New Orleans -- Hurricane Katrina

[cricket]

Perhaps it wasn't upon the government that these poor people depended.

Perhaps their trust was in the good Christians who'd come to their aid when the time came.

Perhaps those of us who are sitting comfortably in our homes should get out of our easy chairs and DO something.

...or we can just sit around and talk about it like this forever. At the very least, the government has done something. What have you done?

[Naomi]

Margaret Gray said:

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The fact that this once great city is now being controlled by the criminal element because it took several days for the National Guard to mobilize is criminal in its own right. There are not words to describe how wrong this is.

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There are words, we just can't use them!

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It's just plain arrogant and obnoxious. (Without resorting to nuclear language, Mrs. Gray must be satisfied with these terms to describe the deep stomach ache that rises within her at the thought of what's going on.)

Why didn't they remember that the City had directed THOUSANDS to the Convention Center (which is a separate building from the Superdome)? Thousands of people went there, but there were NO AUTHORITIES there at all. The people went there to die. Bodies piled in a makeshift morgue in the kitchen.

And when they finally found out about the people, which they dumbly claim not to know about, they don't go in with medical aid because the criminals with guns have taken over. If our military can take Fallujah, when the enemy had bombs and RPGs, they could take out a few criminals with handguns.

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It's not as though the convention center is across town from the Dome ... across the street! Our beloved Director of Homeland Security insist that he only found out about the Convention Center late yesterday. REALLY??

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For two days, the government has been saying that they are pouring troops into New Orleans, but where are they?

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Last evening they said they would be there in approximately two days.

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It's the blindness to the fate of all the thousands who were placed in this kind of danger, rapes, murders in the Superdome, etc. that is the most galling. And if they didn't give a damn about the people they knew about, how could they care about the thousands still trapped in their attics whose air is almost gone?

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It was probably more comfortable to discuss the possibilities of how to proceed and how much will it cost in a nice cool, dry conference room than making a decision and doing something about it.

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The next time this kind of disaster happens, maybe it's best to understand the maxim "every man for himself" from the beginning rather than having to wait until one learns it from a police officer who is shoving one out of the way as he rushes past toward his waiting patrol car.

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And, the policeman had a look of total unconcern on his face. Those that understand the maxim "every man for himself/herself" are being criticized and called thugs. Not to dismiss the thugs, there are those there as well. But, there are criminal elements in all cities. Days with no food, water, encouragement could certainly bring out the wrost in human nature. At some point the mind would snap and humans began to behave like the animal within.

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But not when they're cajoled into a sense of safety only to have it ripped from them by "criminals gone wild," or to be collected in large groups to starve or die of thirst.

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If that doesn't make you ill, nothing will.

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There has to be a word that's bad enough to describe this.

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In the beginning I said, "There are words, we just can't use them!" on second thought, I don't think there is a word that bad! (:

In Blessed Hope,

Naomi

[Jeannieb43]

Mrs. Gray, you've captured my sentiments exactly.

All I know is, when a terrorist bomb hits your city or mine, what will we do? It's obvious now that there will be NO HELP from the federal government. If our own city's infrastructure is gone, only God help us then.

Makes me seriously consider getting out of the city.

(Where have we heard those words before???!)

[Ron Lambert]

Bravus, you may discredit the organization Repent America, but do you question the facts they cited--that the annual homosexual celebration "Days of Decadence" was scheduled to begin August 31, which in the past has brought thousands of homosexuals to New Orleans, where they would participate in sex outs out in public right in front of police, with impunity? Do you deny that the last three mayors of New Orleans have publicly welcomed the Days of Decadence to the city? Do you deny the many gross things that take place during Mardi Gras? Do you deny what most Americans know as a given, that New Orleans was the most wicked city in America, and the government leadership officially approved it? This nation has seen many disasters. But it is no coincidence that New Orleans is the first major city we have had to abandon.

Do you believe that God has no limits, that He is willing to endure the knowledge--from the inside out, since He sustains the breath of every sinner--of unmitigated human depravity endlessly? Do you deny that Calvary shows us how the intimate knowlege of our sin makes God feel?

It is surely not a great surprise that civil order has broken down so completely, where people steal guns and ammo from gun shops and then plunge the huddled survivors into an Old West kind of rule of the strongest, and even shoot at helicopters rescuing people. These people were encouraged to think that lawful, orderly behavior means little, by the attitude shown by the police and government officials toward the grossest public lewdness. These present consequences come from definite causes.

