Americans are not refugees

[aldona]

From today's newspaper (The Age, Melbourne);

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September 8, 2005

Americans are not refugees. Apparently refugees are people you see on television in foreign countries.

President George Bush objected to the people who sought refuge from the storm in other cities being described that way.

"The people we're talking about are not refugees," he said. "They are Americans and they need the help and love and compassion of our fellow citizens."

Technically, he may be correct. In the language of diplomacy, they would be called "internally displaced persons". The 1951 UN Refugee Convention describes a refugee as someone who has fled across an international border to escape violence or persecution.

Black leaders have also objected to the term. "It is racist to call American citizens refugees," the Reverend Jesse Jackson said.

There have been accusations that the slow response was motivated by racism as the majority of those left behind were black.

Most of the media have avoided the term. The Washington Post, The Miami Herald and The Boston Globe have banned it.

The Washington Post's executive editor, Leonard Downie jnr, wrote in an email to his staff: "A number of people, from officials speaking publicly to colleagues here, said the term 'refugees' appeared to imply that people displaced from New Orleans... were other than Americans."

The most common description of the people now in refuges in Louisiana, Arkansas and Texas is evacuees.

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So now it is racist to call someone a refugee.

If the general public was not accustomed to treating so-called refugees with contempt, this debate would not be necessary.

After all, Jesus was a refugee, as was the entire nation of Israel when then fled from Egypt.

If I ever had to flee to another place to escape persecution or natural disaster, I pray that I would not be too proud to accept the same term.

aldona

[Dr. Shane]

I agree. It seems to be political correctness to the extreame. When someone seeks refuge from whatever, doesn't that make them a refugee?

[Gail]

There are many IDPs where my son is, and that is what they call them. They are displaced persons left over from the civil war in that country

For all intents and purposes, though, they sure seem like refugees, having to live like them

Not a pretty word, is it? It doesn't surprise me that someone would want to create a euphenism for them

[lazarus]

What you call yourself and what you allow yourself to be called is important.

It is significant that in previous disasters in the United States people were never called Refugees. The news media always refer's non-whites as refugees. Whites are refered to as internally displaced persons or some other term.

With the four hurricanes that occured last year no one was refereed to as a refugee...why???

In general, refugees have been those who have been displaced to a country that is not their own. It is not extreem to suggest that perhaps the use of this term belies the fact that these folks in are in some way even now these black people are considered to be ...2/5ths American!

In an interesting slip Wolf Blitzer (CNN) said last night...."these people are so poor and so black"

[Gail]

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In an interesting slip Wolf Blitzer (CNN) said last night...."these people are so poor and so black"

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And that is so hilarious! You are right, he slipped on that one

[Neil D]

Quote:

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What you call yourself and what you allow yourself to be called is important.

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I like this observation.

I think that there are no refugees...only survivors, from Katrina, from the incompetance of the goverment, from the looters/gangs...

These are truely survivors and know how to survive in adverse situations.

As a side note-

Lazurus, thanks for the post and nice of you to join us...

[Dr. Shane]

A rose by any other name is still a rose. A wise man once asked a boy, If we call a cow's tail a leg, how many legs would a cow have? The boy answered, "five". No, the wiseman replied, it would still only have four.

The only label that matters to me is "Christian" and I hope others call me that without me having to tell them. And as the old cliche goes, call me anything except late for supper. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[lazarus]

Shane,

I understand you underlying point and I appreciate it.

I was called a seventh-day adventurer once. It was quite funny. They either misheard or were trying to poke fun. I corrected them because names, descriptions and titles are important.

God changed Abram's name, Jacobs name. It seems as if the names given to children in Bible times were somehow prophetic. Is it possible that what you allow people to call you can have a bearing on what you become.

Nebuchadnezzar changed the Hewbrew boy's names because he wanted to assimilate them.

Very often if you call a child worthless, useless he begins to think he is worthless and useless and then act as if he is those things.

