Bill Bennett is right though, isn't he?

[lazarus]

Whats all the fuss about? I'm sure alot of people would agree with what he said.

Bennett, on his radio show, "Morning in America," was answering a caller's question when he took issue with the hypothesis put forth in a recent book that one reason crime is down is that abortion is up.

"But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down," said Bennett, author of "The Book of Virtues."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050930/ap_on_re_us/bennett_race

[Taylor]

That would be a crime of such magnitude that any "benefit" you would get out of it would be non-important. Not to mention that there is equal "benefit" in aborting every white baby for the same reasons. Good grief! Are people really this biggoted? What an incredibly boring world this would be if everyone was white! (and I am white).

Sorry Lazarus...I know you were looking for someone to bite on this one and I can't resist. I can't help it. I throughly dislike ANY racial prejudice. There are criminals from every race (good grief...what do you know...Hitler was white)... What this world needs is Jesus.

Now I will get off my soap box, and walk away muttering about "where is this world coming to?"

And BTW, in general, I like what you have to say, Lazarus.

[there buster]

Of course, partial quotation is a great way to distort. Here's the whole quote:

Quote:

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But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down.

That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down.

[italics are the part you left out]

---

Bennett was referring to the theory published in Freakonomics, a left-wing book that claimed that abortion was a social good because it reduced crime. He was demonstrating that such a theory, even if correct, is morally reprehensible.

However, Bennett did not take into account that the book's author was not a Republican, and therefore could not be considered morally reprehensible by either the mainstream media or the self-appointed civil rights leaders such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

Demographically, it is true. Just as it would be if you aborted all male babies. Most crimes are committed by young males.The statistics are undeniable.

Why the statistics are as they are is another question. Some say it is mainly due to racial discrimination, some say for other reasons. But the facts are the facts.

It is also a fact that abortion pioneer Margaret Sanger favored the abortion of minority babies because of crime. There never seems to be any outrage about her.

[cricket]

Actually, if abortion is considered a crime, then the crime rate would go up!

[Taylor]

Good point.

[bevin]

If you wanted to decrease crime, you would invest a lot more in improving the lot of the poor.

It is poverity, not ethnicity, that leads to most crime.

At the other end of society, amongst the wealthy, it is greed and pride.

/Bevin

[Dr. Shane]

The assumption I have a problem with is that all or most blacks are criminals. That is at the heart of the issue about the comment.

I find that a member here leaving out this part of the quotation: "That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down." Is entirely irresponsible.

[Dr. Shane]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

It is poverity, not ethnicity, that leads to most crime.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

According to that, the poorest countries in the world must also be the most criminal countries and the poorest period of history would also be the most crime-filled period.

I believe the crime rate during the Great Depression in the US was lower than it is now. I believe there are many poor Islam and Asian countries that have a very low crime yet. I don't think there is much of a connection between crime and poverty. The connection is between crime and punishment. It all depends upon what a society will permit.

[Taylor]

Quote:

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Shane said:

The assumption I have a problem with is that all or most blacks are criminals. That is at the heart of the issue about the comment.

I find that leaving out this part of the quotation: "That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down." Is entirely irresponsible.

---

Ya Lazarus why did you leave the rest of the quote out? True...the quote still seriously bothers me but at least he said it would be impossible, rediculous, and morraly reprehensible... That does change the tone of what he was saying, at least a bit....

[Dr. Shane]

I don't think Brother Lazarus actually listened to the show. They were not talking about the crime rate, as he stated in his post. They were talking about Social Security and the fact that the some 30 million+ babies that were aborted would have been paying into it. From their they got into talking about the demographics of abortion and that lead into the quote that has stirred things up.

My concern is that many are just getting their information from idealogical blogs and the blogs are not giving complete information. It may be that Brother Lazarus did not quote it in context because he got it off a liberal, idealogical blog which didn't quote it in contect either. Big reason why we need to get our news from various sources and not bury our heads in a pile of idealogical sand.

[there buster]

Quote:

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It is poverity.. that leads to most crime.

At the other end of society, amongst the wealthy, it is greed and pride.

---

The statement is self-falsifying.

Poverty leads to crime--but not all poor people commit crimes.

Poverty leads to crime--but some wealthy people (hence without poverty)-- DO commit crimes.

So. . .poverty leads to crime, except when it doesn't.

I DO AGREE that ethnicity has nothing to do with crime.

[Amelia]

poverty can lead to crime

hunger can lead to crime

homelessness can lead to crime

drug addiction can lead to crime

gambling addiction can lead to crime

alcoholism can lead to crime

greed can lead to crime

coveting can lead to crime

mental disorders can lead to crime

So which of these are black? Which are white? Which are hispanic? Which are asian? Answer......all of them.

[Bravus]

Simplistic understanding of causal links is the whole problem here: it's not 'this leads to this' it's 'this complex of factors has the potential to lead to this'. So poverty, compounded with (and caused by) teenaged single parent families, abuse, drug abuse, and correlated with and somewhat caused by the complicated history of race relations in America, linked with geography and failing inner cities and infrastructure, and poor education, and language challenges... can lead to crime, or to a lifelong desparate struggle, or to death. Any analysis not including all of these factors and at least a dozen others is too simplistic to be of any value at all in thinking about the causes of crime.

