petro prices

[Stan]

here in LA, CA 2.91+ regular

[Robert]

Here in Columbia, SC + $3.12 reg.

[cricket]

St. Louis, MO

$3.00 87 Octane

$3.20 92 Octane

(Guess it's a good thing I can't find my keys!)

[Barbara]

We are at $2.88 here in Walla Walla. I put $30 in my tank today and it almost filled the tank half way. If I had been a few minutes earlier I would have only had to pay $2.78.

[Dr. Shane]

Cheapest here is 2.88 but most stations are 2.99. Luckly deisel is only 2.69 most places. That is the one that is really going to impact inflation.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Gas prices here have gone through the atmosphere. Some stations are selling regular for $6.00 per gallon. That is not the norm where I live. It's more like $2.99 to $3.09 and the lowest I've seen is $2.65 just down the street from us. I heard a guy on the radio say he was waiting at a red light and looking at the line up for gas. Then he saw someone from the station come out with a ladder and change the 3 to a 4 to make it $4.09 per gallon right while people were wating to get gas!

The govenor finally declared a state of emrgency to freeze the prices. (because of price gouging) There will be no more increases unless they are a part of doing business. There was a rumor that got started and it said that 2 pipelines coming into Atlanta were down because of Katrina. It was broadcast that stations would run out of gas by 3pm then 4pm then 5 then 6. This scared a lot of people in to going out and filling up and a lot of stations did run out. That's why some of them went as high as $6.00

[Naomi]

The lowest I found today was $2.91 for regular with mid-grade $3.09. While I was filling they changed the price to $3.11 for regular.

[Bravus]

I'm going to be contrary and suggest that high gas prices are a good thing. In the absence of political will to move toward alternative energy sources and more efficient vehicles, the only thing that's going to move us in that direction is market forces, and this are them. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Oil is a finite resource, it leads to global climate change (including possible contribution to the strength of Katrina from warmer ocean waters and more solar energy in the system) and it's also better to keep it for the future for plastics and other chemical syntheses than to burn it. When it gets too expensive to burn, we'll be forced to look for alternatives.

[Beryl]

[Then he saw someone from the station come out with a ladder and change the 3 to a 4 to make it $4.09 per gallon right while people were wating to get gas!]

I am so glad that THAT kind of action is against the law here. The petrol price for the next day has to be in the hands of some official somewhere by 4 pm, and by 6 pm the list of the cheapest places to purchase is on the TV news. The prices all change at midnight, so you know that if it is on the way up you can dash out and fill up right then.

Beryl

[Lil Star]

The night before yesterday morning the gas price was 2.59. I went to fill up my tank yesterday morning and the gas price changed to 2.67. I drove by the same gas station last night and the price had gone up yet again to 2.73 per gallon. It went up .15 within a 24 hour period! Here the gas prices usually would go up on Sunday mornings. I guess they had to make sure that they got the gas prices up before the freeze took place.

[Gregory Matthews]

All of those prices sound good to me. We are paying more.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

There is a lesson in all this, at least here in GA. The last movements will be rapid ones. This rumor about gas shortages started in the morning and by the afternoon gas prices were going up $1.00 per hour till some reached $6.00 per gallon. Again, the rumor cause the shortage. One day we are going to be a rumor and just a fast as those who welcomed Jesus as the Messiah and then yelled crucify Him we will be hated and persecuted.

God is good and we should take the freedom that we have and let other's who don't know Him what they have waiting for them in Christ. I heard a woman on the radio say that this hurrican was from God. I cringe to think people can reconcile that with a loving God.

People don't realize that Satan is come down having great wrath because he know full well that his existance will shortly be put out.