What black people have called themselves and allowed themselves to be called has evolved..They have been called or called themselves... Niggers...Negroes....Colored...Black....African-American

To be called refugees, in this context, is indicative that there is a lot of work left to be done...by all of us!

[Halfstep Denise]

For those of you who are too young to remember - people who had to leave war-torn areas, such as Viet Nam for many years have been called refugees, whether they just left the local area or went to another country.

Jesse Jackson is just trying to get some attention, whether he's right or not. And I think he's very wrong. IHMO

You want to talk about words? I was born with Spina Bifida and have had to use crutches and now a wheelchair. I've been called crippled, disabled, mobility impaired and handicapped!! Just call me Denise or Mrs. Farquhar or even "hey you" might do it!

A few years ago, I boarded, with help, a flight to Seattle. Before takeoff, the pilot came back and asked if there was a particular way I wanted to be picked up in an emergency! I told him, just get me off this plane!!! Don't worry about technique!

Anyway, those who wanted and needed to leave the Hurricane areas, most of them probably don't really care about terminology - just get them out and to safety!

Denise

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

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lazarus said:

What you call yourself and what you allow yourself to be called is important.

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[:"red"] "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth." [/] Hebrews 11:13 KJV

Our skin color, our reputation, our circumstances, our labels, all or none are who we are if we be Christ's. We are entering into the narrows of this earth's history and we better be about putting on the robe of righteousness Jesus gives us.

[:"red"] "Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King." [/] Psalm 149:2 KJV

[:"red"] "...Jesus....said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God." [/] Mark 10:14 KJV

[lazarus]

The 1951 United nations Refugee Convention describes a refugee as someone who has fled across an international border to escape violence or persecution.

[Dr. Shane]

It seems the black leadership in America wants to make racial issues where there are none. Being in an inter-racial marriage, I am quite sensative and well aware of the harm it continues to do. But I see no good coming from Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton crying racism everytime any thing happens with a black person.

The black community in America has many of the same problems as the hispanic community. 1. High rates of drug addiction 2. High rates of children born out of wedlock 3. High rates of high school dropouts. Combining those three problems will spell poverty for any community; brown or yellow, black or white. If black leadership wants to fight poverty within their community these are the areas they will focus on instead of always talking about how "the man" is against them.

[lazarus]

It seems that some white folks very often are not able to see racism when they practice it or when it stares them in the face.

During the civil rights era white folks did NOT say "hey, we're wrong...you do deserve the right to vote, to ride the bus, drink from the same water fountain. Black people had to fight, protest, demonstrate.

Some White Seventh-day Adventists did not take a stand and call out the sin of racism that festered in their own churches...its weird...they just did not see it.

I don't speak for Jackson or Sharpton and they don't always speak for me. They are not "the black leadership". Its like saying Rush Limbaugh and Sean Vanity are the White leadership...perhaps they speak for you but I am sure they don't speak for all white people.

You assume that the black leadership do not focus on these issues. They do. Black pastors, Congressmen, Lawyers, Doctors, spend many hours mentoring, teaching, encouraging and supporting. Black teen drug use and pregnancy is falling.

They also talk about how White folks have not understood their past experience and their current perspective. They talk about how some white Christians are perhaps more racist and ignorant than the atheist ALCU supporting liberals that white evangelicals so despise.

[Dr. Shane]

I understand well racism. As I stated, I am in an inter-racial marriage and have to deal with racism on a freaquent basis. I grew up in a vietnemese neighborhood in Seattle until I was 16 and moved to Minnesota. When I got married the only white guys in the wedding was my brother and I. I have experienced racism in and outside of the church.

Let's not even talk about what happened before we were born. That isn't productive. If we want to talk about 35 years of affirmative action and about all the opportunities I didn't get because I was born poor white trash with divorced, alcoholic parents, we can go there.

