Can the Church End Poverty?

[phkrause]

World Vision will host a prayer vigil with their partners to pray for a bolder political influence at the United Nations General Assembly Wednesday, Sept. 5th in New York City in the fight against global poverty. Other faith-based organizations will join WV to acknowledge the progress since the birth of the Millennium Development Goals 13 years ago and to review goals for the post-2015 agenda.

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Home-Pag..._term=yahoo.com

[phkrause]

Obviously not!!!!!

[olger]

[Tom Wetmore]

But does that mean we should quit trying or do nothing?

[Textus Receptus]

Global poverty will never be eradicated. The bible clearly notes that pestilence and famines will only increase. We as Adventist should be more concerned with providing the 'true' bread, of course being Jesus, than aiding in a futile cause of which we have no control.

I will be the first to admit that this seems harsh, but it is the reality. That said, I will never turn down someone who is hungry. I just believe that many churches are distracted and seemed to have become a theology based on "needs" rather than the gospel. Dr. Walter Veith did a wonderful expose on this topic but can't remember the exact name of the lecture.

[JoeMo]

Ending poverty is a great "world vision"; but my read of God's word is that it will only happen at Jesus' second coming. Jesus tells us that the poor will always be with us. Daniel, Matthew 24, and Revelation all tell us of increasing war, famine, pestilence, and persecution in the last days. All of these are either the result of or result in increased worldwide poverty.

Does this mean we should stop trying to bless others? Absolutely not!

[Gail]

Good one, JoeMo. Just because we won't be able to conquer the problem doesn't mean we shouldn't show them mercy, like with sickness, etc.

[lazarus]

Global poverty will never be eradicated. The bible clearly notes that pestilence and famines will only increase. We as Adventist should be more concerned with providing the 'true' bread, of course being Jesus, than aiding in a futile cause of which we have no control.

.

Ellen White has a different position.

Its really a question of effectiveness and compassion. The reason why so many churches are ineffective is becasue they are more concerned with spiritual bread rather than literal bread and they lack compassion. They feel they are just called to preach. Jesus healed etc becasue he was "moved with compassion'. Compassion and action for hungry people is as spiritual as preaching the Sabbath.

Here is EGW:

Christ ministered to people's needs before inviting them to follow Him.--Christ's method alone will give true success in reaching the people. The Saviour mingled with men as one who desired their good. He showed His sympathy for them, ministered to their needs, and won their confidence. Then He bade them, "Follow Me." MH 143

The church cannot end sin but it seeks to draw people away from sin and point them to Jesus. We will not give up the cause of the gospel because we cannot solve the problem of sini. Obedience to God's word compels the church to challenge sin. Obedience to God compels us to meet peoples need and seek to bring God's kingdom to this earth.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

Global poverty will never be eradicated. The bible clearly notes that pestilence and famines will only increase. We as Adventist should be more concerned with providing the 'true' bread, of course being Jesus, than aiding in a futile cause of which we have no control.

I would suggest that such an idea would indicate a person is not familiar with the work and words of Christ.

[phkrause]

Excellent post Lazarus

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Does this mean we should stop trying to bless others?

Reminds me of the story of a man watching a boy walking along the beach, tossing starfish from the drying beach back into the ocean where they would be safe from the sun. The man questioned the boy re: why he was wasting his time, did he not realize there were thousands of starfish on the beach and throwing one into the water wouldn't make any difference.

The boy reached down, picked another one up and proceeded to sail it back into the foamy brine, then replying to the well meaning gentleman, "To that one it does."

God cares!

[Textus Receptus]

I am of the opinion, that when we live in a world where we can't tell the cops from the robbers, it is best not to confederate. I am not sure if the World Council of Churches are involved, but I can assume they are if they are petitioning the United Nation, both of which, I do not hold in high regard.

I am of the opinion that the SDA should remain separate in all of spiritual endevours or we run the risk of promoting agendas that are not throughly in line with the 3 angels agenda.

[Tom Wetmore]

... I am of the opinion that the SDA should remain separate in all of spiritual endevours or we run the risk of promoting agendas that are not throughly in line with the 3 angels agenda.

In speaking of the importance of the message of the 58th chapter of Isaiah, EGW is quite clear that this sort of work is very much "in line with the 3 angels agenda."

