olger Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Really? HMS Richards was opposed to female headship. And so is the overwhelming majority of our church. And so is the Bible, And so... `G Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 People who misunderstand scripture oppose female leadership. But praise God ... the majority of SDA understand how clear the Bible is. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 "The Church is like a swimming pool, most of the noise comes from the shallow end."—W.H. Vanstone Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 "The Church is like a swimming pool, most of the noise comes from the shallow end."—W.H. Vanstone Are you insinuating that I'm in over my head, Woody, or is that a flat out statement? Hope you have a God cares! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 "The Church is like a swimming pool, most of the noise comes from the shallow end."—W.H. Vanstone Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 Really? HMS Richards was opposed to female headship. And so is the overwhelming majority of our church. And so is the Bible, And so... `G And HMS Richards was into "Jesus freaks" also... And the overwhelming majority of our church is outside the US, nurturing a different culture than we are.... As for the bible, Junia was "outstanding among Apostles" so apparently, there was some female leadership....As for "headship", you are inserting something that is NOT in the bible.... You will not find the word "headship" for either men nor for women...The concept is not defined by the bible, nor is the word in the bible.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body." Any attempt to claim two separate orders for marriage and the church ignores the biblical symbolic significance between redemption and marriage. The end result for liberals is the rejection of order itself. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 How do you figure that there is "two separate orders for marriage and the church"? Especially when there is the claim by Paul also that says- For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female;for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s [c]descendants, heirs according to promise And Jesus laid this principle down thru in Matthew- But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. 26 It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, 27 and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many With the emphasis on servants and bond servants in all that we do, which is a biblical concept, how can the concept of headship, which leads to authoritarianism ....and which shows it's behavior as control, and in the extreme/conservative, abuse... of emotional, spiritual,and physical, how can this concept even be considered???? And your interpretation of this text "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body." ...is not about "headship" in the sense that the male is lording it over his wife.... IN CONTEXT, you have to remember this text was directed to wives....not at husbands....That alone provide a deep eroding of your interpretation....Especially when the make- up of women is such that they are thinking selflessly anyways. ...and as has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread- Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted June 23, 2013 Administrators Share Posted June 23, 2013 ...Whether Junias or Junia is male or female - doesn't matter. The Bible is still clear that an elder or bishop is to be the "husband of one wife." And Paul also said that a diakonos (from which we derive "deacon" and the word most frequently translated as "minister" in the NT.) was to be the "husband of one wife." And yet Paul himself called Phoebe a diakonos. As a woman diakonos it is reasonable to conclude that she neither had a wife nor was she a husband. I don't think Paul was contradicting himself. So what does that phrase that is translated as "husband of one wife" mean then? The phrase is literally "one woman man". It is an idiomatic phrase that means "monogamous". That is how Paul could consistently state that a diakonos should "one woman man" and also call Phoebe a diakonos; she satisfied that qualification since she was monogamous. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted June 23, 2013 Administrators Share Posted June 23, 2013 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body." Any attempt to claim two separate orders for marriage and the church ignores the biblical symbolic significance between redemption and marriage. The end result for liberals is the rejection of order itself. How many heads does the church have? (Hint - it is right there in the verse you have quoted...) Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 So what does that phrase that is translated as "husband of one wife" mean then? I thought about this for a good while, and eventually concluded that it means "husband of one wife." `G Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Gerry, it seems you're a fundamental, heterosexual Christian. You may be sent for counselling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted June 23, 2013 Administrators Share Posted June 23, 2013 Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore So what does that phrase that is translated as "husband of one wife" mean then? I thought about this for a good while, and eventually concluded that it means "husband of one wife." `G Does that mean you take the Bible as literally written in English? Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Gerry, it seems you're a fundamental, heterosexual Christian. You may be sent for counselling. Ah, yes. The pre-frontal non surgical lobotomy reserved for those who refuse to worship the progressive new world order. Might as well throw in sensitivity training, while we're at it. Ps. It gets worse. I am Caucasian too. And heterosexual. [sigh..] Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Quote: ..take the bible literally.. olger, you've been warned.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Buchenwald, here we come... Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Does that mean you take the Bible as literally written in English? It means that I accept the Bible as the inspired Word of God, which is able to make me wise unto salvation (need all the help I can get). Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted June 23, 2013 Members Share Posted June 23, 2013 Buchenwald, here we come... I suppose for someone who didn't have any relatives perish in one of the concentration camps, this would be an "okay" statement.... maybe... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Ach. Gott segne und behute dich! Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Die camps kommen wieder.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Ich hoffe nicht, `G Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 ..piece of cake with social media. Better to move to the country, than getting moved to a country club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 How many heads does the church have? (Hint - it is right there in the verse you have quoted...) How many bosses does Lockheed have? Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 How many bosses does Lockheed have? Lockheed has a female CEO...Our church has one male, who is managing the church, but technically, our church has neither male nor female as the CEO..... So, I am a bit confused by your attempt to be coy....Can you speak a bit more plainly ? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I suspect there could be another term used in this connection: Biblicists! Biblicists could be the people who understand certain portions of the Bible as literal, those that agree with their own prepositions, while ignoring other sections of the Bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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