Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted August 10, 2013 Moderators Share Posted August 10, 2013 Collegedale, TN, a conservative SDA Town. Yet, two elected SDAs have propelled this community into national news. What do you think about Katie Lamb & Larry Hanson? How about Wolf Jedomski, pastor of the Collegedale SDA Church, or the cited member of the religion department? See: http://www.atoday.org/article/2007/news/...ame-sex-couples Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Separation of church and state! SDA's have long taught and believed this....simply time to practice what we preach! Hmmm...I lived in Collegedale in the lates 60's and early 70's, even then the faculty were divided on what classify as conservative and liberal. There was a large mix of SDA and non SDA in the community also. I am not so sure it could be classified as an SDA city, would need to see the church preference break down. Strong Baptist area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Quote: What do you think about Katie Lamb & Larry Hanson? How about Wolf Jedomski, pastor of the Collegedale SDA Church, or the cited member of the religion department? Their decisions reveal a Master beyond human wisdom. While not denying the sure outcome of practicing unhealthy behavior, referred by some as "sinful", God makes every effort to lead His children home while there is still time to follow His lead. Soon all our choices will be set in stone, without recourse. "But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much."Matthew 5:44-46 NLT "Then he instructed me, “Do not seal up the prophetic words in this book, for the time is near. Let the one who is doing harm continue to do harm; let the one who is vile continue to be vile; let the one who is righteous continue to live righteously; let the one who is holy continue to be holy.” “Look, I am coming soon, bringing my reward with me to repay all people according to their deeds."Rev 22:10-12 NLT God cares! Have a Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Waite Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Collegedale, TN, a conservative SDA Town. Yet, two elected SDAs have propelled this community into national news. What do you think about Katie Lamb & Larry Hanson? How about Wolf Jedomski, pastor of the Collegedale SDA Church, or the cited member of the religion department? See: http://www.atoday.org/article/2007/news/...ame-sex-couples Quote grw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted August 10, 2013 Administrators Share Posted August 10, 2013 Emphasis on what they did. Neither compromised his own practice. Neither Joseph nor Daniel insisted that the government/ruler/people that they served must follow their God. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Hansen's logic is not Biblical, at least not from my point of view. Quote: Taking a somewhat different approach, Hanson relies on biblical teaching to guide him through controversial issues such as this; however, the verse he attempts to honor (Micah 6:8) speaks to broad values rather than specific policies or issues. “What the Lord wants you to be is just, merciful, and humble. That’s my goal,” Hanson explains. “Why penalize someone when they’re born a certain way? … These people suffer enough, just give them a break.” From 1966 to 1999 Hanson taught mathematics at SAU and also chairing the mathematics department for many years, according to the city's website. Will he do the same for someone who is born with a pathological temper who kills someone in a fit of rage? Why punish them for who they were born to be for they suffer enough, is the answer he will give if he stays logically consistent. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted August 10, 2013 Administrators Share Posted August 10, 2013 Love your enemies. Go the second mile. Give not only what is asked of you, but more. What does it mean to show mercy? Did Jesus help only those who were perfectly good Jews? Did he not say to be perfect like the Father who brings rain to the just and the unjust alike? I have a very hard time finding justification in the words and actions of Jesus for not treating gay couples with dignity and respect and seeing to it that their needs are cared for, needs which have absolutely nothing to do with being gay. Assuming they have children, would it be right to "punish" them for the sins of their parents? Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Love your enemies. Go the second mile. Give not only what is asked of you, but more. What does it mean to show mercy? Did Jesus help only those who were perfectly good Jews? Did he not say to be perfect like the Father who brings rain to the just and the unjust alike? I have a very hard time finding justification in the words and actions of Jesus for not treating gay couples with dignity and respect and seeing to it that their needs are cared for, needs which have absolutely nothing to do with being gay. Assuming they have children, would it be right to "punish" them for the sins of their parents? Are the children of abusive parents punished for the sins of their parents? Yes, a thousand times, yes. They live their lives paying for the sins of their parents every day of their lives. Have you never read the 2nd commandment? Treating someone with dignity and respect does not mean accepting their behavior as OK. Do you accept the behavior of a theif as OK? Do you accept the behavior of a serial philanderer as OK? Do you accept the behavior of a liar as OK? Do you accept the behavior of a child abuser as OK? Do you accept the behavior of a murderer as OK? All these things are sin. All these behaviors are not OK. This is an area where separating the sin and the sinner is required. Accept the sinner, not the sin. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted August 11, 2013 Administrators Share Posted August 11, 2013 Three observations. Your comparisons are inapposite. Being gay is not a criminal offense, at least not in most jurisdictions. Suffering the consequences of criminal conduct done by choice, is very different from that of a status over which one has no choice. Second commandment!?!? Who is doing the "visiting of the sins on the children"? I think confusing ourselves with God is a violation of another commandment. Third, your last two paragraphs successfully argue the point for extending benefits as was done. Separating the sin from the sinner and recognizing that providing medical benefits is not about the sin, but showing loving kindness to the sinner. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windsor Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Three observations. Your comparisons are inapposite. Being gay is not a criminal offense, at least not in most jurisdictions. Suffering the consequences of criminal conduct done by choice, is very different from that of a status over which one has no choice. I wasn't aware that in the US one had no choice of who their spouse or "partner" was. Quote Remember Adventists Online? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted August 12, 2013 Author Moderators Share Posted August 12, 2013 Quote: I wasn't aware that in the US one had no choice of who their spouse or "partner" was. One does not have a choice as to their sexual orientation or their gender orientation. One may choose to be celebate. One my choose to marry or not to marry. If you are heterosexual, you did not make that choice. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted August 12, 2013 Administrators Share Posted August 12, 2013 The opposition to this isn't over choice of spouse, but Windsor I think you know that. It is the fact that they are homosexual. The same kind of opposition for the same reason happened where the rule/law was to allow benefits for households without regard to marital status, that included domestic partnerships, before same sex marriages or civil unions were allowed in any state. That opposition was because it treated homosexual couples the same as heterosexuals, even though the rule/law benefited unmarried non-homosexuals, including adult siblings sharing a house and resources, that were determined to be a household/family unit. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Hansen's logic is not Biblical, at least not from my point of view. Quote: Taking a somewhat different approach, Hanson relies on biblical teaching to guide him through controversial issues such as this; however, the verse he attempts to honor (Micah 6:8) speaks to broad values rather than specific policies or issues. “What the Lord wants you to be is just, merciful, and humble. That’s my goal,” Hanson explains. “Why penalize someone when they’re born a certain way? … These people suffer enough, just give them a break.” From 1966 to 1999 Hanson taught mathematics at SAU and also chairing the mathematics department for many years, according to the city's website. Will he do the same for someone who is born with a pathological temper who kills someone in a fit of rage? Why punish them for who they were born to be for they suffer enough, is the answer he will give if he stays logically consistent. Hansen is making an unsupported theological assumption - that they are born that way. The Bible says that we are all born selfish (John 3). The question is whether we will cultivate that carnal nature or kill it. Homosexuality, like adultery and lying will get a person killed. "For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God" (Romans 8:13-14). G Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Quote: Hansen is making an unsupported theological assumption - that they are born that way. The Bible says that we are all born selfish (John 3). The question is whether we will cultivate that carnal nature or kill it. Homosexuality, like adultery and lying will get a person killed. "For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God" (Romans 8:13-14). I just picked up on a news story on Yahoo this morning and found it has been concluded that atheists live longer than those of faith. No doubt the atheists will consider this to be a plus. I'm of the opinion God in His Wisdom and mercy is allowing the faithful to go to their rest early that they might be relieved from their weary load, and the atheists are being given added time to yield themselves to the God of Love for the privilege of receiving eternal bliss before it's too late. God cares! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Quote: I'm of the opinion God in His Wisdom and mercy is allowing the faithful to go to their rest early that they might be relieved from their weary load,.... The last time I checked the Bible, Christ said He would carry our load, so.......I will continue down that road and ask God for Maximum life!! Maybe Christians die sooner because of their working so hard at salvation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Textus Receptus Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Separation of church and state! SDA's have long taught and believed this....simply time to practice what we preach! Hmmm...I lived in Collegedale in the lates 60's and early 70's, even then the faculty were divided on what classify as conservative and liberal. There was a large mix of SDA and non SDA in the community also. I am not so sure it could be classified as an SDA city, would need to see the church preference break down. Strong Baptist area. Although I do strongly believe in the division of Church and State, as most SDA do, we also have a responsibility to ensure that are actions do not cause our brother or sisters to stumble. 1 Cor 8:13 reads "Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend." Although it has always been the foundations of this country not to craft public policy using the precepts found in biblical doctrine (within reason), we as Adventist have a higher standard to uphold. For instance, if we vote against our conscience and legitimize an action that is against our Christian beliefs, then inadvertently, we may be providing the false presumption that homosexuality is an accepted lifestyle in the eyes of God. It’s a catch-22. This is something that SDA who hold public office have to grapple with. Atleast I hope they would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 The last time I checked the Bible, Christ said He would carry our load, so.......I will continue down that road and ask God for Maximum life!! Maybe Christians die sooner because of their working so hard at salvation. Indubitably! At least those who haven't yet achieved that knowledge of Jesus' care and then working with the idea that salvation is a reward instead of a gift. God cares! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierrepaul Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Nothing unusual here. I presume that any SdAs entrusted with public administration would not oppose state benefits for sabbath breakers. Or do SdAs now consider homosexuality as a greater sin than sabbath breaking? Quote God never said "Thou shalt not think". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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