Felix Florimon Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 A very sad end for a gun owner advocate after he turned 107 year-old: (CNN) -- A man who police said was 107 years old was killed in a confrontation with SWAT officers Saturday night. Police were called to a home in Pine Bluff, Arkansas, where suspect Monroe Isadore was. "When they arrived, they were able to determine that an aggravated assault had occurred against two people at the residence," Lt. David E. Price, a Pine Bluff police spokesman, said in a statement. The two victims were led out of the house. It was not clear what role the suspect had in the aggravated assaults or what they were. When officers approached a bedroom where Isadore was hiding, he fired through the door, authorities said. None of the police officers was hit by the gunfire. They retreated to a safer area and called for additional help, including SWAT officers who started negotiations with the suspect. SWAT officers slipped a camera into the room where Isadore was holed up and saw he was armed with a handgun, Price said. After unsuccessful negotiations, officers slipped gas into the room through a window, he said, and Isadore fired rounds at them. The officers broke the bedroom door and hurled in a distraction device, and Isadore fired at them again, according to the spokesman's statement. Officers returned fire, killing him. It's unclear what distraction device was used. No more information was immediately available. CNN called the police department, but could not reach anyone. In 2010, there were about 53,000 people over age 100 in the United States, according to the latest Census numbers. Only 8% of them were older than 104. http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/08/justice/arkansas-107-year-old-man-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 FF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 This is a clear case of excessive force and abuse of power. The man did not need to die. When I saw this posted yesterday, it bothered me on so many levels, I do not even know where to begin. There are so many points which really do stink about this situation. First, why did he pull his weapon on the other two? It does very much appear these two were agitating or threatening him somehow, and he responded to protect what was his. He was wanting these two to leave him/what is his alone. If he was murderous, there would have been two dead bodies awaiting police - but the fact these two were brought out of the house unharmed underscores the point he had no malicious intentions toward his agitants nor toward the police who responded. It matters not why these two were there, or what they were trying to persuade this man to do. They put him into a situation where he felt threatened enough in his own house of residence to pull a pistol on them. By all rights, they should have left him alone and left. Mr. Isadore was then left alone in his own house, in his bedroom. His door was closed - not barricaded. Nothing more was needed to do, except to wait out this man until he fell asleep if they really felt the need to apprehend this gentleman. The SWAT team did in fact insert a camera into Mr. Isadore's window and had full surveillance on him. That footage should be made available under FOI (Freedom of Information). All that was needed was to play a waiting game. But wait! These zealous police officers re-entered the house before the situation could cool. If the man was indeed trying to protect what was his, and was rattled by whatever issue the two original people there posed to him, what kind of response did these police think they were going to get? That he might well be thinking these police were only going to enforce what he thought was intolerable enough to pull a gun to defend against in the first place. It very much appears no effort was made to defuse that part of the situation. Calling in the SWAT team, with its shiny military-grade toys, was a complete overkill. Instead of buying the department these things and training these men to use such excessive force, those monies would have been better spent on conflict negotiation and resolution techniques. However, they have the toys, so they want to use them. A lone 107 yr old man in his own bedroom requires a military grade response from police? It would seem Pine Bluff's police SOP rules of engagement could use some oversight and modification. The "distraction device" is written in other articles as either tear gas (unlikely, as this could be lethal in an enclosed room) or a flash-bang grenade (most likely). So--some 20 burly SWAT team members in full body armor with assault rifles and "distraction devices" swept in against a lone 107 year old scared man armed with only a pistol. Must make for great bragging rights around the Pine Bluff precinct stations. After all, their target was such an intimidating figure he could shake off the effects of their flash-bang grenades and still shoot... Reading the comments sections of where this event is written, the thoughts are ~95-5 against this action taken, with many of them declaring this another case of murder by government. These instances are becoming more widespread. Sad...and frightening...at the same time. I know - some will justify the police's perspective on this, but think on this for a moment - it is this kind of mentality the Remnant faces one day soon: excessive force by the government, for the crime of wanting to be left alone. If Mr. Isadore could tell his tale....but, the dead cannot speak, can they? There are no blessings in this one, only tears... Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 There are a number of possiblities as to the mental status of this man.....and the man doesn't have to react in a logical nor rational mannor.... ....and yet, this man has a gun....Just how much hunting is this man going to do??? ....do you really think that a 107 year old man is rational enough to have a gun? We have hearing tests on this board and there are 40-50 year olds with professed hearing damage....how much is a 107 year old man going to hear??? Yes, there are more questions here than answers....but we all agree, that the loss of life was the greatest of tragedies... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Hunting? Really, Neil? With a personal protection pistol? With all the information out there concerning the issue, your stated ignorance of what the second amendment pertains to should shock a person, but as you have demonstrated your penchant to fully support the State over the rights of the individual on other threads, it comes as no real surprise. Put simply, the authors of the Bill of Rights didn't have sporting clays, exhibition and target shooting, and hunting in mind when they penned the second amendment - it was criminals and government tyranny and overreach (like this prime example). This is clearly evident in reading both the Federalist Papers, the companion Anti-Federalist Papers, and the transcripts of many public addresses by those who formed this nation. But read that article again. Go search out the topic over several sites. You will find quite a bit of muddled reporting on the police response and tactics, but a couple of things remain firm: one, the man was rational enough to think the removal of his antagonists from his own house was enough to warrant not using his weapon. Even when this man fired his weapon, he never drew down and fired it directly upon the being of any person in a situation where he clearly could have if desired. No one was hurt by the man's actions. The event has the appearance of an antagonized, frightened old man just wanting to be left alone, and was feebly protecting himself and his possessions in his own bedroom. Is that irrational for a 107 yr old man? He was rational enough to be able to live at his own house, with little (if any) oversight. There are many today 40 years his junior who can't make that claim. How rational does one have to be to desire to be left alone, and to protect one's self and property? A more relevant question would be - just how long does one think this 107 yr old can maintain being awake for extended periods of time? How many people here can function well after going all night without sleep? Does this get better, or worse, as we age? It was ONLY when police re-entered his house in an antagonistic manner that trouble began. As the reports do clearly show, they had the man under camera surveillance; time was on their side. That is a second common thread I have seen in each reporting. Waiting him out was the best tactic; it is tragic these police chose to display such distaste for peaceful, non-violent solutions. Impatient, trigger-happy, and deeming the value and dignity of this old man as beneath proper treatment...these describe the attending officers quite well. After that, facts on the police response are jumbled, but go from bad to worse. Some list a flash bang as a distraction device; some say Mr. Isadore's room was pumped full of gas. Some report failed negotiations after 4 hours; others report just a couple hours between initial contact to final resolution. All indicate a desire to resolve this quickly by force, when the man was posing no danger to the public. I am glad we can at least agree this loss of life was tragic... Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Ted... come OOOnnnn.... don't you know a rhetorical remark when you see at least 3 question marks at the end of a sentence??? That's the answer that I would get from from YOUR side [i know, it's a stupid answer on the pro gun position ] but it is the answer I get when I ask why a 107 year old man has a gun.... The bulk of my arguement is on the state of mind the man is in....Can you vouch for his clear thinking? I doubt it....The man is 107 and has a gun and is shooting it...That is the summation of what is going on in a policeman's mind...many men at 107 are confused. They know this and so does the medical field....so now we have a confused man whose aim is not good because he can't hit what he's supposed to be aiming at...And anyone who has drawn his gun is assummed to be shooting to kill...Why or how come is secondary...primary goal is to relieve the man of his gun.... I guess we really did have to pry it from his cold dead hands.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Ted... come OOOnnnn.... don't you know a rhetorical remark when you see at least 3 question marks at the end of a sentence??? That's the answer that I would get from from YOUR side [i know, it's a stupid answer on the pro gun position ] but it is the answer I get when I ask why a 107 year old man has a gun.... The bulk of my arguement is on the state of mind the man is in....Can you vouch for his clear thinking? I doubt it....The man is 107 and has a gun and is shooting it...That is the summation of what is going on in a policeman's mind...many men at 107 are confused. They know this and so does the medical field....so now we have a confused man whose aim is not good because he can't hit what he's supposed to be aiming at...And anyone who has drawn his gun is assummed to be shooting to kill...Why or how come is secondary...primary goal is to relieve the man of his gun.... I guess we really did have to pry it from his cold dead hands.... Rhetorical recognition went out the window years ago, Neil, when the Left decided that anything a conservative had to offer was either too stupid or too evil to consider. What would be the answer? A hunting/sporting usage excuse? Hmmm...you don't know me very well. I caught the bulk of the argument, Neil. The trouble with that argument is that it presumes fault and a negativity. Perhaps I am just too optimistic for such a perspective You ask if I can vouch for his clear thinking? I can no more vouch for clear thinking than you can for confused thinking. You must presume such a thing based on...statistics. And that's the issue - you want to place him within a bell curve, when you really don't have evidence one way or another. There is evidence of rationaL thinking in the way he reacted in the presence of the two people and the police at the first. Now let me ask this question: how do you know the mental condition of the officers involved weren't high on adrenaline, eager to carry out the isolate-and-destroy training these SWAT team members receive? I would argue that the mental condition of the police to be just as clouded as you suggest the deceased