German Adventist Church apologies for supporting Hitler

[Stan]

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German and Austrian leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church have issued a statement of apology for any support of or role in Nazi activities during World War II.

In their declaration, the church bodies ''honestly confess'' to a failure ''in following our Lord'' by not protecting Jews and others during the Holocaust, reported Adventist News Network. It was issued as observances mark the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II.

''We deeply regret that the character of National Socialist dictatorship had not been realized in time and distinctly enough, and the ungodly nature of [Nazi] ideology had not clearly been identified,'' reads the statement, translated from German.

They added their regret ''that in some of our publications . . . there were found articles glorifying Adolf Hitler and agreeing with the ideology of anti-Semitism in a way that is unbelievable from today's [perspective].''

- Religion News Service

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A question emailed me: Will American Adventists make the same statement 60 years from now about GWB?

[aldona]

Wow...that's quite a confession to make.

From what I have heard, German Adventists were very enthusiastic about Hitler not only because of the anti-semitic aspect, but also because of the appealing idea of having a leader who was a vegetarian, non-smoker and non-drinker, who identified himself as a Christian.

As for your question, Stan...sometimes I wonder if it would be safer to follow the example of the earliest Adventists and some other small Christian denominations, and not vote or get involved in politics at all...

aldona

[Dr. Shane]

I was wondering if 60 years from now Iraqi Adventists will issue a simular statement about supporting Saddam. However it is not too hard to understand how German Adventists could support Hitler or Iraqi Adventists support Saddam.

The Bible does command us to submit to civil authority unless that authority requires us to break God's law. Adventists have not and do not believe the Jews are God's people anymore. Nor do we believe they play a role in the completion of prophecy. I suspect it was quite easy for Adventists to turn a blind eye to what was going on with the Jews in Germany. I don't justify it, but I understand how they made such an error.

In the same respect Saddam allowed the Adventists in Iraq to worship freely. Those he murdered and torchured were mostly his politically enemies. So Adventists had no big reason to oppose him. They were submissive to the Iraqi government as commmanded - just as their German counterparts 60 years before them.

[cricket]

I think there are a great deal of many things Adventists do/say/profess at this present time that will someday be honestly recognized as a failure "in following our Lord."

For this reason the Bible warns us that if it were possible, even the very elect will be deceived.

Be ye not deceived.

As an added note, for an interesting read check out the book, "Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust" by Daniel Johan Goldhagen.

[cricket]

Quote:

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Adventists have not and do not believe the Jews are God's people anymore.

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This statement is not entirely true. As an Adventist, I do believe that those of the Jewish faith are God's people--just as much as I believe that Adventists are God's people. We are all children of God.

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "However it is not too hard to understand how German Adventists could support Hitler or Iraqi Adventists support Saddam."

Shane, do you know and understand the level and content of the support that was given Hitler by SDA Church leaders?

Perhaps you might post that support,as you understand it.

[Naomi]

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Christine Wall said:

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Adventists have not and do not believe the Jews are God's people anymore.

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This statement is not entirely true. As an Adventist, I do believe that those of the Jewish faith are God's people--just as much as I believe that Adventists are God's people. We are all children of God.

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Thank you Christine and AMEN!! More to the point, one can be a Jew and be a Christian! <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/seenoevil.gif" alt="" />

[Ron Lambert]

This really seems to vindicate the German Reform Adventist church, which spun off in protest to the main church's stand (or lack of a strand). Maybe this can provide a means for healing, bringing the German Reform movement and the regular church in Germany back together.

[Naomi]

Stan Jensen said:

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German and Austrian leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church have issued a statement of apology for any support of or role in Nazi activities during World War II.

- Religion News Service

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A question emailed me: Will American Adventists make the same statement 60 years from now about GWB?

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Stan, that article was forwarded to me. I realize I am opening a can of worms but I must say that as I read the article the same question came to mind. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/tomato.gif" alt="" />

[Ron Lambert]

Naomi, anyone comparing President G.W. Bush to Hitler has already discredited themselves to everyone except the most extreme liberal partisan. This sounds like the kind of people who exhibit such bad judgment that they actually demonstrate against the injured soldiers at Walter Reed Army Hospital. They seem to have no awareness of how much this absolutely disgusts and incenses the vast majority of Americans.

[Naomi]

Ron,

What I said in no way is a reflection on those who are in Walter Reed or any other hospital.

Nor, does it have to do with the men who followed orders in Germany while believing in Ferrier, Folk & Fatherland.

I personally knew many young people who served in some more recent wars. I have deep regard & respect for each one who served. I also have observed their painful memories from the events they experienced during their tour of duty.

When war is personally fought by the people who instigate it I will find it much more palatable.

When I drive down the road and see a bumper with "The Fish" with GWB in the center, I have to wonder........

Now the draft is becoming closer to a reality. How do you feel about that?

And, for the record I have personally met George & Laura a couple of times. They are very nice, friendly people.

I have no personal vendetta towards GWB or the people serving in our military.

