Repent!

[Gail]

In my reading the Bible through I am into Jeremiah now.

The one word that strikes me about the book so far is, REPENT!

We don't hear tell about the idea of repenting that much these days. But it is a very Biblical concept. To repent is to turn and walk a different direction.

If God is leading us to repentance, shouldn't we talk about it more? Why or why not?

I'd love to discuss this topic a bit.

[Kevin H]

Wish I was not so tired, I'd love to write some things here! Their is evidence that the final editing of a book that Moses started, Deuteronomy, and the Deuteronomic history was edited together during the time of Jeremiah. That while historically there was more evangelism going on during the conquest than killing, that the emphases on the wars and killing were part of Jeremiah's message of repentance. Warning that if they don't repent then like how the Hebrews came and conquered the wicked inhabitants, so will the Babylonians come to destroy you if you become the new wicked inhabitants.

It might be wise to read the Deuteronimic history as Jeremiah's conflict of the ages series, with the book Jeremiah being his testimonies to the church.

Another interesting point, as you study the curses in the Deuteronomic history, most, if not all, of them end up falling of Jeremiah. He was the high priest of the disgraced house of Eli, the High Priest of the cursed Northern Tribes etc. The history shows how people have turned God's blessings into curses, yet how God can turn curses into blessings. For example, the curse on the house of Eli that no old man will be in that family. That family produced more prophets than any other family and prophets have a tendency of not living to become old men.

[Gail]

If a person, a family, a nation- is wicked and heading toward disaster, why WOULDN'T they want to repent? Israel's people were lying, stealing, murdering, committing adultery and burning incense to other gods. Then they went to church! Jer. 7:9-11

What is it about people that makes them want stay wicked?

[Gail]

Kevin, why don't you sleep on it, then come back tomorrow afternoon and write some more?

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

What is it about people that makes them want stay wicked?

I'm sure you are aware we are born with the nature Adam inherited when he yielded to the serpent. Freedom only comes to us when we are delivered from the blindness that results from slavery to the prince of darkness. And repentance does not come from gritting our teeth and trying really hard to be good, rather when we accept the yoke Jesus gives us when we receive the gift of repentance offered by Him.

"“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”"Matthew 11:28-30 NASB

"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.”"

Acts 5:30-32 NASB

God cares!

[fccool]

In my reading the Bible through I am into Jeremiah now.

The one word that strikes me about the book so far is, REPENT!

We don't hear tell about the idea of repenting that much these days. But it is a very Biblical concept. To repent is to turn and walk a different direction.

If God is leading us to repentance, shouldn't we talk about it more? Why or why not?

I'd love to discuss this topic a bit.

It's very easy to read a book and then say that it applies to everyone universally the same way. In Jeremiah, the call for repent was a very specific one.

The reason why "repentance" is not being talked about much these days is because "repent" is an antiquated religious word. We don't use the word sacrifice much either, outside of the sports context.

In terms of the translating the word appropriately, it doesn't mean to "turn and walk in different direction". That's not what the word means. In hebrew, the word means "to return regretfully". The concept of going back to something with regret of certain action is central idea of Hebrew repentance.

In NT you have a different idea of "repentance", and it's a much healthier one IMO. The word "repent" in NT greek is - metanoia. It has mostly to do with changing how you think, instead of feeling guilty, and trying not to do things again.

The cycle of guilt is a well-known phenomenon in addiction psychology. Certain actions make you feel good, you feel guilty doing those things, which makes you feel terrible. So, the only escape from feeling terrible seems to be going back to feeling good... which is the action that makes you afterwards feel terrible. And on and on we go.

Christian fundamentalism has created more porn and sex addicts than pornography industry ever could, mainly because they don't understand the psychology of addiction.

What you should do is stop "repenting", and start thinking better. Repentance is an empty promise, if a person lacks self-control and adequate knowledge of himself and the environment to maintain the promise of "I will not do it again". That's why people progressive preachers will usually emphasize positive change that will replace the negative behavior, instead of giving "you are so terrible, and you need to repent" types of talks.

Likewise, repentance exaggerates the real problems, and it makes mountains out of molehills. For example, a homosexual tendency may be present in someone, and due to certain "Christian dogmatic theology" it may drive one to a brink of suicide, or feelings of extreme inadequacy and self-loathing. In reality, "homosexuality" part of a person is such a small and insignificant part when compared to the totality of their being and behavior, and yet it's worthy of a separate LABEL in all caps.

The point being, what defines a person is not something they do occasionally. A person, in a moment of weakness may look at porn. It doesn't define them as a "pervert" who constantly lusts for women. Even in the extreme cases of someone being so desperate or angry that one kills or hurts another person, may not define the rest of their behavior and thought patterns as such.

The evil people that OT is talking about are not like the ordinary people you will meet in the daily walk. They are ones who are killing, and will keep on killing if the situation permits. They are the ones that are stealing, and will keep on stealing if the situation permits. They will always lie, if the situation benefits them.

