Moderators Bravus Posted June 27, 2013 Moderators Share Posted June 27, 2013 Re-reading the last 5 chapters of The Great Controversy. Ellen White is very clear and insistent that a triumvirate of the papacy, apostate protestantism and spiritualism will bring in the Sunday Law. But spiritualism ended up being a brief 19th century craze. Is it to see a revival in the last days? Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Meaning no disrespect to EGW,I think she had a gift of prophecy; but I wonder if she didn't sometimes put her own interpretations on some of her visions. For example, was she actually "shown" that the big end-time issue will be "a matter of who we worship"; and, because of her involvement in promoting the Sabbath, she interpreted "a matter of worship" equivalent to "forcing Sunday on people"? IMO, frequently prophecies are misinterpreted. How many apostles who were filled with the Spirit at Pentecost mistakenly prophesying the imminent return of Christ? Could Sr. White have had the gift of prophecy, but not the gift of interpretation? Quote: Ellen White is very clear and insistent that a triumvirate of the papacy, apostate protestantism and spiritualism will bring in the Sunday Law.But spiritualism ended up being a brief 19th century craze. This is truly what the world looked like to EGW; so she interpreted her vision by what she saw in her world. Is it possible that if she lived today, she could see the exact same vision; and interpret that religion, politics, and global economic policy is the unholy trinity; and it will usher in a one world system of politics and religion that will usher in the end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I also just read the last chapters of the Great Controversy - there will have to be a shift of immense proportions in government's attitude in order to see the final events take place. Perhaps this is the Adventist's 'Peace and Safety' moment - when it looks so incredible of happening, Adventists dismiss EGW's words and convince themselves it can't happen in their lifetime.... Food for thought... Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hair Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Years ago, I used to have trouble with her statements regarding spiritualism. I just had a hard time thinking that it would be popular with modern educated people. However, in the last few years what I have seen has strengthened my faith in her statements. I think it has become very popular and is growing. All the movies involving angels and demons. The kids with witchcraft, Harry Potter etc. The whole Goth thing is rooted in spiritualism. Music, bands, groups. Psychics working with law enforcement... and the whole Pentecostal movement is growing rapidly. People used to laugh at the those who rolled in the floor and spoke in tongues. Now its cool, I see young kids, teenagers and many others who would use to laugh it off, now they are participating. There's several videos on you-tube now of teenagers speaking in tongues and hundreds of responses from other youths who have or want to experience the same. I also work with the youth at our church, late teens and young adults. You'd be amazed at how popular spiritualism is in our society today. I see spiritualism growing rapidly IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted June 27, 2013 Administrators Share Posted June 27, 2013 Or maybe it will all play out different from what we anticipate. Very few, if any, prophecies were correctly understood until after the fact. It even took the apostles quite some time after Jesus returned to heaven for them to make sense of all the Messianic prophecies. But the Jews were absolutely convinced they understood the prophecies correctly. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hair Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 You know... I've also always found it very hard to believe that some day there will be a national Sunday law passed. I believe it, but its hard to. I just can't see that happening... no way. We will be ordered to worship on one certain day? What about freedom of religion? Atheists? NFL Football? The Muslims? Like I said, I believe, but I'm going to be truly amazed if I see it in my day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hair Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Or maybe it will all play out different from what we anticipate. Very few, if any, prophecies were correctly understood until after the fact. It even took the apostles quite some time after Jesus returned to heaven for them to make sense of all the Messianic prophecies. But the Jews were absolutely convinced they understood the prophecies correctly. Very much agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted June 27, 2013 Administrators Share Posted June 27, 2013 Quote: Re-reading the last 5 chapters of The Great Controversy. Ellen White is very clear and insistent that a triumvirate of the papacy, apostate protestantism and spiritualism will bring in the Sunday Law. But spiritualism ended up being a brief 19th century craze. Is it to see a revival in the last days? These three are forms of authority and power exercised in our world today. From Holy relics that have powers, to manifestations of saints and communing with the dead saints and being blessed by them. And there is the impersonation of the Holy Spirit, experiencing the power of God to feel peace and power without surrender to His will. Satan offers power without offering the self sacrificing Character of Christ. He transforms himself as an angel