This does not mean we should look down on the people of the New Orleans and not think them worthy of helping. The innocent are suffering along with the guilty, and the job of everyone on God's side is to minimize evil and ameliorate its consequences as far as possible. But we should recognize, and not try to deny, the lessons to be learned.

[Clio]

We are out of the city, and moving farther out into the bush next year.

If any decide they need a refuge deep in the wilderness, contact the Pastor of the Fairbanks church. He will know where we went, and we will take in any that can get to us.

We are planning in advance to be able to do so.

Clio

[Jerry D Thomas]

Southwestern Union update

Southwest Adventist Hurricane Center

The Southwestern Union has launched a web site dedicated to information about the Hurricane Katrina disaster: www.swahc.org. (This link won't work but it will work if you type it in your browser or you can go to our regular website www.southwesternAdventist.org and click on the link there) This site will serve as a clearinghouse of information about the Adventist relief efforts, displaced members, and the status of affected churches and schools.

Southwest Adventist Hurricane Center offers:

• Updated news. News about disaster response work in southeast Louisiana as well as efforts to help displaced persons around the union.

• A “safe” list. A growing list of Adventist members (and others) who are safely away from the affected area.

• A “searching for” list. A list to post names of people who may or may not be safe but have not been heard from.

• Personal stories and testimonies. A place for those who were impacted by this disaster to share their stories.

• Messages of encouragement and prayers. A place to express sympathy and share hope to those who have lost so much.

• How to help. How and where to donate funds, clothing, food, and/or to volunteer time or to offer your home for a displace family.

• Links. Link to other sources of information about the disaster including the Southern Union and their similar sites.

To send information to be included on www.swahc.com, send an e-mail to hurricane@swuc.org.

I'd like to encourage you all to send a note of encouragement when you can.

Jerry D Thomas

[Jerry D Thomas]

Southwestern Union update

Status of damaged churches

Reports from the affected southeastern Louisiana area are slowly coming in. This is the best information at the moment on our church and school structures. Bear in mind that it could prove to be inaccurate or incomplete.

These churches are reported to have sustained only minimal damage: Hammond, Mandeville, Slidell, Westbank United, Metairie Spanish, New Orleans Spanish.

These churches are reported to be flooded to a greater or lesser degree: Ephesus church and school, Caffin Avenue church and school, New Orleans East, New Orleans New Life, and New Orleans First. Other churches reported with significant damage include the Emmanuel church in Hammond, and New Orleans West Bank church. The newly constructed Glad Tidings church in Slidell was heavily damaged, and the Kenner Spanish church was completely destroyed.

No other reliable information is available for other churches including the St. Bernard church which is presumed heavily damaged by flooding because of its location.

Visit the Southwest Adventist Hurricane Center at www.swahc.org (link won't work. Type it in your browser or go to www.southwesternAdventist.org for a link) for more information as it becomes available.

[Jeannieb43]

With all due respect...

We're of course concerned about our church buildings. But what about THE PEOPLE?!

What's the tally on missing or injured MEMBERS?

[Jerry D Thomas]

None of the conferences are reporting any members killed, but that's very preliminary. There simply is not enough operational communication to know if everyone is OK. The web site I mentioned above is the start of a "safe" list of people who are out and OK. I've spoke to pastors who are tracking down their members, trying to be sure everyone got out or is safe. But that is an almost impossible task under the circumstances. Many, many displaced members are staying with friends and family in Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi and points north. Lone Star Camp and Camp Yorktown Bay are already boarding members who are otherwise displaced.

Bottom line--if more information were available on the members, I'd give it to you. I expect it will develop and we'll do our best to keep everyone informed.

[Naomi]

Jerry,

Thank you for keeping us up-to-date.

Naomi

[Bravus]

Ron - see my response in the earthquake swarm thread to this: Louisiana is a red state: who is to say *that's* not the reason (it's not). In the final analysis, this loss of life is a consequence of sin, but we're all sinners, and God doesn't wipe us out. I think it's foolish in the extreme to take our own pet hates (in this case gays, in others abortion, in the case of Muslims America itself) and project those onto God and (in effect) say He's doing our dirty work for us.

[Dr. Shane]

Of course the federal government could have done more but it is normally reactionary and not proactionary. Local and state governements are more proactionary. A community can never place its full trust in the federal government and is foolish to do so.