This gives us a picture of the heart of God from DA

"Had Christ been in the sickroom, Lazarus would not have died; for Satan would have had no power over him. Death could not have aimed his dart at Lazarus in the presence of the Life-giver. Therefore Christ remained away. He suffered the enemy to exercise his power, that He might drive him back, a conquered foe. He permitted Lazarus to pass under the dominion of death; and the suffering sisters saw their brother laid in the grave. Christ knew that as they looked on the dead face of their brother their faith in their Redeemer would be severely tried. But He knew that because of the struggle through which they were now passing their faith would shine forth with far greater power. He suffered every pang of sorrow that they endured. He loved them no less because He tarried; but He knew that for them, for Lazarus, for Himself, and for His disciples, a victory was to be gained." DA 528

Norman

[Clio]

The Adversary is still the prince of the air. Hurricanes are air.

Clio

[Gregory Matthews]

Some stations are selling regular gas at $3.00 per gallon, or slightly above. However, there are still stations that are selling below that.

All I can say is: I am delighted that I purchased a hybrid automobile in July. I drive 80 miles per day to work. I can easily get gas milage in the 40 - 45 mile per gallon range, and more if I want to. In the last 430 miles my mileage has been 47.3 miles to the gallon. My overall mileage, for the entire month of August, was 43.2 miles per gallon.

[Dr. Shane]

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I'm going to be contrary and suggest that high gas prices are a good thing. In the absence of political will to move toward alternative energy sources and more efficient vehicles, the only thing that's going to move us in that direction is market forces, and this are them.

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Agreed!!!

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Oil is a finite resource, it leads to global climate change

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Both of these statements are subject to debate. In recent years some geologists have started to suspect the Earth actually creates oil which would mean it may not be a limitted resource. For public policy reasons we need to continue to assume that it is, but we may be wrong.

Global climate change is a speculative science. Records have not been kept long enough to know if we are in a long-term cycle and if we are, what stage we are in. There certainly isn't a consenses in the scientific community.

[Amelia]

I will have to fill today and it looks like I might be able to find it at about $2.70 gal.

[Paul Beach]

Dear person,

In no way are high gas prices a "good thing," particularly at this time of crisis. We are already facing the demise of the "housing bubble" and people are going to start losing a lot of money fast, possibly leading to recession or even a depression.

Arguing that this fact will push us toward some environmentalist wacko utopia of new vehicles is absurd because people won't be able to afford the new cars when they get here.

What we need immediately are MORE refineries in more places, and to ease the unreasonable restrictions on places to drill. We need more supply - and then let the market correct itself. Gas prices should be at about $2 per gallon - no more.

People are willing to buy alternative fuel vehicles so long as they meet their needs. The fact that the BIG THREE have been behind the ball on this doesn't mean the whole nation should be punished.

Sincerely,

Mrs. Gray

[Gail]

Go, Bravus!

[Dr. Shane]

Actually high gas prices may stop the fed from increasing interest rates which could prolong the housing bubble.

I believe high gas prices will cause people to look for alternative fuels. Ethanol (E85) and biodisiel production has increased signifficantly over the past couple of years. Car companies already have cars and minivans on the market that can run on either gasoline or ethanol. It isn't just about the environment but also national security and economics.

How much of our trade deficit is due to our dependence on forgien fuel? If we were using more bio-fuels instead of sending our money overseas for forgien crude oil we would be keeping our money at home where it would be spent, invested and taxed. Cleaner-burning coal technology and garbage-burning should be used more for power plants.

There is no reason in the future that instead of filling stations having three grades of gasoline, they will have three or four fuels - gasoline, ethanol, hydrogen and biodesiel.

[Bravus]

<img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Thanx Gail

Shane, there is not unanimity among scientists, but there certainly is a consensus among those who actually work in that field that (a) climate change is happening and ( (more controversial but still consensus) it's human-caused. There was a scientific study, a critical literature review of climate change science, done recently. Here's the result:

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The drafting of such reports and statements involves many opportunities for comment, criticism, and revision, and it is not likely that they would diverge greatly from the opinions of the societies' members. Nevertheless, they might downplay legitimate dissenting opinions. That hypothesis was tested by analyzing 928 abstracts, published in refereed scientific journals between 1993 and 2003, and listed in the ISI database with the keywords "climate change".

