joeb Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Originally Posted By: CoAspen Ah....hmmm......well....lets see....requires judgement on my part, so ain't going there!!! I do agree CoAspen about judging, but I believe the judging that is meant is the one about who goes to heaven or not, that's God's Judgement! I do believe that on many things we have to be able to judge. Do we not judge when assigned to jury duty? For me I believe, at least on the outward appearence, a good Christian is one that follows Jesus' example. If I'm not mistaken, the first Christian were called so because they followed Jesus Christ? I'm not certain, but do remember something to that effect! An example of judging, would be, some of the replys on this forum towards those that have indicated that they are not Christians, by those that claim to be Christians. I'm only addressing a sliver of your post here, pkrause. So a "good" Christian never makes any mistakes in how he represents Christ? Only "bad" Christians misrepresent Christ at any time? That seems to be your point here. Not sure, it's just how it comes across to me. Who is the judge of how a Christian represents Christ? Is the Christian responsible to his Master, or to other people, for how he represents his Master? Who is the fallible judge in this area? What I'm trying to get across here is that any Christian is to be judged by his Master alone. Who is to say whether the author of the story is writing from the attitude of a convicted conscience and doesn't like that or not? Is everything written always written honestly? And, who is to say whether or not the authors of the posts here that you don't like are not planting the seeds that are to be sprouted at a later time? Can you and I say what it is that will ultimately reach any individual? I'm sure I can't say what it is. I'm helpless in that department and I know it. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 If one were to say, "That person is following Christs example...", would we then say the person is a bad or good christian? We don't know the 'trend' of persons life or their relationship with Christ. Certainly we can see if a person, is at any moment, doing/saying/etc what we, as individuals, believe that Christ would do. I not so sure humans can make the statement if a person is a 'good or bad' Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted September 3, 2013 Members Share Posted September 3, 2013 So a "good" Christian never makes any mistakes in how he represents Christ? Only "bad" Christians misrepresent Christ at any time? That seems to be your point here. Not sure, it's just how it comes across to me.Not sure how you get that? I never said Christians don't make mistakes! or is that even possible? Originally Posted By: joeb Who is the judge of how a Christian represents Christ?I did mention "outward appearence?" That's as far as we can even judge or should judge another, but knowing that God see's the heart. Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted September 3, 2013 Members Share Posted September 3, 2013 If one were to say, "That person is following Christs example...", would we then say the person is a bad or good christian? We don't know the 'trend' of persons life or their relationship with Christ. Certainly we can see if a person, is at any moment, doing/saying/etc what we, as individuals, believe that Christ would do. I not so sure humans can make the statement if a person is a 'good or bad' Christian. Good points Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Originally Posted By: joeb So a "good" Christian never makes any mistakes in how he represents Christ? Only "bad" Christians misrepresent Christ at any time? That seems to be your point here. Not sure, it's just how it comes across to me. Not sure how you get that? I never said Christians don't make mistakes! or is that even possible? Originally Posted By: joeb Who is the judge of how a Christian represents Christ? I did mention "outward appearence?" That's as far as we can even judge or should judge another, but knowing that God see's the heart. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted September 3, 2013 Moderators Share Posted September 3, 2013 I think we can agree that the story in the OP is an example of bad - or, at the very least, ineffective - Christian witnessing. Better to talk about that than about 'bad Christians' - I take the point. (I also think the writer of the piece was looking for a pithy headline more than strict accuracy.) Part of the problem with the whole 'witnessing thing' is that it's too easy to shift the blame. If witnessing is ineffective, just write off those who were ineffectively witnessed to as having made their choice... Don't subject the witnessing itself to any scrutiny. I still reckon Mrs White had it right: "The strongest argument in favor of the gospel is a loving and lovable Christian." Help in Daily Living, p. 2. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted September 3, 2013 Moderators Share Posted September 3, 2013 (and while 'loving' can be twisted around into 'tough love' and 'because I love you I have to threaten you with damnation', 'lovable' is tougher to get around...) Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Originally Posted By: CoAspen Ah....hmmm......well....lets see....requires judgement on my part, so ain't going there!!! I do agree CoAspen about judging, but I believe the judging that is meant is the one about who goes to heaven or not, that's God's Judgement! I do believe that on many things we have to be able to judge. Do we not judge when assigned to jury duty? For me I believe, at least on the outward appearence, a good Christian is one that follows Jesus' example. If I'm not mistaken, the first Christian were called so because they followed Jesus Christ? I'm not certain, but do remember something to that effect! An example of judging, would be, some of the replys on this forum towards those that have indicated that they are not Christians, by those that claim to be Christians. 1) Two kinds of judgement. Condemnation. Discernment. Use a lot of the second type. 2) The Word of God judges iniquity and unbelief (John 12:48). Its verdict is that both will not be in the Kingdom. rejoice always, `G Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted September 4, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 4, 2013 i really really like this observation about being lovable as really vital, and not so easy to get around it. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Quote: 1) Two kinds of judgement. Condemnation. Discernment. Use a lot of the second type. 2) The Word of God judges iniquity and unbelief (John 12:48). Its verdict is that both will not be in the Kingdom. rejoice always, The first and second conclusions are unacceptable to some as others thought of them first and so they are not original thoughts. The third, though unnumbered, must have some reason for dismissing it as it's found in the Holy Bible. And it is important to remember that everyone has a right to go where there god/God is going to take them. "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also." John 14:3 NKJV And because Jesus doesn't like this below to happen, the previous promise is given freely to any that are humble enough to ask Him for it. "For wherever there is jealousy (envy) and contention (rivalry and selfish ambition), there will also be confusion (unrest, disharmony, rebellion) and all sorts of evil and vile practices."James 3:16 AMP God cares! "" Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A. Wintsmith Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 To MT Cross who asked, some months back the following: Curious..... have you since learned to talk to people of other world views and beliefs with respect and in a meaningful way? (p.s. No matter how I word that question it comes off snotty. That is not my intention. I don't know you and have only read a handful of your posts, so it is a sincere question.) MT Cross, Your question doesn't come off snotty. I think the answer is yes. Since those days my own world view has changed, and I no longer hold the view that there is only one correct religion. Since I don't go into the conversation with the idea that I have a belief that is more correct than theirs, the conversation's entire dynamic is changed. Now the challenge is to interact respectfully with those who think their beliefs are more correct than mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 It helps to start out on the right premise. Quote: When bad Christians happen to good people "So He(Jesus) said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”"Matthew 19:17 NKJV parenthesis mine LHC God cares! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 "For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone" (Psalm 86:10). YES Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Quote: Now the challenge is to interact respectfully with those who think their beliefs are more correct than mine. Not sure that this below fits into your belief system. "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."Acts 4:11-12 KJV "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”"John 8:32 NKJV "Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." John 14:6 NASB God cares! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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