So let's look at black leadership. If one watches the news one will see Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton representing blacks all the time. Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hanity do not present themselves as representing white people. Reverands Jackson and Sharpton do. But if these reverands are not the leadership, who is? Rappers? Actors? Atheletes? When I watch black television programs I do not see anyone discourageing premarital sex or drug use although I have seen them exalt education. Poor Bill Cosby, he seems like the lone voice of reason. Don't tell me Walter Williams is somehow a leader in the black community? Clarance Thomas? Colon Powell? Condalica Rice?

The Latin community isn't much better. The George Lopez show is a terrible influence on the community. Jenifer Lopez is hardly a fine example for any young latin girl. Good role models like Jackie Velaaquez don't get much of the lime light.

[Naomi]

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It seems that some white folks very often are not able to see racism when they practice it or when it stares them in the face.

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Nor can some black folks see racism when they pratice it or when it stares them in the face. It is a two way street.

There were many poor white folks in the Dome, the center, and up and down the Gulf Coast. Everyone equally suffered and was lost. True you saw more blacks because they are the majority in the area. There were also many blacks driving their SUVs out before it Katrina hit land.

If you want to make a difference do the paper work, get the innoculations and go help. That's what I'm doing!

If you choose to put so much effort put into trying to make it a race issue, how will we live together in Heaven?

I have to wonder why you lurked as you said and only now decided to appear on one issue. What are your intentions?

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lazarus said:During the civil rights era white folks did NOT say "hey, we're wrong...you do deserve the right to vote, to ride the bus, drink from the same water fountain. Black people had to fight, protest, demonstrate.

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Lazarus, I have no idea of your age. This I can tell you from experience, during the civil rights era white folks DID SAY "hey, we're wrong, etc." You might want to take the color-blinders off and check your history.

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lazarus said:They also talk about how White folks have not understood their past experience and their current perspective. They talk about how some white Christians are perhaps more racist and ignorant than the atheist ALCU supporting liberals that white evangelicals so despise.

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They can talk all they want, and assume all you want. Bottom line it is a class issue, not race!!!!!!!!

Lazarus, I am the child of immagrants. We made our living on a farm, raising and picking our cotton. Cardboard in our shoes in the winter to go to school. Wearing clothes made by mothers hand sewing from feed sack material, We ate what we could raise and sometimes it was mush and milk. Daily we gave thanks for the cow and the chickens. I was 10 years old before we had electircity. Running water came from us running inside with a bucket.

We stood proud that we supported ourselves and that none of our family asked the government, or anyone, for help.

Lazarus, we had black neighbors that did the same. The women, black & white, together, washed their clothes(my baby clothes) in the creek.

Now, I am not 100 years old. I am not even old enough for retirement. Those have been/are conditions in our "modern day"

At one time or another in history every race has suffered for it's race, religion, nationality, bloodline, etc. Life is not fair on this old ball of mud. That's just the way it is.

As blacks you have opportunities and a lot of public support. But, it is such a turn off to keep playing the race card! Get Real

[Taylor]

Shane, with your background you are a testimony to what God can do in our lives! None of us come from perfect backgrounds, but God and you are to be commended for what you are today, verses what you saw in your family growing up. That is the point I think we all need to see....there is a lot of value in kids/people of all ages and races, even if they seem to come from unpleasant, or not good circumstances or families. God can use anyone and he just loves to pick people out and turn them around, give them a reason for living, and an emotionally healthy life. We need to see through God's "rose tinted glasses" and see people as what they "can be" through God's help.

[Taylor]

I am a caucasion person but I grew up in another culture outside the USA. I hate racism of any type and don't understand it, to this day. People, to me are people, and are to be respected and loved as such. However, other than treating everyone with the same respect, honestly loving them and spending time with them, (and btw I have some many close friends of various races. Fact is most of my closests friends are not of the same race as I.)

However, what can I do to "make right" the dreadful issues in our past history? I always feel sad for what any racisms has done to any race, but what can I do about it? I don't know if my ancestors were racist or slave owners as I don't know enough about my ancestors back that far. If they were racist, that would be very disturbing to me and embarass me to no end, but how can a caucasian person do anything to help what happend years ago for which we had no part, other than treat everyone with love and respect. Any ideas? I would be interested in knowing your opinion. (And BTW, welcome!)