of light, so he imparts power and light to Christians. The power of fear in superstition, the occult, trances, various forms of possession is not fading from the stage of life. The styled god of this world is happy to have power over people in any deceitful way, and use them to lord power over others, to bring them under his authority. He produces miracles and is able to really control masses. Movies and scripts have been dictated to the writers and performers by what was called automatic writing. His control to bring minds under his principles is not disappearing from society. Our nature alone has no power to resist Satan. We are fallen and conformed to his image of selfishness. The walk with Christ by faith is something we will have to struggle to hold onto, through many kinds of challenges. No one seems to escape the power of sin without some kind of struggle. The enemy does not want to lose any of his subjects. And struggling to escape the ways and means committee of spiritualism is no exception. The Name of the Lord is a mighty tower, the righteous runneth into it and are safe. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted June 27, 2013 Administrators Share Posted June 27, 2013 Life isn't over till it's over... You all know how fast events can come to pass in this world. We have survived the fall of the Soviet Union and apartheid. Who knew back before that happened that it was possible- and happen so rapidly to boot? I like what Tom has said, that prophecy is there so that when it happens, THEN we will know. As the Christians fled Jerusalem before Titus came back to finish off the war, they recognized the sign as it was happening and acted. The wise men of the East had the writings that talked about a "star coming out of Jacob", but it was when the mysterious light appeared in the heavens that they joined up this info with what they were experiencing. Then they acted. Be aware, and give it time. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted June 27, 2013 Administrators Share Posted June 27, 2013 At this time it's not hard to see a joining up of Catholicism and apostate Protestantism. Depending on where one looks, one can also see spiritualism within churches. To an extent the 3-fold union has begun. I can only wonder as to how far and how deep this will reach. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 27, 2013 Members Share Posted June 27, 2013 Absolutely Gail, its as plain as can be. we've had many blue laws on the books for years that have not been implemented for a number of years, which can easily be re-enforced at anytime. Look at whats happen through the years! How many times has the US reached over the sea to shake hands with the Pope? Reagan and the Pope got together to bring down the wall in Germany. I its only one thing but its a big one. I can easily see Sunday laws coming in with no problem. Look at our government and all the garbage that goes on, people will soon or are already demanding more honesty! How does that happen? As we slowing erode our constitution, etc., it will be very easy to ask the people to vote in some really bad laws that look good and might have the right intention, but for the wrong reasons. No, not hard for me to see at all. As far as spiritualism is concerned, have read a number of articles that talk about how its made a tremendous comeback. How many people are turning to it. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted June 27, 2013 Administrators Share Posted June 27, 2013 All it really takes is one big disaster to produce the needed paradigm shift. She mentions about multiple disasters happening and such laws as an attempt by government to get back to God, to return to His favour. The mainstream however doesn't realise that Sunday-keeping, law-enforced, doesn't restore the 10 commandments, the big moral standard of Christianity. Here in Canada where we are so multi-cultural it is hard to visualise religious laws. Quebec was the only province that really had to deal with church/state issues and since there was only one church that counted there it was between the Catholics and the secular population. But we are living in different times. Nothing really seems too big for our modern, global world. We are a generation that is used to rapid change. And rapid changes is what EGW predicted for the time right before Jesus comes. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 27, 2013 Members Share Posted June 27, 2013 Exactly Gail, all that happens now always happens globally. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Quote: And rapid changes is what EGW predicted for the time right before Jesus comes. Aren't we happy Jesus makes Himself responsible for making sure we're ready when He arrives. "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."Rom 8:38-39 NKJV "Even so it is that Christ, having been offered to take upon Himself and bear as a burden the sins of many once and once for all, will appear a second time, not to carry any burden of sin nor to deal with sin, but to bring to full salvation those who are [eagerly, constantly, and patiently] waiting for and expecting Him."Hebrews 9:28 AMP God cares! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted June 28, 2013 Administrators Share Posted June 28, 2013 We have elevated the Sabbath to be the ultimate test, the keeping of which will bring about the return of the Messiah to save us. The Jews also believed that it was the Sabbath that was the test, the perfect keeping of which would bring the Messiah to rescue them. But what did the Messiah himself say would be the test that would show who belonged to his kingdom? "Everyone will know you are my followers because you love one another." And in the final judgment that divides the saved from the lost, the saved will be those who showed that love even "unto the least of these." Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Difficult to get around those statements and others in the same venue as uttered by Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Quote: "Everyone will know you are my followers because you love one another." And in the final judgment that divides the saved from the lost, the saved will be those who showed that love even "unto the least of these." Quote: Difficult to get around those statements and others in the same venue as uttered by Christ. Amen, Tom and CoAspen. I believe that Sunday Laws could very well bring about the end. I believe a world-wide insugence of Islamic jihad requiring all of us to worship Allah is just as plausible. Or any of several other scenarios playing out on the planet. I'm confident of a couple of things - 1.Influence of the supernatural (good and evil) will sway many (maybe most) people. 2.The contraversy will be over compliance with the "one-world" system or compliance with the "Kingdom of God" system (i.e., who do you worship?) They are becoming increasingly incompatible and will soon become mutually exclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Textus Receptus Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Spiritualism is far more than just the New Age movement. Every church that believes in the immortal soul is practicing spiritualism. Frankly, if someone does not believe in soul sleep, they are in a spiritualist church. It is this belief that Lucifer will use to decieve those in the last days. How? well that is yet to be determined but I have some speculations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Yes, Spiritualism is very much alive in the world and in the churches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I have always said that a Christian inheritance is the God of Love...Our father is making us experts in how to love, and how to love better....It's a process that focus' on Him, not on ....other things.....If we have not practiced love today, what evidence is there that proves to yourself that you are His child? Focus on Our best Love..... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted June 28, 2013 Administrators Share Posted June 28, 2013 Quote: We have elevated the Sabbath to be the ultimate test, the keeping of which will bring about the return of the Messiah to save us. The Jews also believed that it was the Sabbath that was the test, the perfect keeping of which would bring the Messiah to rescue them. But what did the Messiah himself say would be the test that would show who belonged to his kingdom? i am reminded of Daniel in response to your comments. Yes, the test the world brought on Daniel was would he continue to pray under threat of punishment. it was an outward behavior they could see and measure to express their control. but what was the power of his testimony that he knew God? Daniel was uncompromising, he loved God more then he loved the favor of man. Daniel was a man who lead in spiritual devotion to God with the group of individuals he worshiped with. Daniel was in submission to the Holy Spirit. He loved and lived the Character of God, and was honored by God. it was the enemy of God who hated Daniel and he moved people to war against Daniel. the attack on Daniel took the form of something that they could legislate. i don't think it would be simple to legislate that people cannot or can be loving and be united in the Holy Spirit. But it will only be people who are loving and filled with the Spirit who will be empowered by God to stand. in Hebrews 12 it says, "you have not yet resisted sin to the point of shedding your blood". we have not yet been tested by the coercion of legislation. But it is something that comes on the people of God over and over in scripture, starting with Abel, and the prophets, and the early Christians, and through the inquisition. Our loving will certainly be the witness to save others. It is so true only the goodness of God leads to any repentance. Our obedience to God rather then man will bring more attention to the issue. It will likely be the first time many will see the Character of God. We are being tested every day. Will we love, will we be about ourselves, or will we be about our Father's business? Are we showing His love to a world that does not know Him. Like Jesus God works through us to be a savor of life unto life and death unto death. The world will not become guilty of the blood of the saints of all time until they shed it again. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted June 28, 2013 Administrators Share Posted June 28, 2013 I like this: Quote: But it will only be people who are loving and filled with the Spirit who will be empowered by God to stand. in Hebrews 12 it says, "you have not yet resisted sin to the point of shedding your blood". Yes, it is possible to oversimplify the big test to be that of Sunday legislation, or even of love, for that matter. But love is the basic one. And our testing area may vary from person to person- that seems quite plausible to me. It seems quite human nature to reduce this to a checklist of obedience. Our lives need to reflect Jesus. Do we have the mind of Christ in our daily walk? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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