man's was. Yet...no one questions that. Now, I will take it a step farther. Let's DO assume he was completely confused and irrational. What is the best solution for resolving the situation, in which risk to life with all parties is minimal? As he was demonstrating the willingness to shoot ONLY when his house was entered...it would be to stay out of the house, keep him under surveillance, wait until the adrenaline stopped flowing, and let exhaustion claim him into sleep. Indeed, it was foolish to send in the troops (who could have been shot) against a man displaying no public danger to anyone outside his room, killing him in the process. I guess I am simply one of those many who agreed with those replying in the comments sections, who are deeply disturbed at this level of police response, on the heals of a 72 year old Fort Worth man getting shot while investigating suspicious noises outside his own home (how dare he!), the Long Beach man shot by police while watering his neighbor's lawn, and several such instances over the last year. People playing "I Spy" on the neighbors they have no interest in getting to know, coupled with an over-zealous and over-militarized, bad attitude police force, is leading to these kinds of incidents more and more. Sad..and it should be frightening. Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted September 9, 2013 Members Share Posted September 9, 2013 Rhetorical recognition went out the window years ago, Neil, when the Left decided that anything a conservative had to offer was either too stupid or too evil to consider.Ding, ding, ding, ding! Sounds very familiar, rhetorical recognition went out the window years ago, for me too! When I heard the same from the supposed "right," words I really dislike (right and left garbage), was either too stupid or too evil to consider anything thing else! Either people are for guns or against, and left and right has nothing to do with it. Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Here is the thing, and Ted and Neil you should both maybe focus on this instead of your political posturing against each other. A man is dead. A 107 year old man. Its really freakin stupid. Its stupid the police did not show some more maturity and common sense. Its stupid that a 107 year old man had a gun. Its stupid that anyone thinks they can make a totally informed opinion based on a news story that has lines like this in it "It was not clear what role the suspect had in the aggravated assaults or what they were." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted September 9, 2013 Members Share Posted September 9, 2013 Here is the thing, and Ted and Neil you should both maybe focus on this instead of your political posturing against each other. A man is dead. A 107 year old man. Its really freakin stupid. Its stupid the police did not show some more maturity and common sense. Its stupid that a 107 year old man had a gun. Its stupid that anyone thinks they can make a totally informed opinion based on a news story that has lines like this in it "It was not clear what role the suspect had in the aggravated assaults or what they were." Exactly MT! And I agree the cops needed to show a little more sense, but the problem as I see it, unless we are cops, we have no idea of the anxeity(sp) that facing someone with a weapon causes. People just don't seem to be themselves when a gun is in another persons hand. Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Originally Posted By: M. T. Cross Here is the thing, and Ted and Neil you should both maybe focus on this instead of your political posturing against each other. A man is dead. A 107 year old man. Its really freakin stupid. Its stupid the police did not show some more maturity and common sense. Its stupid that a 107 year old man had a gun. Its stupid that anyone thinks they can make a totally informed opinion based on a news story that has lines like this in it "It was not clear what role the suspect had in the aggravated assaults or what they were." Exactly MT! And I agree the cops needed to show a little more sense, but the problem as I see it, unless we are cops, we have no idea of the anxeity(sp) that facing someone with a weapon causes. People just don't seem to be themselves when a gun is in another persons hand. Very true, simply a tragic event all around, one that was avoidable and will likely leave everyone involved messed up in the end (though not as much as the dead fella) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Rhetorical recognition went out the window years ago, Neil, when the Left decided that anything a conservative had to offer was either too stupid or too evil to consider. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Here is the thing, and Ted and Neil you should both maybe focus on this instead of your political posturing against each other. A man is dead. A 107 year old man. Its really freakin stupid. Its stupid the police did not show some more maturity and common sense. Its stupid that a 107 year old man had a gun. Its stupid that anyone thinks they can make a totally informed opinion based on a news story that has lines like this in it "It was not clear what role the suspect had in the aggravated assaults or what they were." I think that's what I did with the first post - deplore the stupidity of the situation. I guess I wasn't clear enough... Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Yup you did, but then it all slid and I just really wanted to bring the focus back to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 From the title of this thread, I thought it was going to be about the blind people that were getting guns. Quote For what will a man be profited, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his soul? Mat. 16:26Please, support the JDRF and help find a cure for Type 1 Diabetes. Please, support the March of Dimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Liz, you mean Iowa's new law permitting the blind to get guns? Depends on the definition of "blind" one uses. Some are legally "blind", yet can still see - they are incapable of focusing at all clearly without strong prescriptive eyeglasses. I could make a case for that class not having their basic self-defense rights being stripped away just because of the impact the word, "blind" carries with it. If, on the other hand, one uses the definition of incapability of any visual discernment (i.e., no visual input actually reaching the visual center of the brain), then as a gun nut myself, I can say that's pretty silly. One of the foremost rules of shooting is visual target identification - whether in a hunting or a self-defense situation. This class of the blind cannot do this, and here I make the case where we are our brother's keeper and must be willing to be their defense against the criminal and the tyrant. Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted September 10, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 10, 2013 I agree Ted, and i also deeply appreciate your quote on the offense of the cross. and i am sharing it. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I agree Ted, and i also deeply appreciate your quote on the offense of the cross. and i am sharing it. Thanks, Debby. I encourage sharing that quote with everyone you can. Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted September 10, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 10, 2013 Quote: HEY ALL BACK ON TOPIC dgrimm60 ok cops get excited and anxiety runs high in any kind of gun scene or chase scene. and often in physical fights with citizens, whenever they are resisted they seem to go into hyper drive to violently stop the resistance. too often people needlessly die when resisting police authority. this is nothing new, and it is always a commentary on the vulnerability of people to be able to carefully handle authority clearly and decisively and also with wisdom and mercy. it seems at times they have only like one tool in their repertoire. i suppose we just don't hear about all the stories of cops handling things in a way that diffuses tension and it has a good ending. to think about it, i am sure this is true. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Ted, I know and I agree. It's just that when they say "blind" only one term usually comes to people's minds. The one where they are so visually impaired that they can only discern light from dark, if that. And it just kind of sounds funny--blind people being issued guns, what could possibly go wrong? Quote For what will a man be profited, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his soul? Mat. 16:26Please, support the JDRF and help find a cure for Type 1 Diabetes. Please, support the March of Dimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted September 10, 2013 Moderators Share Posted September 10, 2013 I'm not sure why this is a big deal. It's because he's 107 of course but He wasn't defenseless, unarmed. He fired at police on two separate occasions. This happens all the time. People are shot and killed by police all the time. I guess if he had been if had been 17 it would have been OK. Puzzled. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I'm not sure why this is a big deal. It's because he's 107 of course but He wasn't defenseless, unarmed. He fired at police on two separate occasions. This happens all the time. People are shot and killed by police all the time. I guess if he had been if had been 17 it would have been OK. Puzzled. Or perhaps this 107 yr old had circled back around the house, attacked an officer and put him on the ground, then began pounding the officer's head on the concrete and flail away with MMA style punches, it would have been OK? I figured you'd get around to Trayvon sooner or later... Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted September 10, 2013 Moderators Share Posted September 10, 2013 Or perhaps this 107 yr old had circled back around the house, attacked an officer and put him on the ground, then began pounding the officer's head on the concrete and flail away with MMA style punches, it would have been OK? I figured you'd get around to Trayvon sooner or later... Lol, dude you're projecting. I picked 17 because of 107. Happy accident. There are countless stories of people who shoot at police and are killed by police. So whats the big deal. It must be because he was an old man. It's reasonable to expect a police officer to fire back when fired upon. Martin wasn't killed by police, wasn't armed etc. Don't see the connection. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted September 11, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 11, 2013 in these situations why don't they just have a gun to shoot those things that drug somebody, like they do wild animals in town. every cop could have a little tranquilizer gun in their possession for such occasions. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Originally Posted By: Ted Oplinger Or perhaps this 107 yr old had circled back around the house, attacked an officer and put him on the ground, then began pounding the officer's head on the concrete and flail away with MMA style punches, it would have been OK? I figured you'd get around to Trayvon sooner or later... Lol, dude you're projecting. I picked 17 because of 107. Happy accident. There are countless stories of people who shoot at police and are killed by police. So whats the big deal. It must be because he was an old man. It's reasonable to expect a police officer to fire back when fired upon. Martin wasn't killed by police, wasn't armed etc. Don't see the connection. Hmmm....projecting? Maybe...and maybe not. Picking 17 just for dropping the zero? As much emotional capital as you put into that verdict, Laz, it might just more on your mind than you think...just sayin'. The connection is in the outrage at what one sees as an unjustified ending of life. Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 in these situations why don't they just have a gun to shoot those things that drug somebody, like they do wild animals in town. every cop could have a little tranquilizer gun in their possession for such occasions. That would be nice, Debby, except animals don't sue when the dosage is inadvertently wrong. Unfortunately, people can - and do - act worse than animals...on both sides of the badge. Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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