The 928 papers were divided into six categories: explicit endorsement of the consensus position, evaluation of impacts, mitigation proposals, methods, paleoclimate analysis, and rejection of the consensus position. Of all the papers, 75% fell into the first three categories, either explicitly or implicitly accepting the consensus view; 25% dealt with methods or paleoclimate, taking no position on current anthropogenic climate change. Remarkably, none of the papers disagreed with the consensus position. (my emphasis)

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Full article in 'Science' magazine here: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686#ref9

Yes, there are a few scientists - largely from other fields, largely funded directly or indirectly by oil companies - who raise challenges to the consensus. There were a few swcientists for a very long time after the consensus was that smokingwas bad for you who continued to maintain that it was harmless or even healthy.

Mrs Gray: so basically what you're saying is that we can hand this problem off to our descendents, we don't have to worry about it. What that means in practical terms is that we get to drive our gas guzzlers for a few more years, then the economy crashes infinitely harder, faster, deeper and more permanently than the little dip we're about to see. And our grandchildren end up starving.

[Robert]

When our Government repudiates our constitution and bows the knee to those who pervert the gospel, then you'll see hell on earth.... Ah, but for this to happen the gospel must be fully restored. This hasn't happened, yet!

• "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations,

  [then what?]

  and then the end will come."

When the church stands united on the genuine gospel...when she renounces her self-righteousness and preaches the "truth as it is in Christ" - then you will see the devil's wrath....Until then this is nothing.

[Dr. Shane]

Climate change is happening. The issue is whether or not it is part of a cycle. We don't have records going back 500, 1,000 or 3,000 years. It could be that the climate has been changing ever since sin entered the world or since the flooding rains first fell.

[Dr. Shane]

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There were a few scientists for a very long time after the consensus was that smoking was bad for you who continued to maintain that it was harmless or even healthy.

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<img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/129933-offtopic2.gif" alt="" />

There are some that insist night is day and day is night. Others believe that since dogs don't have to wipe after going to the bathroom that they don't either. Yesterday a man tried to ship a package to his daughter in New Orleans.

I am not quite sure what the price of rice in China is but it might have something to do with this thread. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Bravus]

Nope, see, it's an example: if you wait for *unanimity*, you'll wait forever, because someone always has a reason to dissent (i.e. being generously funded by R J Reynolds). The best we can get is enough consensus to make it probable enough that it's the case that it's better to act than not act.

And as a matter of fact we do have very good and very detailed climate records going back at least 10,000 years from ice cores... and records going back much further than that using other methods. And they show that there have been much larger climate fluctuations in the past than we're seeing now - it's very true that the climate is complex and changes of its own accord in complex ways. What the records also show is that climatic carbon dioxide is at very unprecedentedly high levels. And we do know that the greenhouse mechanism works. What we don't know is in detail what that extra trapped energy is going to do to the climate. The climate is complex: it may end up doing all sorts of things. But we also know that the current climate works pretty well for us in terms of agriculture and so on. it wouldn't take a lot of disturbance to mess that up...

So I'm not claiming Katrina is evidence of climate change. Kind of by definition, no one event can be. But the fact that we're running at double the usual annual rate of hurricanes and tropical storms in the Atlantic for this season is at least suggestive. And the scientific consensus, as I noted earlier, is very clearly that there is climate change going on, and that our best models for explaining it include human activities as the major cause of those changes.

This is not something I even want to argue about any more: Google 'climate change consensus' yourself and do some reading if you have issues with the above statements. That's not a storming out statement or anything, it's just that I can't convince anyone who won't be convinced.

[Dr. Shane]

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And as a matter of fact we do have very good and very detailed climate records going back at least 10,000 years from ice cores...

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Since the earth isn't even that old I guess those are some questionable records <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />