Greek Orthodoxy and the Sabbath

[Don777]

Conversion and Seventh-day Adventists

Quote:

Question: I am thinking about converting to Greek Orthodoxy. My readings suggest that our religions don’t seem to differ too much and feel that I can have a better marriage and relationship with God if my partner and I were the same religion. We have spoken to a Greek Orthodox priest about this and he did explain some small differences between our religions but there was one question I was seeking further information about. In my religion we worship and keep the Sabbath day (Saturday) holy but in Greek Orthodoxy you worship on Sundays. Would you be able to expand on this and what the priest meant about also keeping the Sabbath day? My main concern about converting is related to this one commandment in the Bible about keeping the seventh day holy. What the Greek Orthodox church's perspective is on this commandment?

Answer: The Greek term Kyriake (translated, the Day of the Lord) is mentioned several times in the New Testament. References in St. Paul’s letters to Kyriake/Sunday indicate that the early church began to meet on Kyriake/Sunday rather than on the Sabbath to conduct the Divine Liturgy. The reason why this switch takes place is because Jesus resurrected on Kyriake/Sunday or the first day of the week.

Based on these changing traditions, the Orthodox Church continues to acknowledge the Sabbath as a day of rest, but it also celebrates the Divine Liturgy (it's main service) on Kyiake/Sunday (the day of the Lord) because Jesus Resurrected on Sunday or the first day of the week. (emphasis added)

I hope this doesn't confuse you more.

http://www.goarch.org/archdiocese/depart...d-seventh-day-1

Observations

1) I wonder how the Greek Orthodox people observe the Sabbath.

2) It would be interesting to see how the Greek Orthodox church understands the heavenly sanctuary, the state of the dead and eternal torment of the wicked.

[Gail]

My mother was Greek Orthodox

[debbym]

our Greek orthodox church in my neighborhood, changed to Russian orthodox for some political reasons last year, but the service i believe it the same.

i spoke with a priest/pastor some time back.

his name had been changed to zInnocent, and they did have some form of Sabbath observance.

my daughter attended the service, men on one side, women on the other, they all stand through the service, it is composed of singing and scripture, the women wear little hats and dress very modest for church.

very religious people, they have a wonderful school.

and they ring these bells like 9 of them or more, in sing song order, three or four bell ringers every Sunday morning about one block from my house. the bells are engraved with various saints. i do not know all the significance.

they have a Russian dome on the top of the building that is actually covered in real gold.

they have extensive saints.

[Textus Receptus]

After Vatican II, Saturday Obvervance is now valid as a Sunday Observance. Granted, they are RCC and Orthodoxy have differences, but the mechanisms with regards to liturgy are very similar. Furthermore, there is evidence that RMCC and Orthodoxy are again reuniting visvis a counter reformation.

[Windsor]

I don't believe that Greek Orthodox priest ever picked up a copy of "From Sabbath to Sunday".

[Genevieve]

When "Keep the Sabbath holy" was commanded, there was no Temple to worship and no tabernacle.   They were roaming.  So the Sabbath was a day of rest for the Jews (to set aside) but not a day of worship as it is today.  Later before Christ, when the Jews stopped roaming, had their tabernacle and eventually settled down and built a Temple...it seemed only natural to worship God on the day of rest.  So, yes...Jesus did go to the Temple on the Sabbath.  Meanwhile, early christians also worshipped in the Temple before it was destroyed in AD70; however at sunset they met with other Christians in homes for the Agape Meal and Lord's Supper, to sing psalms and the apostles would then speak and encourage the Christians with scripture and share letters etc.  This often ran late into the night. Without birth control, many Christians had large families and staying later and later became problematic.   So the early Christians shifted this practice from what we know as Saturday night to Sunday morning. Eventually with the Temple being destroyed...a more liturgical meeting incorporated many aspects of the Temple worship on Kyriake, the Lord's Day.  You will read In the bible that they assigned presbyteros and episcopos (elders).  These two Greek words are where we get the words presbyter (abbv. priest) and bishop in English.  The first century Liturgy of St. James is the oldest and is 5 hours long.  Then shortened to the Liturgy of St. Basil (4 hours) in the 2nd and 3rd Century. And by the 4th century it was shortened to about 2 hours which is the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom...which is still used today.  The other two are used on the feast days as a remeberance of the respective saint.  They all focus on communion as the central act.  This is considered to be the Heavenly Banquet.  (We forget how precious a banquet can be for those who are poor.)  So Kyriake represents the 8th day, where Jesus arose, the Christians have common union with God through his Heavely Banquet with Jesus as the pasqual lamb (like Passover) that passed over death by all who consume Him.  We should rest on the Sabbath and many attend a Saturday evening Vespers service.  As we are one in the body...Jesus rested in the tomb on the Sabbath.  Again, also being united by Holy Communion (Common Union) our salvation as the Bride of Christ is collective not individual salvation. The Church is seen as the Ark (Noah).  So everything we do is for the Body of Christ or against it. The monastics perhaps observe the Sabbath rest day best...yet they are like our Navy Seals of Orthodoxy.  They also still pray the Hours mentioned in Acts.  The rest of us do what we are able and as we are called. The Sabbath was created for man, and not man for the Sabbath.  (I am paraphrasing what my Greek priest told me.)

[Genevieve]

I would also like to add that the New Testament was not collected until the 4th century and voted upon by the Episcopos (bishops) to be scripture.  Each church had fragements of the New Testament...and it was finally officially considered Scripture in the 4th century...long after the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom was already in practice.  You will see in a liturgy that the Gospel and Epistles are seperate books read at designated times...this goes back to the days of loose scrolls and only reading what they had, to encourage one another to hold fast to the traditions handed down to them either by word or epistle.   At the time the New Testament was written...only the Old Testament was considered scripture and Jesus and the Apostles used the Greek Translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint. The cool thing about the Greek Language is that each word is very precise with not much wiggle room on the meanings of words.  I was told it is like those cool detailed legos compared to toddler fat legos in comparing the biblical Greek to English.  I have re-read some of the verses with the understanding of Kione Greek words, and I was blown away at how some verses that I though I knew were really quite different with the Greek terms that are not vague.  Today the old testament (Law and Prophets) is read in light of the Resurection and through the prophecy fullfilment of Jesus, as he did not come to abolish the old testament but to fullfill it.  Testament means covanant.  The Jews broke the old covanant when they were in Exile in Babylon. The new covanant is in the blood Jesus Christ for both Jew and Gentile.  This covanant of Love commands that we love God with all our hearts and our neighbor as ourselves...in doing so, we are fullfilling the 10 commandments.   When we fall short we have respentance (reaiming our lives to God) and we have the strength of God through His Grace, the uncreated divine energy that is given us in Holy Communion among other things.   That said...we continually connect to this Grace as prepation to stand before God's divine Love which will either be a blessing or a curse (burn like Hellfire) depending on the condition of our heart.  I could go on, but it is very deep and complex but beatuiful.  In the Orthodox Traditions handed down from the teachings of the Apostles, God is seen as Love even in the old testament (even at Sodom and Gamorah) in the light of the death, burial and resurection of Jesus.  Take care and God bless.

[BobRyan]

When "Keep the Sabbath holy" was commanded, there was no Temple to worship and no tabernacle.   They were roaming.  So the Sabbath was a day of rest for the Jews (to set aside) but not a day of worship as it is today.

 

Lev 23:1-3 the Sabbath was a day of "Holy Convocation" prior to building the Temple - it was  not merely a rest day.

Is 66:23 the Sabbath is a day of worship for all mankind 'From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship".

Is 58:13 the Sabbath is the Lord's Day - no other day of the week is given that title.  IN the NT Sunday is always - "Week day 1"  never "Sabbath" and never "the Lord's Day" NASB

“If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot
From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,
And call The Sabbath a delight, the Holy Day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,

Mark 2:28 "the Son of Man is LORD of the Sabbath"

 

Replacing God's Sabbath with man made tradition is the mark of rebellion.

According to Christ -- in the Gospels -- the most effective way to invalidate your worship in the sight of God is to replace His direct command with man-made-tradition.

Mark 7

⁶ And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
⁷ ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’

⁸ Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”

⁹ He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. ¹⁰ For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; ¹¹ but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ ¹² you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; ¹³ thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

 

In Matt 10 Christ said that we are to take up our cross and follow Him - or else...

You have said it will bring more peace if you give up the Bible Sabbath - and the doctrines of the church  -

Christ said you are right --

 

Matt 10

³² “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. ³³ But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

³⁴ “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. ³⁵ For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; ³⁶ and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.

³⁷ “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. ³⁸ And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. ³⁹ He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

================================================

The saints in all ages have had to give up their lives for the truth as it is found in the Word of God - for Christ is "the way the TRUTH and the Life" -- Truth is never popular or easy - but it is always the difference between life and death in the eyes of God.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Edited August 4, 2015 by BobRyan

[BobRyan]

 

1) I wonder how the Greek Orthodox people observe the Sabbath.

 

2) It would be interesting to see how the Greek Orthodox church understands the heavenly sanctuary, the state of the dead and eternal torment of the wicked.

1. They observe it on Sunday .The RCC allows observance after 6pm on Saturday in the evening-to-evening model for Sunday keeping. Saturday at 6pm they view as Sunday.

2. The GO believes in immortal soul, and eternal infinite torment in hell immediately at death.

 

Sabbath and the issue of the immortal soul are the two end-times issues that will come up and the saints will need to take a stand

[BobRyan]

Some people think that all Buddhists and Hindus etc do not go to heaven - but I think that in fact some will go to heaven because they are living up to all the light that they have. This is also the case with those in the Greek Orthodox church - some among them also go to heaven as in all groups.

 

But if you were living in Japan and married a Buddhist wife and then agreed to go to the Buddhist temple with her - but on Saturday to make sure you were keeping the Sabbath - would this really be the sort of thing that God approves of just because it was on Saturday and not... Sunday??

[Genevieve]

In Kione Greek the first day of the week is Kyriake...which follows the 7th day of the week...which is the Sabbath.  Kyrios means Lord. No Greek calls Sunday the Sabbath, that is still Saturday.  But the worship with in the Orthodox Church has not changed other than to be condenced or translated into the language of the people.  Our liturgical books that we recite (sing) our services from is the same text used by the early Christians. At my Greek Parish we still do services in the Kione Greek and there are people that understand it.  Sometimes we do parts in English.  I have been to over 20 Orthodox parishes from several Jurisdictions.  I go to Saturday vespers at a parish from the Jursalem patriarchate.  Their tradition is in Arabic (the closest language to Aramaic). Through the laying on of hands it traces it's roots to St. James the brother of Jesus.  My Greek Parish traces it's roots to St. Andrew the brother of Peter.  We both practice the faith the same.  We have not had a council in over 1000 years...so we both saved the same traditions.  Same for the Russian...a missionary Church of Greece.  Keep in mind that every epistle written to the early churches in the bible...each of those city churches (Cornith, Thesalonika, Colosses, Antioch, etc.) are Greek Orthodox today...except the Church at Rome which broke away from us in AD1054 and all other Christian Church have broken off of Rome. Every church that the Apostles planted in the Holy Land mentioned in the New Testament is Orthodox today, except those under Rome's jurisdiction which are Roman Catholic today.  If protestants had known of the Orthodox Church when Rome kept adding innovations after leaving Orthodoxy...there would not be 33K denominations and no 7th day adventist.  God promised to protect the Church that started at Pentacost from the gates of Hades and the Church is the pillar of Truth...did God lie and let the Church fall away? Or could it be that being in the West with a hatred from Rome and all things Catholic has blinded us to seeing that the Church was there all along unadulterated in the Eastern half of Christendom hidden in plain sight?

[CoAspen]

Hmmmm........interesting.

[Genevieve]

You can not take the bible out of context.  If you trust what the Church preserved, saved, and how they used their Traditions to determine which books should become New Testament Scripture, then you can not take that collection of writings to try and invalidate the very Traditions of the people that gave you the book in the first place.  Either you trust those Early Church Bishops to use the Apostalic Tradition to give you the Bible or you don't and at that point the bible is worthless.  It is easy to research what they taught...there is masses and masses of early Christian texts by hundreds of early church fathers to compare what is the core of what they taught.  No one in this modern age of information should have to interpret what the bible means or guess at what the early christian church believed.  The bible is a part of that tradition and history and it must be kept in context.  

[brotherly love]

You can not take the bible out of context.  If you trust what the Church preserved, saved, and how they used their Traditions to determine which books should become New Testament Scripture, then you can not take that collection of writings to try and invalidate the very Traditions of the people that gave you the book in the first place.  Either you trust those Early Church Bishops to use the Apostalic Tradition to give you the Bible or you don't and at that point the bible is worthless.  It is easy to research what they taught...there is masses and masses of early Christian texts by hundreds of early church fathers to compare what is the core of what they taught.  No one in this modern age of information should have to interpret what the bible means or guess at what the early christian church believed.  The bible is a part of that tradition and history and it must be kept in context.  

I have agreed with much of what you have stated except this one post. The early church fathers still have to be interpreted in light of the Bible, not the other way around. The early church fathers do contradict each other in many cases.

[Genevieve]

What I am refering to is the phromea (sp) of the Early Church Fathers. It is the collective mindset.  The challenge with reading from from a Western scholastic mindset, (myself at one time), is that we often read the Fathers with the filter of later innovations.  Major Western influences include Origen, Augustine, and the Archbishop of Canterbury in the 12th century...his name escapes me, but he wrote "Why God became man".  Those 3 shaped Christianity into a legal construct that doesn't exist in the East because their influence didn't cross the Latin-Greek Language barrier.  Origen set up Original Sin as guilt inherited where as the West sees the Fall as inheriting a poluted fallen world but man is responisible for his own sin...not ancestral sin from Adam and Eve.  2nd idea not in the East is by Augustine was his influence from the Moors reviving philosophy in the West.  Plato has influence and Augustine contributed the ideas that flesh is sinful and that Christianity could be intellectualized like philosophy.  It started becoming an idea with schools of thought.  Where the East sees Christianity as a mystery of Grace guarded, handed down and protected and beyond finite conprehension. Also, the East believes creation was made Holy through the Incarnation...the flesh is not condemned but has been redeemed and can be made Holy with God's purifing Grace...so the Fall only blurred the image and likeness of God in man.  Then lastly, the 12th century...the Archbishop was a lawyer in German Fudal Law....where a crime's punishment is based on the status of the victim.  Nobody cares if a peasent is a victim but if it is a King...off with their head.  So he applied this logic to the Fall and God now has wounded honor and is man has an eternal crime to pay from Adam and Eve so we now need an eternal savior to pay the crime.  So instead of Jesus saving mandkind from sin and death, now with the introduction of this in the West...Jesus saves mankind from the wrath of God.  So God sends Jesus to save us from God according to Western teachings.  The Catholics add works to this teaching and most protestants don't but it is two sides of the same coin.  In the East Salvation is more dimentional, each parable like sides of a diamond that collectively make up the salvation story which is more than the cross. In the East, Salvation is participating in the mysteries handed down to allow God and his Grace to restore and tranform the person into the image of God again...and icon of Jesus.  God is pure love and all perception of wrath is man's reaction to that divine love with a damaged nous. If man is preparing his nous to see God and expirience this love...that love will be like Paridise in the presence of His Glory...a cold hearted nous will expirience that same Glory as Hellfire and will be regretful and find it agonizing.  So all the mysteries of the Church allow for the purification of the nous by God's grace so man can love God with all his heart and his neighbor as himself.  And Jesus rescues us from dying (eternal seperation) and from sin (which we bring on ourselves and harm ourselves and others). He then shows us the Way to Salvation.   God bless.

[Genevieve]

I meant the West sees Original sin as the guilt of Adam passed on...the East sees it like a puluted gift that we must live with.

[Sojourner]

Did the Seventh-day Adventist Church not meet with the Serbian Orthodox Church to discuss what we have in common at some stage in recent times?