ObamaCare vs. the Affordable Care Act

[olger]

My brother closed his business after many highly successful years. Many of his employees had been with them a number of years.They had insurance coverage,paid holidays,401K,paid vacations,life insurance.Paid on a weekly basis. He survived many lean years,worked many 80 hour weeks to make this a success,his employees of course worked 40.

He did not close his business on a whim,misinformation,or dislike of the current administration. He simply was not willing to work longer for less to survive the current regulations.

The permanent-employee, non-calloused, city-slicker, pro-liberal entitlement types will never understand what you just wrote here, Bonnie.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

The permanent-employee, non-calloused, city-slicker, pro-liberal entitlement types will never understand......

Oh....Oh....from the drama queen!

[olger]

Quote:

The permanent-employee, non-calloused, city-slicker, pro-liberal entitlement types will never understand......

Oh....Oh....from the drama queen!

If I said this about Coasp - Tommy would be deleting posts and lecturing about civility.

My goal is to be bigger than that.

Psalm 34:12-15.

Rejoice always,

`oG

[Naomi]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

My brother closed his business after many highly successful years. Many of his employees had been with them a number of years.They had insurance coverage,paid holidays,401K,paid vacations,life insurance.Paid on a weekly basis. He survived many lean years,worked many 80 hour weeks to make this a success,his employees of course worked 40.

He did not close his business on a whim,misinformation,or dislike of the current administration. He simply was not willing to work longer for less to survive the current regulations.

The permanent-employee, non-calloused, city-slicker, pro-liberal entitlement types will never understand what you just wrote here, Bonnie.

Yup!

[Naomi]

Quote:

Psalm 34:12-15

very apropos

[bonnie]

The permanent-employee, non-calloused, city-slicker, pro-liberal entitlement types will never understand what you just wrote here, Bonnie.

I am sure you are right. It is ludicrous for a few select individuals to claim to know what is in the Affordable care Act

and that a successful business owner would cut of his nose to spite his face.

A business that is run based on who the president is at any given time isn't going to have to worry about closing down.

His business practice and just plain stupidity will take that decision out of his hands.

There isn't any doubt that some will benefit,just as many benefit from welfare. When they are promised federal subsidies to help pay for their premiums,maybe that should be changed to "don't worry, federal subsidies means your fellow citizens that are working and scrambling to pay their own will now offer more help for you to pay yours"

If changing the wording from Obamacare to Affordable Care Act has such a noticeable effect,think what changing federal subsidies to "we are taking it from the taxpayer" might do

[Ted Oplinger]

The bottom line to its opposition has nothing to do with the substance. It is all political. The simple fact that almost everyone here that is opposed cannot even discuss its specific provisions and can only resort to broadside political attacks demonstrates that. It is only because Obama's name is attached to it that it gets stiff opposition. Let's not forget this whole thing was passed by a Republican controlled Congress.

[Bravus]

Quote:

The permanent-employee, non-calloused, city-slicker, pro-liberal entitlement types will never understand what you just wrote here, Bonnie.

I've worked minimum-wage jobs in a lumberyard, cleaning factories, washing dishes in a hospital kitchen, as a builder's labourer, cleaning boilers, in a food factory, picking fruit...

It's precisely *because* I've had the calluses and sore backs that I care about what happens to those working in those industries now.

VVV

[bonnie]

Imagine retaining an attorney to make sure you understood the contract you were about to sign. I have done so in the past Had that educated legal professional told me that he didn't know what was in the contract and wanted me to sign it so I could find out he would have been dismissed with some not so polite words and without pay.

That is exactly what is suggested and endorsed here and by the political party in power.

Somehow the word exploit has come to include an employer that chooses not to keep a business running for less pay and more headaches.

What word would you use for an employee that quits to go elsewhere that may promise him something more?