[Naomi]

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Taylor said:

Shane, with your background you are a testimony to what God can do in our lives!

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Shane,

I just want to acknowledge Taylor's sentiments and agree. You have came a long way and will go much further. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Naomi

[Bravus]

I can see points on all sides, but I think we whites do need to have some humility and listen to our black brothers and sisters' perspectives. This is for two reasons: (1) In social situations, perceptions have the same consequences as realities and (2) No matter how we try to empathise ans stay in touch, our experience is our experience, and is different.

[Neil D]

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Bravus said:

I can see points on all sides, but I think we whites do need to have some humility and listen to our black brothers and sisters' perspectives. This is for two reasons: (1) In social situations, perceptions have the same consequences as realities and (2) No matter how we try to empathise ans stay in touch, our experience is our experience, and is different.

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I was talking to Randy Maxwell's mother many years ago over race [if you don't know who Randy Maxwell is, by way of introduction, you need to read his book "If My People Pray" by Pacific Press. Randy's mom used to have a radio program before they moved from Mountain View California to Nampa, Idaho]...She was honest about her observations. She said that given the same economics, a white and a black person will experience and have different perceptions inherantly due to thier race and how they have interacted with society around them. And yet, if they were honest Christians, they could interact with each other and have a great relationship.

She is a wise black woman.

[Taylor]

Well, her son, Randy Maxwell is a really neat person so I am sure she is a wonderful person who has a balanced perspective on life.

[Neil D]

Yeah, he knows who I am too.

My kids went to Gem State with his kids. I think I can say that we are more than aquainted with each other...His wife is a wonderful secretary....Cauldwell school is lucky to have her...

[Taylor]

Neat! I don't know him personally, as in face to face, but did some online discussions with him one time and found him to be a really neat person, compassionate, has a sense of humor, very dedicated, and balanced individual. You are fortunate to know that family in person.

[Fran]

I guess I am all mixed up. I am really into genealogy. I have discovered I am a descendant of German Royalty, 100% pure Spanish Castilian Royalty, Norwegian Royalty, and much more.

However, when all this royalty hit the dirt of America, it was all mixed up. My pure Castilian g-g-grandfather and his pure Castilian wife became slave traders. His son, my g-grandfather carried it on up to the Civil war. They had a great plantation in GA.

In those days the slaves took the masters names and even named their children the same names. They are linked to my family now. I have Irish, Scottish, Spanish, African, Mexican, French, Italian, Canadian and one thing led to another and in came the Cherokee and Choctaw Indians!

We adopted an American Indian and 5 Eskimo's. And you guys wonder why I am like I am! I am a symbol of every war ever fought. I am a descendant of everything. I can do war dances and smoke peace pipes! Now I am as poor as dirt, but I am proud of my heritage; all of it. I have it all!

I am not responsible for my forefathers for owning and selling slaves, nor am I proud of it. It just was. I won’t try to deny it. I can’t apologize for them; however I know they were sorry.

I have copies of letters from my g-grandfather to his wife and from her to him at the Alton, IL Union Prison in 1863-1865. He was sorry.

From my view, all mankind is a child of the King. Jesus dies for us all. We may look different and have different walks in life, but Jesus sent his spirit to all of us alike. God is no respecter of persons. This includes me and everyone else.

No one can pull the race card on me because I have the full deck!

[LifeHiscost]

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Naomi said:

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Whoa, Texas Princess! Spoken like a true Texan. I'm glad I'm not living in that Texas town where there is a public

ordinance to carry a sidearm. I'm agin' totin' firearms, and you don't sound much like a pacifist to me.

[:"red"] "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." [/]

Galatians 3:28 KJV

[:"red"] "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all." [/] Colossians 3:11 KJV

[:"red"] "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." [/] Luke 23:34 KJV

Hope you have a happy Sabbath, little lady! Keep the faith!