Only the future will prove the actions as good or evil. Sometimes we become too close to the trees to see the forrest.

Naomi

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "This really seems to vindicate the German Reform Adventist church, which spun off in protest to the main church's stand (or lack of a strand). Maybe this can provide a means for healing, bringing the German Reform movement and the regular church in Germany back together."

Ron, you raise a valid point.

However, I ask you to consider the actions of leadership of the German Reform Adventist Chruch (as you called them) that brought about much inappropriate (They were much more than inappropriate, and very wrong.) actions of the certain leaders in the SDA Chruch. My points are:

1) The split-off of the SDA Reform Movement began prior to the apostacy of certain SDA leaders in supporting Hitler.

2) An illegal (imoral) action of certain Reform Movement leaders was a reason for some of the wrong actions of SDA leaders.

3) The blame is rightly spread around to both SDA leadership and the Reform leadership.

As to you comment in regard to healing the split:

The General Conference was unable to deal with the problem, in Germany, until after the war, and it was safe to travel.

At that time, General Conference leadership clearly stated that certain SDA leaders were wrong.

The two sides were unable to heal the split.

NOTE: It is only in recent times that historians are beginning to get a handle on what actually happened. As this is taking place, it is becomming evident the the actions of certain SDA leaders were more wrong than had been previously realized.

[Dr. Shane]

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Shane, do you know and understand the level and content of the support that was given Hitler by SDA Church leaders?

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No I do not know much about that at all. We are told by Scripture to be submissive to our governments. I don't know how much more they did.

[Dr. Shane]

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anyone comparing President G.W. Bush to Hitler has already discredited themselves

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It does seem there is much more of a comparasan between Hitler and Saddam than G.W. Bush.

[Dr. Shane]

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As an Adventist, I do believe that those of the Jewish faith are God's people--just as much as I believe that Adventists are God's people. We are all children of God

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Sister White wrote, and the Bible supports it, that we are not considered children of God until we accept Christ. We are God's creation but not His children. That is a good topic for another thread.

While it was wrong, I suspect many Adventists didn't see a problem with killing the Jews. I disagree with that which is why I support present-day Israel. However I can understand why an Adventist would have believed that way and supported Nazi Germany. It is good they have now went on record appoligizing.

I don't see GW Bush as part of this story in any way. Not only are there no parrells between Hitler and Bush, there are no parrells between the German Adventist church of the 1930s/40s and the present-day American Adventist church.

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "However it is not too hard to understand how German Adventists could support Hitler or Iraqi Adventists support Saddam."

AND

"No I do not know much about that at all. We are told by Scripture to be submissive to our governments. I don't know how much more they did."

O. K. Here are a couple of items:

1) Certain SDA leaders taught that Hitler was part of God's plan for bringing about the Second Advent. Those Adventists who participated in Germany's military conquests were participating in God's plan to bring about the Second Comming.

2) SDAs were encouraged to enlist in the German military, and to participate fully, at all times, and in all types of participation.

Shane, the story has been told for years. Few present-day SDAs have heard the story. It is only in the past ten years that the full story is beginning to come out into the open as SDA historians, and sociologists are beginning to study that time, and publish their findings.

Again: It should be clearly noted that the actions of certain German Reform Movement people (actions that were both illegal and immoral) played a role in this sad time. The blame is clearly shared by both SDA leadership, as well as German Reform Movement leadership. Neither the SDAs or the Reformists come out of this clean and clear of fault. The blame is shared by both.

If you want to talk about what the SDA leaders did, bring the others into it also.

[Suzanne Sutton]

[:"blue"]Hitler Was NOT A Vegetarian [/]

[:"blue"]An article in Time, May 24, 1999 points out that in her book, Gourmet Cooking School Cookbook, (1964), Dione Lucas writes of her days as a chef in a Hamburg, Germany hotel before World War II: "I do not mean to spoil your appetite for stuffed squab, but you might be interested to know that it was a great favorite with Mr. Hitler, who dined at the hotel often."

And here are excerpts from a pamphlet by Rynn Berry entitled, Why Hitler Was Not A Vegetarian.

Under the headline, He Loved His Squab, a passage is cited from the cookbook written by a European chef, Dione Lucas, who was an eyewitness to Hitler's meat-eating. Drawing on her experiences as a hotel chef in Hamburg during the 1930s, Lucas remembers being called upon quite often to prepare Hitler's favorite dish: stuffefd squab.

Richard Schwartz, author of Judaism and Vegetarianiam, points out that Hitler would occasionally go on a vegetarian binge to cure himself of excessive sweatiness and flatulance, but that his main diet was meat-centered.

Robert Payne, Albert Speer, and other well-known Hitler biographers are also mentioned who point out Hitler's predilection for such non-vegetarian foods as Bavarian sausages, ham, liver and game.

It is also noted that Hitler banned vegetarian organizations in Germany and the occupied countires during his years as dictator.

The authors throw more light on the enigma of Hitler: "Hitler was a connoisseur of sweets, and cream cakes, which he consumed in astonishing quantities. He drank tea and coffee drowned in cream and sugar. Indeed, according to one biographer, "No dictator ever had a sweeter tooth." (He loved sweets).

Publishers Weekly has this to say about Berry's article: "The essay by Rynn Berry lays to rest the myth that Hitler was a vegetarian."

Suzanne[/]

[Paul Beach]

Dear individuals,

This whole thing about drinking, smoking, and vegetarianism shows how easy it is for people to "major in the minors" to the exclusion of much more impactive doctrines such as "thou shalt not kill." We should not drink, smoke, or eat meat, but that alone does not qualify one to be a good Christian or even a good human being for that matter.

Mrs. Gray upon reading the statement thinks it sounds like they are apologizing for falling into a covered hole.

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"''We deeply regret that the character of National Socialist dictatorship had not been realized in time and distinctly enough, and the ungodly nature of [Nazi] ideology had not clearly been identified,''

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It is hard to believe that they didn't see where Hitler was going to go with his anti-semitic rhetoric, building up of the military, etc. In actuality, Mrs. Gray would suppose that the Adventist church thought it was acting in a more politically defensive way, hoping that they would not become the next target. Had they joined people like Boenhoeffer, and others who resisted Hitler's satanic attacks on freedom, they would have undoubtedly as a group joined the "undesirables" in the ovens.

She is also aware that others felt compelled to participate in the Nazi organization, including the current pope who now regrets his actions as well.

But not only is this instructive in hindsight - we as a church must be careful to act in ways now that we will not regret in the future. Are we building the framework for freedom today? These are things we need to consider.

By the way, is there a reliable resource available that you know of that talks about what Adventists in Germany did in the years leading up to the war?

[NormF]

Dear MG,

What a thoughtful and remarkable post. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I didn't realize this was part of your make-up. Surprises never cease. Your observations and questions are quite squarely on the mark as I see them. (Consider the source of these words and you'll understand their import.) Your observation about falling into covered holes, or the machinations that are its converse, is a beaut, and well-taken. Whether one uses this metaphor or the forest and trees metaphor that Naomi suggested, Monday morning quarterbacks always play a better game though.

The real question for today's game (about the framework being built and whether or not it will be regretted in the future) is whether we will get in the game and play or sit on the sidelines and watch. That one, being today's game, is a much tougher call. But it's the one that counts here and now. Great post, Maggie.

I do share your interest too in seeking reliable historical resources on this subject. Gregory, you had facts you felt comfortable with in presenting them to us ... can you help, and perhaps shed some more light on this as you do?

Regards,

Norm

[Gregory Matthews]

Norm:

Here are some references to begin your search:

Corrie Schroder

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/projects/holocaust/Research/Proseminar/corrieschroder.htm

Roland Blaich

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/akz/akz9505.htm

Ronald Lawson

http://www.sdanet.org/steve/articles/R.Lawson:Onward_Christian_Soldiers

http://qcpages.qc.cuny.edu/UBST/DEPT/FACULTY/rlawson.htm

Re: Ronald Lawson

Laswon is a PhD. faculty member of Queens College, a Sociologist, and an active member of the SDA Chruch. He has studied this issue, and published on it. He has writen in either SPECTRUM or ADVENTIST TODAY. I have forgotten which. That article, which is NOT referenced above, is seminal for a study of the subject, but it is not all inclusive, and other materials should be considered. I have attempted to locate that article on the Internet, and been unable to do so. Anyone interested can contact him and request information on it. His address is listed in the above URL.

NOTE: None of the above gives the full details on the issue I have raised in regard to illegal and imoral actions of certain leadership of the Reform Movement. To get the full story you will need to obtain the article that RL wrote in AT or SPECTRUM, and then go further. There is no one source for the full story which is only now beginning to be told.

[Paul Beach]

Dear Norman,

Thank you for your kind words regarding Mrs. Gray's post above. That Mrs. Gray was able to generate such a cogent piece should be no surprise as she is indeed a world class wordsmith in her own right.

Having said that, regarding the content and something that Mrs. Gray didn't mention above, it is interesting also that the German Adventist Church is still not willing to take full responsibility for its decisions.

Mrs. Gray will read Gregory's sources with much interest and is grateful for these links as they will likely save several hours of Google research.

Sincerely,

Mrs. Gray

[Amelia]

Seventh Day Adventists

by Corrie Schroder

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The German Adventists continued to believe they had done the correct thing by compromising with the Nazi government. The survival of the church was what was important to the German Adventist leaders, and in order to survive they needed to compromise.

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How many of us will compromise during the time of trouble ahead?

[Gregory Matthews]

I have not fully evaulated her thinking on this situation.

On one level, I think that the statement that you have quoted is accurate. But, I am not certain that it is complete. Some of the German leadership bought into the idea that they could participate in bringing about the Second Advent by cooperating with Hitler!

That is an astounding concept which needs further study, and cannot, in my opinion, be described by the statement that you have quoted.

In addition, the destruciton of the SDA Chruch must be considered in the context of what the Reform Movement did. I do not have time for that now.