I live in a huricane prone area. I have lived here 7 years and in that time we have had four huricanes make land fall within 100 miles of our coast and one tropical storm. (Tropical storms drop more rain and cause more flooding than a hurricane) Our local community has evacuation plans in case of a huricane. There is no excuse that New Orleans was caught so off guard. Take a look at Florida. Almost everyone living there knows what to do to prepare for a hurricane and where to go if one comes.

While the Bush Administration may not have been on the ball, it has only become apparent because of the total irresponsibility of the local and state governments involved. The federal government provides support like food, water, medical supplies and water. They are not to mircomanage the preperation, evaculation and rescue operations. The National Guard is normally brought in by the governor - not the President.

It seems Homeland Security didn't take charge because it was a natural disaster and not a terrorist attack. Now that is something we need to talk about. Should Homeland Security take charge in cases of natural disaster?

A lot of things went wrong and there is enough blame to go around. The federal government certainly doesn't deserve any greater share than the local and state governments. The mayor could of at least had the city buses run well into the night before the huricane struck. Did the police and fire departments take to the streets with their load speakers telling everyone to leave or seek high ground? They do that where I live.

Now about fixing the levies. They have known about this problem for nearly 300 years - long before New Orleans was even part of the US! Does anyone honestly beleive if they had continued to receive more money they would have used it to upgrade the levies? They have been recieving money for years and never fixed the levies. If it was that important why wasn't their congressional delegation jumping up and down about it? Our Congressman has gotten us a lot of money for such projects (and he is a Democrat in a Republican Congress).

[LifeHiscost]

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Naomi said:

If we are living in those areas, which are probably occuring even in

your

city, are we

allowing

this type of activity?

Naomi

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I'm not sure it's our responsibility to disallow as I recall Jesus spent very little if any time on liscentious social issues, even going so far as to allow the keeper of the money bag for the little band of believers, to steal unmolested, as long as his activities were not common knowledge.

Would that be a bit of a personal example by Jesus that our (the disciples of Christ) work is less expending of our efforts in correcting other's lawless behaviour, and more sowing the good news, which I admit can sometimes be giving the Word about the Way best to walk, public pronouncement for the sake of the misery caused by liscentious living.

[:"red"] "For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it." [/] Hebrews 4:2 NKJV

Keep the faith!!

[LifeHiscost]

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Ron Lambert said:

But we should recognize, and not try to deny, the lessons to be learned.

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[:"red"] "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “ Prepare the way of the LORD; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God. " [/] Isaiah 40:3 NKJV

[LifeHiscost]

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Christine Wall said:

Perhaps their trust was in the good Christians who'd come to their aid when the time came.

Perhaps those of us who are sitting comfortably in our homes should get out of our easy chairs and

DO

something.

...or we can just sit around and talk about it like this forever. At the very least, the government has done something. What have you done?

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I was hoping to see someone who would put it so succinctly.

It's always easy to sit around eating pizza, while we Monday morning quarterback, thinking how much better we would have done it.

Keep the faith!

[bevin]

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the death of 1000 people over several days

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_death...zkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

Hurricane Katrina death tolls reported by state and local officials as of Friday. Officials have said they expect the toll to reach the thousands.

ALABAMA: 2

FLORIDA: 14

GEORGIA: 2

LOUISIANA: 118

MISSISSIPPI: 211

TOTAL: 347

/Bevin

[Amelia]

Those body counts come from the dead that have been taken to the portable morgues. The estimate comes from the many, many dead that are tied to trees and poles for later retrieval and those that are still unaccounted for and/or burried in the debris and mud.

[CyberGuy]

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The most tragic thing about all this is not the hurricane, although in most situations that disaster would have been enough to give one nightmares for life. But no, the worst thing is the fact that so many will have died because of the government's ineptitude and inability to handle this disaster.

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I heard on the news tonight in Southern California that people are stocking up on food and water with at least a three week supply of food and water in case of a major earthquake because of the way Fema handled the New Orleans disaster. No longer is there trust that the government will have aid here within 72 hours or three days. Now they say three weeks before aid will come in mass. People think they must fend for themselves for three weeks now. This is the sad state of mis trust of FEMA and the federal government to handle a major crises.

[Dr. Shane]

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people are stocking up on food and water with at least a three week supply of food and water

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Only the wealthy and middle class, not the poor.

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because of the way Fema handled the New Orleans disaster.

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None of us should expect FEMA to help us within less than 72 hours. However the local and state governments should have emergency plans in place.