[Amelia]

Im not sure, but did you just dis me? See, Im just a little bit simple.

[Bravus]

Nope, I was saying you were on the right track, definitely - but it's more complex than that, because all the factors you listed also tend to influence one another.

So does being black cause crime? No, but being black may well cause (in the sense that it determined where your grandparents could live) poverty, which might contribute to desperation, poor education, bad influences and a sense of having no future, which might cause trying drugs and getting hooked and then needing to score, and therefore mugging someone. There are choices at every one of these steps except someone's race and where they are born, but my point was that pretending there's a single, simple cause-effect trail is unfortunately over-simplifying.

PS You may be simple (which is a good thing) but you're never simplistic (which is a bad thing). Hugs....

[Derrell M]

Amelia,

Totally off subject. My kids love the picture. They say its a penguin with a cat's face and a dog's mouth. They think its totally cool.

[Amelia]

Friend,

Ooooo they are soooo close. It is a penguin body, cat head and mouth of a puma. I have some others and have been thinking of changing it for the winter.

Bravus,

{{{{{{Hugs}}}}}} Sometimes I just cant tell.LOL

[Dr. Shane]

What society is willing to tolerate has a huge impact on the crime rate. In the old west, men were hanged to death for killing just one person or for stealing a horse. In some eastern coutries, convicts are caned for vandelism. In some Islamic contries a hand is cut off one caught stealing.

The crime rate among blacks in the US was considerably lower before the civil rights movement. They were not any wealthier but the law was stricter. Religion plays a role too as blacks were more religious before the civil rights movement. That is why Rev. Jesse Jackson is known for saying, "We got free and foolish."

[Derrell M]

Quote:

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I have some others and have been thinking of changing it for the winter.

---

If it isn't equally outrageous, the kids will be very disappointed.

[lazarus]

Quote:

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I don't think Brother Lazarus actually listened to the show

---

Hey Shane, you know me so well. I gave up Sado-masachism (or is it the other one) some years ago.

Taylor said

Quote:

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Ya Lazarus why did you leave the rest of the quote out?

---

Taylor, Don't let Shane lead you astray.

There was one reason why I didn't post the whole quote. I like to keep my postings of articles, etc......SHORT (i'm not shouting just throwing my voice). On reflection it was Serendipitous.

Quote:

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Shane said:

My concern is that many are just getting their information from idealogical blogs and the blogs are not giving complete information. It may be that Brother Lazarus did not quote it in context because he got it off a liberal, idealogical blog which didn't quote it in contect either. Big reason why we need to get our news from various sources and not bury our heads in a pile of idealogical sand.

---

Shane are you OK?

Look at my original post. I got the story from Yahoo.com! Last time I checked Yahoo was not a liberal blogg! I did hear, however, that its owned by the chinese communist party!

If you bothered to look at the link it has the whole quote. Clearly, you were so keen to find idealogial fault that you didn't even read my post. My son would get a smacked bottom for that!....well he doesn't post but you know what I mean,

Talk about idealogial sand, my friend!!!!!!!!!

[Dr. Shane]

I did not follow the link in the original post however it is interesting that only a portion of the quote was pasted. That itself was quite misleading. It was a misrepresentation of what was said as it provided no context.

Bill Bennett was wrong in saying what he said as it seemed to indicate that all criminals are black. However that implication may have been unintentional. We all mispeak sometimes.

[Neil D]

Quote:

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Bill Bennett was wrong in saying what he said as it seemed to indicate that all criminals are black. However that implication may have been unintentional. We all mispeak sometimes.

---

I can give you that BB may have mispoke. Yeah, that is quite possible...However, why did he choose that illustration? There were litterally several other ways to make the same point....why did he use the race card? He doesn't say. And I am left with a big doubt on my mind.

[Dr. Shane]

Actually he was disagreeing with the caller. The caller was trying to make the case that the reason we have a Social Security crisis is because we have aborted so many babies. Bill Bennett came back by saying that in order for that to be true, all those babies would have to have been productive citizens and statistics show that many abortions are performed on single and poor women. So there is no reason to believe that they could have saved the Social Security system. His use of aborting blacks to reduce crime was a bad example - no doubt. Crime does tend to be highlighted in black neighborhoods and so many do believe blacks commit more crime than others. Gangster rappers also make themselves to be posters for the black community which doesn't help. I think it is wrong to go down that road as we only reinforce such sterotypes by doing so. Bill Bennet should acknowledge that and appoligize, in my opinion.

[lazarus]

Of course Bill Bennett was right. Logically, what he said makes sense. If you kill all the black babies you would lose a significant population over time and because there are less people therefore there is less crime.

I have to echo Neil D. What kind of sick, racist pig of a mind would think of such a disgusting analogy. Its all very revealing.

I getting out my Malcolm X speeches....

"Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it. "

"Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change"

[Paul Beach]

Margaret Gray responds:

Perhaps if one were to abort every single human on earth, and murder those who are currently alive, there would be no more crime at all.