Covenant Marriage

[Dr. Shane]

In another forum at C/A we have been discussing changing the wedding vows and I have mentioned Covenant Marriages. Three states have Covenant Marriage laws (Arkansas, Arizona & Louisiana). Covenant Marriages are optional. A couple can get married the regular way (which allows no-fault divorce) or choose a covenant marriage. The covenant marriage requires premarital counseling before a marriage lisence. It also requires counseling before a divorce and only permits divorce for limited reasons.

>>> Covenant Marriage <<<

Many Christian political activists talk a lot about banning gay marriage in order to protect marriage. Well, shouldn't we deal with the 800 lb elephant in the living room if we want to protect marriage?

[aldona]

That's a good idea.

Which do you think dishonors the institution of marriage more in the eyes of unbelievers?

1. A same-sex couple who want to legalize their love and commitment by getting "married".

2. The fact that Evangelical Christians have a higher divorce rate than the population average.

aldona

[Beryl]

Would that be because more non-Christians would cohabitate without a legal marriage for perhaps years before coming to a final commitment, whereas the Christian would be more likely to marry first?

Beryl

[Dr. Shane]

Gay marriage is a subject for another thread. Let's not sidetrack this one there.

The divorce rate among Christians is about 2% more than the population in general. Covenant Marriage isn't going to cure that but it is a good start. One big issue is getting couples into counseling before it is too late. It isn't about stopping divorce by law, it is about making the law more family-friendly so divorces can be avoided.

[there buster]

Quote:

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Which do you think dishonors the institution of marriage more in the eyes of unbelievers?

1. A same-sex couple who want to legalize their love and commitment by getting "married".

2. The fact that Evangelical Christians have a higher divorce rate than the population average.

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#2 Dishonors marriage

#1 Dishonors logic

"Love" is never illegal, neither is commitment. I love my daughters, and my son, and I am committed to them. Since those things are not currently illegal, they cannot be what is at issue.

Since neither their love nor their commitment is currently illegal, it must be something else that is being sought.

Is it the right to mate? But they are physically prevented from mating. No law will change that, either.

Every culture allows the dissolution of a marrieage where there is no consummation. This means that the act of consummation must lie at the heart of marriage.

It follows, then, that what "same sex couples" seek is legal recognition of their particular type of consummation. They want us to consider them "mated" even though they cannot be.

Abe Lincoln once asked, "If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a cow have." And his litener responded, "Five." To which Lincoln replied. "No, a cow only has four legs. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it so."

"Gay marriage" is calling a tail a leg. What's being sought is a legal fiction.

[Dr. Shane]

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CoAspen said:

Re:Sidetracking.... </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Many Christian political activists talk a lot about banning gay marriage in order to protect marriage.

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Maybe you want to delete that part of your original statement! <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Let me reword:

Many Christians focus on the harm gay marriage will bring to the family unit when they should be more concerned about the harm divorce is already doing to the family. Let's not make the same mistake by focusing on gay marriage ourselves!!!

[Dr. Shane]

My letter to my state representative (I sent one just like it to my state senator):

Dear Representative Martinez:

With the issue of gay marriage getting a lot of press many have overlooked the havoc that broken homes cause the family. While gay marriage may threaten the traditional family unit, as it seems to have done in a couple of European countries, divorce and single parenthood are major social ills in our society. Divorce is such an easy option, many leave a marriage without even trying to stick it out a couple of more years or seeking counseling.

The results of the broken homes are little boys and girls growing up without a daddy in the home. Little boys don’t learn how to be men. They don’t learn a man’s responsibility is to go to work everyday and bring home a paycheck. Little girls become so desperate for a man’s attention they jump into bed with boys when they are only 13 and 14. The result is more boys in prison and more girls raising still more children without a father in the home.

It doesn’t seem that religion helps a lot. I suspect it does among the dedicated but among professing Christians the divorce rate is actually a little bit higher than that of society in general. The states of Arizona, Louisiana, and Arkansas have given clergy a tool to use. It is called Covenant Marriage. You can learn more about this at www.covenantmarriage.com. "The couple who chooses to enter into a Covenant Marriage agrees to be bound by two serious limitations on obtaining a divorce or separation. These limitations do not apply to other married couples. The couple legally agrees to seek marital counseling if problems develop during the marriage and the couple can only seek a divorce or legal separation for limited reasons."

I want to encourage you to push the Covenant Marriage option. While most in the state are not likely to choose to this option, if it is a law, those in churches can be encouraged to go this direction by the clergy. That could mean the divorce rate among Christians could actually become less than the general public. The Covenant Marriage option gives marriage a fighting chance at survival, which among many Christians is all it needs.

Please consider supporting this family-friendly law for the great state of Texas. Every child deserves to have a mommy and daddy at home.

Sincerely,

Shane Linder

[cricket]

Because Covenant Marriages are based on religious principles, there is the legal matter of separation of church and state that would prevent this type of marriage from ever becoming law.

It is a good idea that couples receive counseling before marriage--indeed, the majority of Adventist pastors take this notion seriously. It is a good idea that married couples receive counseling before obtaining a divorce. Fortunately, or unfortunately (depending on one's perspective), the governance of divorce is in the hands of the state--not the church.

A the contract made in a Covenant Marriage could be enforced, but not the mandate of a Covenant Marriage in lieu of a state honored marriage. A legal contract could be made requiring these same measures as a Covenant Marriage; that contract will then be binding between the two parties.

However, is there truly a need for such a marriage contract? While some may feel that this sort of counseling will truly help the couple in marital distress, couples who have reached the point of desiring divorce will likely do just about anything to have the divorce granted. This would include lying in the counseling sessions and simply "going through the motions" to get the divorce according to contract laws.

[Dr. Shane]

Sister Wall, by the same reason, "Seperation of church and state" one could argue that the clergy shouldn't be given civil authority to marry. They don't in some countries like Mexico. Some could also argue "seperation of church and state" to do away with the tax-exempt status of churches. Others could argue "seperation of church and state" to get rid of government-paid chaplins like Brother Matthews and many others in government hospitals, prisons and even Congress.

Covenant Marriage is already law in three states and has not been struck down as unconstitutional by any courts. It is an option only. Any couple can get married the regular way and later divorce under the no-fault divorce laws.

Will it help? If it helps even a small minority than at least some children will grow up with mommy and daddy that would have otherwise been in a broken home.

[cricket]

The marriage ceremonies that clergy perform should not be held as legal marriages by the state. Indeed, as was pointed out, that, too muddies the waters between church and state.

If the law continues to allow clergy members to perform these ceremonies, it is the same clergy who should be required to handle the divorces. As it is now, a couple can get divorced through either means.

A Covenant Marriage will only work if the means for obtaining a divorce through the state are removed.

Think on these things.