Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted October 19, 2013 Members Share Posted October 19, 2013 I was just reading and came across a text....then found a quote from A.W. Tozer that rather expands upon it. I sometimes think that Adventists (and probably lots of members in other denominations, as well), start to get so fixated on their *church,* that they forget what's really important... Gen 35: 7 He built an altar there, and called the place El-bethel, because there God had revealed Himself to him "Always God must be first -- and we ought never forget that the church was never intended to be a substitute for God! What is our primary interest? Is it Beth-el (House of God) or El-Beth-el (God of the House of God)? Is it my church or my Lord? Is it my creed or my Christ?" A.W. Tozer Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted October 19, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 19, 2013 Tozer... I'm interested in learning more about him and his work Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Excellent question........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 A way to find out how important church is to the people: Schedule a board meeting the same time as the funeral of one of the member's loved ones. See which members attend the business meeting instead of the funeral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted October 19, 2013 Members Share Posted October 19, 2013 I that a lot. Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Quote: Is it my creed or my Christ?" Seems a good question. "“Have the people of Israel build me a holy sanctuary so I can live among them."Exodus 25:8 NLT True, many "Christians" of today have no relationship with the God of Creation and wouldn't give a whit whether they could meet with Him at an appointed place and time anyway, so it is easy to see why ignoring His presence there is the predominant reasoning of today. Another victory for the prince of darkness but so soon coming to an end. "....casting all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you. Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world."1 Peter 5:7-9 NASB God cares! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted October 20, 2013 Moderators Share Posted October 20, 2013 If the Church is the body of Christ, it must be extremely important. The problem comes when we forget who the Head is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua- Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 There have been times when I felt personally convicted not to go to Church, but instead to worship and study at home. Ultimately, a person doesn't need a church of any sort to worship God. That being said, God reveals light to people so that they may reflect light onto others, and purposefully isolating ones self for whatever reason is certainly going to lead to spiritual loss eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted October 20, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 20, 2013 If the Church is the body of Christ, it must be extremely important. The problem comes when we forget who the Head is. Amen Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted October 20, 2013 Moderators Share Posted October 20, 2013 That being said, God reveals light to people so that they may reflect light onto others, and purposefully isolating ones self for whatever reason is certainly going to lead to spiritual loss eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted October 20, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 20, 2013 ........................ That being said, God reveals light to people so that they may reflect light onto others, and purposefully isolating ones self for whatever reason is certainly going to lead to spiritual loss eventually. What happens to the branch when it is separated from the vine? John 15 Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 The problem is when we see Christ as the head of the Church and then use that as an excuse to dimiss any of His chosen leadership we don't like. You know, like what happened to Moses, Joshua, Caleb, just about every prophet who ever lived. Like we do today with the Church Board we don't like, the Head Elder, the Pastor, the Conference, the General Conference. ANYBODY that gets in OUR way, we just dismiss their authority, because you know, Christ is the Head. So, I don't have to pay attention or even respect anyone else. When Sister White didn't have direct light, she submitted to the counsel of the brethren. Jesus blessed the widow and her two mites because He, like her, loved the Church of His time. Jesus directed the woman at the well not to the "scrolls" (the bible) but to the Church! Paul was directed to the CHURCH to learn of Him before he started his Ministry. The Church, Gods chosen vessel, His people, as defective as they are, remain THE method He will employ to reach this dieing world until He comes. There will not be another group raised up, this is it, the last authorized Church. And hearing this, many never walked with Him again. They could not see how it was possible they could submit to those proud, mistaken, corrupt Jewish leaders who comprised the Church of His day. We hear the same arguments today from many who refuse to submit to Church authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 That being said, God reveals light to people so that they may reflect light onto others, and purposefully isolating ones self for whatever reason is certainly going to lead to spiritual loss eventually. Not particularly!!! That is YOUR opinion and nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 The problem is when we see Christ as the head of the Church and then use that as an excuse to dimiss any of His chosen leadership we don't like. You know, like what happened to Moses, Joshua, Caleb, just about every prophet who ever lived. Like we do today with the Church Board we don't like, the Head Elder, the Pastor, the Conference, the General Conference. ANYBODY that gets in OUR way, we just dismiss their authority, because you know, Christ is the Head. So, I don't have to pay attention or even respect anyone else. When Sister White didn't have direct light, she submitted to the counsel of the brethren. Jesus blessed the widow and her two mites because He, like her, loved the Church of His time. Jesus directed the woman at the well not to the "scrolls" (the bible) but to the Church! Paul was directed to the CHURCH to learn of Him before he started his Ministry. The Church, Gods chosen vessel, His people, as defective as they are, remain THE