[olger]

Tom, I'd like to see your proof the ACA was passed by a Republican-controlled Congress. In truth, the act this mess is based upon originated in a Democrat controlled Senate, with Harry Reid as Senate Majority Leader, then sent to the House in a vote where not a single Republican voted in favor. The Democrat-controlled House, with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House, made some adjustments to the bill, then passed it on Christmas Eve, 2009, against an American body politic which opposed the process and opposed this law in the first place, and without a single Republican voting for it. It was then "deemed passed" by the Democrat controlled Senate in the very late hours of the night Christmas Eve, and sent to Obama's desk for signing.

Spot on brother.

Rejoice in the Lord always !!

`oG

[Windsor]

At the end of the day, Obama hates us. He is the one that has shutdown the National Mall for no other reason than to tick people off. It has required more employees and more effort and hence more money to keep people away from these monuments during the government shutdown. Barriers have been set up to block veterans from being able to see that which requires no expenditure to see not to mention the ordinary citizens visiting to honor veterans and are the great men of our country's history. There's a reason that the states right movement is growing. Our country is far too important to leave in the hands of petty politicians in Washington. We can start by moving the national parks to state control.

On another note, always be wary of any law being proposed with the word "affordable", "fairness" or the like. There's a very good chance that it actually promotes the opposite of what it says. A lot of voters have seen that word "affordable" and have blindly supported it thinking the government could magically make things cheaper.

[Stan]

>>>>> Obama hates us.

REALLY?

[phkrause]

So I'm guessing you have signed up now?? Because, my insurance has gone down with better overall benefits. Also got a lot of litature(sp) in the mail for different plans, that could lower my costs a little more.

[CoAspen]

>>>>> Obama hates us.

REALLY?

Sounds like another thread has degenerated into the politics morass!!

(maybe that is why EGW told people to be careful about getting into politics, they start

losing the 'common sense'! )

[CoAspen]

Quote:

I've worked minimum-wage jobs in a lumberyard, cleaning factories, washing dishes in a hospital kitchen, as a builder's labourer, cleaning boilers, in a food factory, picking fruit...

It's precisely *because* I've had the calluses and sore backs that I care about what happens to those working in those industries now.

Yup, been there, done that..just different jobs.

[CoAspen]

Got to go and find some big tall waders...lets see where are they...hasn't been that long....an they ain't for water!!

[bonnie]

I've worked minimum-wage jobs in a lumberyard, cleaning factories, washing dishes in a hospital kitchen, as a builder's labourer, cleaning boilers, in a food factory, picking fruit...

It's precisely *because* I've had the calluses and sore backs that I care about what happens to those working in those industries now.

VVV

Most of us have worked those or very similar jobs,sometimes two and three as my husband did.Big deal,that is the way we all start out without experience or a trade.

Employment is not a lifetime commitment. Obviously as a employee,you did not commit to a lifetime to your employer.

Employer's have an obligation to provide safe working conditions

and whatever has been agreed on for hourly wage and benefits,end of story. If they decide it is no longer worth the risk,hours,and responsibility to continue,that is their right.

[Tom Wetmore]

Quote:

I've worked minimum-wage jobs in a lumberyard, cleaning factories, washing dishes in a hospital kitchen, as a builder's labourer, cleaning boilers, in a food factory, picking fruit...

It's precisely *because* I've had the calluses and sore backs that I care about what happens to those working in those industries now.

Yup, been there, done that..just different jobs.

Yep, me too. I suspect I have worked at more kinds of such menial low paying jobs than the one making the broadside that started this little exchange. Janitor, factory worker, farm worker, chicken catcher, food service, painter/handyman, security guard, night watch, hospital orderly, pharmacy technician, lawn care....

[Tom Wetmore]

Tom, I'd like to see your proof the ACA was passed by a Republican-controlled Congress. In truth, the act this mess is based upon originated in a Democrat controlled Senate, with Harry Reid as Senate Majority Leader, then sent to the House in a vote where not a single Republican voted in favor. The Democrat-controlled House, with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House, made some adjustments to the bill, then passed it on Christmas Eve, 2009, against an American body politic which opposed the process and opposed this law in the first place, and without a single Republican voting for it. It was then "deemed passed" by the Democrat controlled Senate in the very late hours of the night Christmas Eve, and sent to Obama's desk for signing.

You are correct. My mistake. 2009 Democrats had a thin majority in both chambers.

Care to admit your mistakes?

[bonnie]

Yup, been there, done that..just different jobs.

Yep, me too. I suspect I have worked at more kinds of such menial low paying jobs than the one making the broadside that started this little exchange. Janitor, factory worker, farm worker, chicken catcher, food service, painter/handyman, security guard, night watch, hospital orderly, pharmacy technician, lawn care....

Not sure who you are referring to,but if that was directed at me,you have nothing to base that suspicion on.

I started working at age 12,I am now 68 and still working 6 days a week.

My first job was picking field corn,5 cents a short row and 10 cents a long row.I also was responsible for my younger brother,he came with me and played with his trucks in between the rows.

So what,didn't hurt me a bit,in fact taught me a lot. It paid for my clothes and extras I needed. If I did not want to continue to spend my life doing that it was up to me,not my employer to change that

None of this has anything to do with the response that a employer that makes the decision to close down a business because of the current climate didn't deserve that business anyway. Almost everyone I know could list same or very similar jobs while working towards their education. Doesn't make you unique or an abused employee. Nor does it give anyone the right to demand a lifetime commitment from an employer

[olger]

>>>>> Obama hates us.

REALLY?

Not you sir. You're a furriner.

[olger]

Quote:

The permanent-employee, non-calloused, city-slicker, pro-liberal entitlement types will never understand what you just wrote here, Bonnie.

I've worked minimum-wage jobs in a lumberyard, cleaning factories, washing dishes in a hospital kitchen, as a builder's labourer, cleaning boilers, in a food factory, picking fruit...

Righto.

As suspected, I don't see "successful business owner" anywhere in there.

`oG

[bonnie]

Righto.

As suspected, I don't see "successful business owner" anywhere in there.

`oG

It seems that some think a successful business owner wakes up that way. They work the same menial jobs as those that stay in those menial jobs.

Generally they know both sides of the story. But if they do not pay what they determine is an high wage for a non skill job they become something to be condemned.

Successful business owners generally have begun their working career in menial job.But unlike those that have done the same they do not feel abused by the employer

[olger]

Yeah right.

They don't see the hard winters -- pawning your prize shotgun that grandpa gave you -- just to pay the electric bill etc.

But we believed in our business and dumped all of our ambition and dreams into it and made it successful. Hard work and sacrifice are the order of the day to anyone who starts a successful business. Along the way you will grow in ways that you didn't imagine and find fulfillment in solving other people's problems.

Rejoice always,

`oG

[Tom Wetmore]

Missing the point by apparently overlooking the point Bravus made the observation about jobs he had done and that CoAspen and I echoed -

precisely *because* I've had the calluses and sore backs that I care about what happens to those working in those industries now.

You seem to mistakenly assume that your own experience as a business owner is the only path to wisdom and understanding of thes issues. I don't doubt it gives you a great deal of experiential knowledge and wisdom in running your business. But it is a perspective that is far from comprehensive and does not qualify you to do many other things, or even run many other types of businesses. And it really doesn't qualify you to denigrate others experience and knowledge and resulting opinions as less valid or inferior.

But since you seem to have some narrow perspective of what it takes to have sufficient business accuman to measure up to your idea of what it takes to have a valid opinion of the issues at hand let me share what you very likely do not know about me. This is not meant to brag or to play a "mine is bigger and better than yours" sort of game. It is simple to give you some perspective. Beyond what you think you know about me by my better known professional experience through my full time day job as a lawyer for the Church, I am also the chairman of the board of an employer not associated with the Church with about six hundred employees and over $40 million in gross revenue a year and asset book value of about $60 million.

Not sure how that measures up to your "successful business" standard for being qualified to have a clue about these things, but I think my experience and perspective counts for something.