

[Gregory Matthews]

There may be a legal issue when clergy baptize minor choldren without the permission of their parents.

NOTE: There is a church who once attempted to do that wholesale. Children were invited to attend some seemingly neutral type thing, and came home baptized.

[Gregory Matthews]

Maybe not. In some divorce cases the judge has issued an order that a parent neither share the parent's religious beleifs, or take the child to services.

[Dr. Shane]

I suspect laws vary from state to state, but shouldn't a parent have the right to share their faith with their child? Especially if they are a member of a religious organization that is recognized by the government (i.e. tax exempt).

[NormF]

It's curious how governmental approval - tax exemption - confers validation on an entity.... Am having my doubts that's what's needed here.

The problem with the idea of "sharing one's faith," whether with children or in any other way, is that the devil is in the details. How one person goes about doing that and how another may can be very distinctly different. Yet both call it sharing their faith.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

---

Christine Wall said:

...or should there?

---

It seems to me Jesus saw a great deal more credibility to the young child in reference to issues of committment to His kingdom, than He did to His "older" children.

It also appears that our Father has kept the way open for those in this world's lesser recognized, to join Jesus in mutual recognition.

Would laws improve the situation. I doubt it.

[:"red"] "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. " [/] Matthew 18:2-4 NASB

[:"red"] "Therefore, anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven." [/] Matthew 18:4 NLT

[Naomi]

Just tacking on here........

I think there is a big difference between "sharing one's faith and "Living one's faith" There are no laws preventing either parent of whatever faith from living their life in accordance with the value system their faith embraces.

I have a friend whose mother was Italian Catholic and married a Southern Baptist man. The father agreed to raise the children Catholic. The children went to Catholic schools. The mother didn't drive, every Sunday and for other events the father would talk his family to church and remain in the car reading the paper or whatever. Their father never said anything against the Catholic church or beliefs.

Today my friend and his 4 sisters are not Catholic but members of various other protestant churches. Their reason? They learned more about the teachings of Christ from watching their father in his daily life than from all of their exposure through education, church attendance, etc.

The greatest sermons ever preached are not spoken.

Naomi

[Naomi]

Hey Doug,

I truly love it when you follow up on one of my post. I use way too many words in an attempt to make a point and you "read" my meaning and put it into terms that are to the point.

That's teamwork, wouldn't you say? <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/coolhello.gif" alt="" />

Cheers!

Naomi

[Dr. Shane]

Even though I am not a Muslem, Jehova Witness, Christian Scientist or Mormon, I think it wrong to forbid a divorced parent that belongs to one of these faiths from sharing it with his children and allowing them to participate if they choose.