method He will employ to reach this dieing world until He comes. There will not be another group raised up, this is it, the last authorized Church. And hearing this, many never walked with Him again. They could not see how it was possible they could submit to those proud, mistaken, corrupt Jewish leaders who comprised the Church of His day. We hear the same arguments today from many who refuse to submit to Church authority. Guess what? The hierarchy of the church is made up of HUMANS and they are not perfect, and that darn well includes pastors and people that work in the conference. So far, every SDA pastor I have met has proven himself to be a LIAR and a user. They are human, but that does not give them the right to run rough-shod over others just because of their position. I am sick to death of the people who use God, religion, their church or any number of religious things as an excuse for expectation of submission without questioning or saying what one believes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted October 20, 2013 Members Share Posted October 20, 2013 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo If the Church is the body of Christ, it must be extremely important. The problem comes when we forget who the Head is. Amen Amen Amen Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Originally Posted By: Joshua- That being said, God reveals light to people so that they may reflect light onto others, and purposefully isolating ones self for whatever reason is certainly going to lead to spiritual loss eventually. Not particularly!!! That is YOUR opinion and nothing else. And just maybe the reason a person may isolate themself for a period of time is because they are being led by God for some one on one. Lets not be so quick to make emphatic statements that are not supportable. We are so quick to define for others what they need to do without any regard for their spiritual experience with God!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Guess what? The hierarchy of the church is made up of HUMANS and they are not perfect, and that darn well includes pastors and people that work in the conference. So far, every SDA pastor I have met has proven himself to be a LIAR and a user. They are human, but that does not give them the right to run rough-shod over others just because of their position. I am sick to death of the people who use God, religion, their church or any number of religious things as an excuse for expectation of submission without questioning or saying what one believes. Just quoting because it bears repeating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted October 20, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 20, 2013 Cricket & OW There are many factors involved in decisions ... I know not all of your reasons for how you feel ... nor, do I need to know! However, I regret that you feel so bitter towards all denomination workers. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Quote: I regret that you feel so bitter towards all denomination workers. A presumption. Has it been stated? I have not read that or been able to infer that from their posts. Perhaps it all in our perception? One person talks about the ones they have meet....they other person..I don't know where that idea comes from. Unless we walk in an other persons shoes and know them as God does...perhaps....we should just.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Caution alert, the internet graemmaer police warning has been activated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted October 21, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 21, 2013 Quote: I regret that you feel so bitter towards all denomination workers. A presumption. Has it been stated? I have not read that or been able to infer that from their posts. Perhaps it all in our perception? One person talks about the ones they have meet....they other person..I don't know where that idea comes from. Unless we walk in an other persons shoes and know them as God does...perhaps....we should just.......... Please excuse me .... Perhaps I misunderstood the meaning of OW's statement. Quote: Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman ............ Guess what? The hierarchy of the church is made up of HUMANS and they are not perfect, and that darn well includes pastors and people that work in the conference. So far, every SDA pastor I have met has proven himself to be a LIAR and a user. They are human, but that does not give them the right to run rough-shod over others just because of their position. I am sick to death of the people who use God, religion, their church or any number of religious things as an excuse for expectation of submission without questioning or saying what one believes. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 If you would like to say, "all that she met", you would be correct! However the way you worded it as "all" with out the qualifier, can be seen as the person condemning everyone with in the church, I did not read or hear the individual that way. Everyone deserves a fair chance..eh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted October 21, 2013 Author Members Share Posted October 21, 2013 I've learned to take what people say/write with a healthy dose of caution and skepticism - that includes church workers, healthcare workers, and insurance workers ....it keeps me from a lot of grief and stress... (but to tell the truth, I've only met one pastor who was unscrupulous....he and I disliked each other from the get-go at church... he's no longer a pastor... which is a good thing) Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted October 21, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 21, 2013 Yeah, it happens, no doubt about that. I am thankful that I haven't had to cross with any of those. I cannot think of any pastor I have had that fits that category- there are many good ones in the mix! But my feeling is that the members are the church and I tend to bond with members rather than depend on the pastor. His job is complex enough as it is and I for one don't envy him. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted October 21, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 21, 2013 One pastor who I found extremely diplomatic and a leader who respected everyone was Larry Hall. I found him to be gifted in heading church board meetings and was an able speaker as well as able to connect with his congregants. He is worth mentioning publicly. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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