[aka]

Hi Cyberguy,

Stocking up for weeks of living in an emergency situation when a nature catastrophy does happen is the Californian wake-up reaction. At least I read finally something of Americans doing something in the way of prepareness.

Those slogan words of NYC's WTC attack as a "wake-up call" meant what? Just stare and freeze in grief and horror that one is vunerable? To apply the 'wake-up call' to spiritual demensions is readiness over opposed to sleeping with the status quo.

In the Christian media this slogan word of 'wake-up call' is to be found in some articles by churched people on this Hurricane Katrina disaster as well.

-wake up to what? That's the question.

Every Californian has heard that it is not a matter of 'if' but a matter of 'when?' as to the really big 7 or even 9.0 earthquake is coming.

My question is :

How are we at ClubA going to properly comfort you Californians when "when?" actually happens and you get bodily damaged, loose your homes, suffer the lost of loved family and go through the misery of being displaced without food and water days or months on end?

Shall we look you in the eye and declare... "you were warned, you knew, you refused to move to a safer place, you are now reaping what you sowed in your false sense of security" ??

Turmeric

[Halfstep Denise]

I live in California and we have been told to pretend that emergency services would not be able to get to us for several days! In other words, have an emergency plan of our own and have some supplies on hand.

We have become too programmed to rely on the Federal Goverment to always bail us out of trouble. Our local city and state goverments should be better prepared for a disaster of any type.

No matter where you live there is a disaster waiting to happen. If you can't help yourself, make sure your local government has an emergency plan and supplies to come to your aid. And be willing to pay the taxes to help them to help you.

Be smart - plan ahead as best as possible.

Think Noah's ark. When you're told to get into the ark or get out of the city, move it NOW! The people in Noah's time had 120 years to make the decision, but once the ark was finished and Noah told them to get in, that was it! They didn't have a second chance or the Coast Guard to come pluck them off their roofs.

Also think Lot's wife. That was another move it NOW situation and forget your belongings! They didn't have a Coast Guard helicopter to help them evacuate.

Denise

[Morning Glory]

Just tagging on here:

I don't think that they will have electricity, so that will be a moot issue. No amount of preparedness will protect when an earthquake hits, or a tornado hits. The area usually only gets minutes of notice, if any. They (tornado, earthquake) go where they will, and whatever is in the destroyed property is basically of no use.

BUT, I agree that we all should have a plan and be prepared. Where I live, it could be a snowstorm that keeps us homebound, literally, for days. That did happen a couple of years ago.....was real glad that I didn't "have" to go to the store for anything during that time!!

These are certainly sobering days that we live in. Thank God, He still watches out for us, and cares for us. Am hearing of literal miracles happening at Bass Memorial Academy re: food coming from "nowhere" to feed the hungry crowds, and other blessings. I am overwhelmed by the goodness of the Lord to us all.

[aka]

I just love your moniker handle, Morning Glory! Have I told you that yet?

Having those vines grow in my garden with those marvelous blossoms opening up to the warmth rays of the sun has been a source of sheer joy many a year for me.

I'd really like more reporting on what you said <<Am hearing of literal miracles happening at Bass Memorial Academy re: food coming from "nowhere" to feed the hungry crowds, and other blessings.>>

Just a few links or a testimony perhaps. I haven't heard anything of such yet and wonder if sensationalism is in play here.

Turmeric

[bevin]

The 10,000 dead total is looking completely unrealistic.

The total MAY get over the 1,000 mark.

In terms of global and historic proportions, Katrina is no where near in the running.

/Bevin

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050914/ap_on_re_us/hurricane_katrina

For Louisiana alone, the toll surged by more than half Tuesday to 423, and officials fear the numbers could climb as floodwaters recede and more of the city becomes accessible to search teams. Including deaths in four other states, Katrina's overall death count stood at 659.

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the city was on target to be almost completely drained by Oct. 8

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He said all of the central business district and French Quarter should have power back within two weeks.

/Bevin

[aldona]

Just tagging on here to put in a quote from CNN...

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Dr. Bong Mui and his staff, evacuated with 300 patients after three hellish days at Chalmette Medical Center, arrived at the New Orleans airport, and were amazed to see hundreds of sick people. They offered to help. But, the doctor told CNN, FEMA officials said they were worried about legal liability. "They told us that, you know, you could help us by mopping the floor." And so they mopped, while people died around them. "I started crying," he recalled. "We felt like we could help, and were not allowed to do anything."

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So this is where society has come to. Maybe we should get the lawyers to come in and treat the sick and the wounded.

aldona