Quote:

If the work of the third angel's message is carried on in right lines, the ministry will not be given an inferior place, nor will the poor and sick be neglected. In His word God has united these two lines of work, and no man should divorce them. {6T 289.4}

Quote:

Those who stand as reformers, bearing the banner of the third angel's message, are the ones who are to draw out the soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul. They are to do the work of Christ with hearts full of compassion for the widow and the orphan. But how strangely has this work been neglected! Other denominations have provided homes for the homeless; why were we not, years ago, planning to care for these needy ones whom Christ has committed to us, and whom he declares to be representatives of himself? Why have our people been so slow to hear the earnest appeals for help? The grief and affliction of the widow and orphan should be our grief. Why have not the hearts of those who should be to them messengers of mercy, been stirred to relieve distress, to impart sympathy and consolation and counsel to those who hunger for it? Those who close their ears to the cries of the needy, will one day call, and the Lord will be deaf to their pleadings. But to those who exercise the tenderness and love of Jesus toward the poor and unfortunate, to those who are not eaten up with selfishness, whose souls are drawn out in pity and grief for the woes of others, the promise is given, "Thou shalt call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am [What will you have? What shall I do for you?]." The Lord has help all ready for those whose compassion is exercised toward the oppressed and the sorrowing. Our God is gracious, full of compassion and tender pity. Let us be like him. Those who are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb will, through the spirit given them by God, do all in their power to comfort the broken-hearted and the tempted, to relieve the oppressed, and to accomplish the work Christ has left them to do. {HM, July 1, 1891 par. 13}

[Textus Receptus]

But are you sure that 'all' of the agenices involved do not have an ulterior motive? I would venture a guess and say no. No one can be sure.

Again, it is not the cause I have an issue with, but the methods in relation to the unforseen agendas that are not 'advertised'.

[CoAspen]

We can live in 'fear' or simply continue with the 'work' Christ asked of us! Take care of those in need! No discrimination, no judging as to corectness of need, but to be our brothers keeper. Christ was rather plain about that.

[Gail]

But are you sure that 'all' of the agenices involved do not have an ulterior motive? I would venture a guess and say no. No one can be sure.

Again, it is not the cause I have an issue with, but the methods in relation to the unforseen agendas that are not 'advertised'.

You mean like withholding the tithe if you feel that it is being misappropriated by a Conference?

If you do not know all the facts, I'm not seeing that as a reason to stop the giving attitude. There is a Bible principle about "lending to the Lord," that he who give to the poor gives to the Lord or something like that. God knows the heart of the giver. The widow was not chastised for submitting her 2 mites because the priests of the day were not godly.

[Tom Wetmore]

But are you sure that 'all' of the agenices involved do not have an ulterior motive? I would venture a guess and say no. No one can be sure.

Again, it is not the cause I have an issue with, but the methods in relation to the unforseen agendas that are not 'advertised'.

Why so suspicious? It seems to me that our own motives are more important and we really shouldn't be so worried about whether others might have "ulterior motives". That just seems more an excuse to avoid becoming involved rather than a legitimate concern, IMHO.

On your concern about fearing becoming involved with other faiths in their work to end poverty or other social agenda issues, I think EGW also makes a point on that. A significant social issue of her day was temperance. There was a whole temperance movement apart from what Adventists were doing. While EGW cautioned against being associated with those that may not be compatible with our own approach, she was very explicit in saying that we should join with Christians from other churches and to work "shoulder to shoulder" with them in the temperance movement and that we could do so without compromising our own faith. I think the same principle is very much applicable today when it comes to addressing the important social issues that confront us today, such as poverty.

[olger]

Social Justice is the new charity, and...

Taxes is the new tithe.

Avoid this deceptive trend, Brethren.

And rejoice always!

`g

[CoAspen]

Social Justice is the new charity, and...

Taxes is the new tithe.

Avoid this deceptive trend, Brethren.

And rejoice always!

`g

Following your advice would mean rejecting Christ...is that what you are really after.....??

[Tom Wetmore]

The thousands of children that will die from poverty related causes tonight while you sleep will be happy for you to offer your politically motivated and inappropriately insensitive excuses over their unmarked graves.

[Gail]

Social Justice is the new charity, and...

Taxes is the new tithe.

Avoid this deceptive trend, Brethren.

Of all the things that a government can be accused of, I would think that providing provision for the poor is one of the more desirable.

[Tom Wetmore]

... and of all the uses of taxes, what better use than to help feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, provide clean water for the thirsty in a dry land.

[Gail]

I do have a question-

For those who do not support affordable health care, who DOES help those who cannot afford to get health care? The church? How many families can one church take on? The article says that 1/5 of Americans cannot afford health insurance.

Holding health maintenance courses can be one way to help. But if a lower-income person needs a heart operation, what happens? Who will pitch in the price of a home to help one person?

I remember one American that I talked to on the phone who told me that he did NOT want to pay for someone else's health care. Although he didn't say this, I think he was trying to say that paying for his was expense enough.

[Gail]

When I commented I was thinking I was in the other thread, but this fits here, too.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

I remember one American that I talked to on the phone who told me that he did NOT want to pay for someone else's health care.

That is understandable, however none of us completely pay for all of the services that are required for daily living. By having a 'pool' of monies, we all pay less. For the christian, me thinks the response may not accurately reflect what Christ has asked of us who claim to believe in Him.