Robert Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Quote: LifeHiscost said: I maintain that God saw Job blameless and perfectly righteous for the same reason He sees other of His children blameless and righteous, because they individually trust in the continuous cleansing of the blood of Jesus.... Now remember that Job existed long before Christ, as the Son of Man, became our righteousness. Job was forgiven by God's forbearance knowing that His Son, Jesus, would become mankind's righteousness received by faith. So yes, I guess you could argue that God saw Job righteous through the future righteousness of His Son, but I don't see that as the context. Satan is the accuser of the brethren, right? What's his accusation? That God has no right to take believing sinners to heaven because God's own law says, "The soul that sins, it must die." Here Satan is right....None of us are measuring up to God's love as briefly described in the Ten Commandments. So how does God answer Satan's charges? "The gospel"....That is, "in Christ" fallen humanity has met all the legal demands of God's Holy law. The problem is that God wasn't "justifying" Job in Christ's future righteousness...Job was to busy justifying himself! That's why Elihu's anger burned, because [:"red"]"he [Job] justified himself before God[:"black"]." Ed refuses to accept this fact! God couldn't justify Job before Satan's accusations while Job was busy justifying his own self. Since Job was not in heavenly courts before God and Satan, God had to pass to Satan Job's self-justification of himself. In other words God is saying, "Job I can't justify you before Satan's accusations because you are too busy maintaining your own righteousness. Therefore I can't represent you, and legally speaking, you forfeit My protection. But since you can't fully see your own self-righteous heart, I'll not fully abandon you." The lesson here? Bragging on our righteousness negates Christ's vindication of us in Himself. Eventually, like Job, we will be left to defend ourselves before Satan's accusations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Quote: sorry, you lose! No doubt this is a heated debate, but you know what? my nature, your nature is showing its ugly head. No...we are not killing each other, but we are being sarcastic. It's ironic that the nature loves to be right even in spiritual things. Anyway, by the grace of God I will aim to be firm when delivering my beliefs...but without the sarcasm and ego. Apologies, Rob PS: Even Jack Sequeira realized his view on Job was nontraditional. Here's what he said: "Let's look at another case study of repentance from self-righteousness. This one may create a bit of a problem in your mind, because I want to give a nontraditional interpretation to a familiar person in the Bible - the book of Job." [Laodecia, p. 88] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Job 1:11 “But put forth Thy hand now and touch all that he has; he [Job] will surely curse Thee to Thy face.” Did Job, after all that was said and done, give up his belief in God? NO! Did Job, after all that was said and done, give up "his righteousness" in return for the righteousness of God? YES! So Satan was wrong, Job didn't give up on God like his wife did. But Job did have a terrible lesson to learn. Unlike Job, the majority of the Jews in Christ's time would not let go of their righteousness. After all they had the law and according to their estimation, they had kept it. That is why they rejected Christ...they were good people and righteous people do not need a Savior...much less an advocate in the heavenly places. Job repented...they, the Jews, did not. What happened: Job's goods and protection were restored. The unbelieving Jews perished in 70 AD when Roman destroyed Jerusalem. That is why Christ cried out: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. Why, in the end, will the unbelievers be lost? Why will they be destroyed? Because they were "good people" - they didn't need this God/man called Jesus Christ....And in the end God, being love, must abandon them - love dictates that He cannot force himself on those who persistently reject Him. Like the Jews they will be essentially saying, "His blood be on us and on our children!” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Quote: Robert said: The lesson here? Bragging on our righteousness negates Christ's vindication of us in Himself. Eventually, like Job, we will be left to defend ourselves before Satan's accusations. While I do believe, Robert, that you make many assumptions about God's thinking and motivations not readily revealed in consistent revelations of the Word, [:"red"] "Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. " [/] 1 Corinthians 2:11 NASB I also believe that what you refer to above is revealed to be true. [:"red"] "For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." [/] Luke 14:11 NASB It seems to me necessary to be aware of the fact this Scriptural statement does not say this humbling is either to be avoided or is an indictment indicating the Father's condemnation. In fact this Scripture actually points out that humbling of one's self is actually a blessing. The opposite being true for one who exalts themself, identifying a process which God allows for the purpose of exalting the party misled by self-defense instead of trust in His care, or the humiliation which is sure to happen as a result of self-aggrandizement. I would also like to suggest that your comment, "Eventually, like Job, we will be left to defend ourselves before Satan's accusations", unless followed with the trailer thought "unless repented of", misleads people into believing they have no option such as Job was given benefit of and which reveals how far our Father is willing to go to assure we finally get it right. This opinion is not an attack against you, Robert, but an observation and revealing of how many of your posts have come across to me. I have seen in some, as opposed to many, anathemas hurled against those you believe to be self-righteous, seeming to indicate you yourself as above such evil, seemingly putting yourself above the normal cut of others, especially if they happen to be in a particular church you disavow. As I recall, this following Scripture puts us on footing equal in affect to all. [:"red"] "And the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as the person who has broken all of God's laws." [/] James 2:10 NLT Since this is a New Covenant counsel, it suggests even the law of Christ is here indicated. [:"red"] "Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ." [/] Gal 6:2 NASB Keep the faith! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 I praise God knew what He was doing when He lifted Job up to Satan. God knew what Satan would do. God was in some way egging him on. God knew that Job needed to see what was under all those layers of Job's heart. and Job fleed to GOD amen! Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Quote: Gay4JESUS said: I praise God knew what He was doing when He lifted Job up to Satan. God knew what Satan would do. God was in some way egging him on. God knew that Job needed to see what was under all those layers of Job's heart. and Job fleed to GOD amen! Amen! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Quote: LifeHiscost said: I would also like to suggest that your comment, "Eventually, like Job, we will be left to defend ourselves before Satan's accusations", unless followed with the trailer thought "unless repented of", misleads people into believing they have no option such as Job... No...you always have the option of repenting.... Apparently Job had a persistent problem. I was self-righteous and legalistic for many years, but God never abandoned me. He put people in my life to open my eyes....Now if I would have rejected the message sent to me by God, eventually God would have been forced to "back off" as He did with Job.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Quote: Robert said: No...you always have the option of repenting.... [:"red"] "Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled; that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with many tears." [/] Heb 12:14-17 NASB Keep the faith! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.