Neil D Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 in these situations why don't they just have a gun to shoot those things that drug somebody, like they do wild animals in town. every cop could have a little tranquilizer gun in their possession for such occasions. They do...they're called "Tazors" and they involve getting close to someone, who, apparently in this case, they couldn't do..... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 But Tasers aren't fool-proof - they were used as lethal force in three separate incidents in recent months, Neil. Police incident 1 Police incident 2 Even this one shows the police used tasers against a big, bulky, trained bodyguard (as opposed to a frail 107 yr old man) and it STILL killed him... Bodyguard tased to death after break-in A blurb in the first link states the police there "aren't trained to AVOID excessive force"...so (for at least 1 department), it is a training and mentality issue regarding usage of force - whether it is grappling, or usage of Tasers...or firearms. Wouldn't that be a correct assessment, Neil? Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 But Tasers aren't fool-proof - they were used as lethal force in three separate incidents in recent months, Neil. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Originally Posted By: Ted Oplinger But Tasers aren't fool-proof - they were used as lethal force in three separate incidents in recent months, Neil. I didn't say that Tasers were "fool proof"...What I said was that the use of tasers were used in place of medicine injected darts...nothing else is implied. And to be honest, even darts would have these same "outlier statistics" because of variables...Do you have the right medicine dose for the weight of the perp? Usually, you are given a range for dosage and in tense situations where gun involvement is used, a good dose is a greater med to weight ratio....which provide greater risks to the life of the individual...ie, cessation of breathing, cardiac arrhythmia, anaphylaxis,choking, ["I want this guy down NOW and I want him to STAY DOWN"] The size of the perp is indicative of greater med dose. [Are you sure it's a football sized guy and not a petite woman shooting at you?]..Risks would include under dosing....too much dosing and risking of life...sensitivities and allergies ...ok, he's a big guy, but allergic to the stuff that you are giving him resulting in a increased risk of life....you gave a normal or lower dose, but because he's sensitive to the stuff, he just went into anaphylaxis... Quote: A blurb in the first link states the police there "aren't trained to AVOID excessive force"...so (for at least 1 department), it is a training and mentality issue regarding usage of force - whether it is grappling, or usage of Tasers...or firearms. Wouldn't that be a correct assessment, Neil? So, Ted, honestly...what do you think I'm trying to say here? I get the impression that you think that I believe that Tasers are the best thing to incapacitate someone...I never said that...I did reply to Debs post in regard to dosing someone to incapacity that the instrument used is a taser...I never said anything about how well it was used, but rather that it was used in favor of drugs.... Honestly, Neil - the "But tasers aren't fool-proof..." comment was not an implication you said they were fool-proof; this was merely a commentary that tasers have been shown to be just as problematic in usage as an attempt to incorporate tranquilizers into the police response would be. The gist I get from Debby's comment was the desire to achieve a more humane way of taking down the perp without having to resort to overwhelming destructive/lethal force - a point which I know we both concur on as well. Never did imply that you said anything, nor did I attribute to you words you didn't say. I just stated it's just as problematic as tranquilizing, gave why I believe so, then asked if you would agree with the assessment - in friendly dialogue. Just between us, I think I'm living rent-free in your mind when you begin to reply to a post of mine... Blessings, brother Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Honestly, Neil - the "But tasers aren't fool-proof..." comment was not an implication you said they were fool-proof; this was merely a commentary that tasers have been shown to be just as problematic in usage as an attempt to incorporate tranquilizers into the police response would be. The gist I get from Debby's comment was the desire to achieve a more humane way of taking down the perp without having to resort to overwhelming destructive/lethal force - a point which I know we both concur on as well. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted September 11, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 11, 2013 the potential for projecting, and reading into, even when we are here friendly and seeking full and frank discussion, and still bumps in the road can arise, so when there is a threatening situation and real force being used and played with, and things can escalate and go awry and bring needless death. this is about our all too human condition, and yes there needs to be checks and balancing, training is really important for cops to help them when everything becomes unpredictable. To protect them and others when fears escalate to life and death actions. bottom line people are vulnerable and liable to errors at the baseline. it is just goes with the territory of being human, so we need God. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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