That's the concept of "Biblical evil". Telling ordinary people to repent of things that they already recognize as wrong, and do it only on occasion in moment of mental lapses or personal weakness... is not what the word "repent" is used for in Jeremiah.

[Stan]

Wait til you hit the NT, it is all through it.YET, we seem to be without sin these days.

[ClubV12]

Guilt, it can be a good thing.

Special Forces have a saying, "Pain is your friend". It lets you know your alive, it lets you know you need to take action to stay that way, it motivates you.

Guilt lets me know, I need to take action, I'm bleeding, I'm hurt, I'm in trouble, fly to Jesus!

[Gail]

Repenting is a good thing, isn't it? Wouldn't you like people who murder or molest children or cheat to feel remorseful and want to change their ways?

And although I do agree that there is a guilt that is human-contrived that doesn't bring about change, I wouldn't want to do away with it totally. I see the presence of guilt as a sign that a person has a conscience.

[CoAspen]

Because of the 'abuse' of the word repent, it immediately turns people away from hearing the whole story. There is some truth to understanding context of the word usage as well. I think in the instance that you are reading about, the people had multiple times of being warned and then ignoring. It was being pointed out the destruction that could come if they did not repent/turn around.

I don't believe it is being ignored today, but being said in a different way. Speaking of within the christian community.

[Gibs]

I believe if we are growing more and more into sanctification we keep coming up to things we need to repent of.

Full sanctification don't happen in a few moments but to a very, very few if any.

The Lord only knows when ones heart and mind and soul is fully surrendered and then as His Spirit comes to them of a short coming that one will repent of it.

[fccool]

Quote:

Repenting is a good thing, isn't it?

It depends how you use the term. If you are repenting of something that's clearly harmful to people around you and yourself, and you continually doing it... it's certainly a good thing.

I don't think I've implied that it's a bad thing. I merely implied that there are better words to describe the process than a blanket statement that's applied the same way to murderers, and to people who habitually overeat, or don't exercise. I think that "repent" is a bit too strong in the latter case.

Quote:

Wouldn't you like people who murder or molest children or cheat to feel remorseful and want to change their ways?

Sure, but the real question is how many murderers and child molesters do you have in your church, where the sermons on repentance should be preached.

Quote:

And although I do agree that there is a guilt that is human-contrived that doesn't bring about change, I wouldn't want to do away with it totally. I see the presence of guilt as a sign that a person has a conscience.

Guilt is merely an uncomfortable feeling of cognitive dissonance invoked by brain trying to reconcile certain concepts and beliefs.

For example, some people feel guilty eating meat. Why? Because they hold certain beliefs about animal life that run contrary to the idea of eating meat.

In that sense, guilt, is your brain telling you that your established beliefs are not in line with your actions.

Obviously, not all guilt is terrible. The question is whether guilt is the best motivation for changing one's behavior. How many people lost weight because they felt guilty of overeating and living unhealthy life? I think that they lost weight because they saw the benefit of having more energy, looking better, and having more confidence as a result.

That's what I'm trying to get to, really. If you are talking about murderers and child molesters, perhaps repentance is a better word and concept to use.

[ClubV12]

"What shall we do?" The first word of Peter's answer was, "Repent." Acts 2:37, 38

Pharoah repented. Judas repented. When that time comes for "every knee shall bow" all the sinners who ever lived will repent. What IS repentance then?

Must the sinner wait till he has repented before he can come to Jesus? Is repentance to be made an obstacle between the sinner and the Saviour?

[Gibs]

The Spirit of God draws on all to come to the throne of grace convicting us of sin and then repentance for it, then it is from sorrow of our sin we fall broken upon Him who only can save us.

[ClubV12]

The Bible does not teach that the sinner must repent before he can heed the invitation of Christ, "Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28. It is the virtue that goes forth from Christ, that leads to genuine repentance.

Note that word, "genuine", true repentance is a work of the heart. The repentance of Judas was forced from his lips as he beheld the terrible outcome of his deeds. It was not the repentance Jesus longs for us to experience.

[Gail]

Good thoughts- personally I am not against repenting even of smaller things.

[olger]

Amen.

I am reading Isaiah currently, and the message is the same.

Repentance precedes restoration.

[Ted Oplinger]

Amen.

I am reading Isaiah currently, and the message is the same.

Repentance precedes restoration.

But at what point does repentance enter the picture?

I will submit that the Bible shows clearly repentance does not come prior to being recipient of God's appeal, promises, and righteousness. I would maintain that repentance unto salvation is part and parcel part of the works God has prepared beforehand, that we should walk in (Ephesians 2:10). We are saved by grace through faith.

In Genesis 3, nowhere is it written that Adam and Eve repented prior to coming before God. It is, in fact, quite the other way around - God came looking for Adam and Eve, and Adam and Eve fled into hiding.

Adam and Eve were hardly repentant before God, either. They blamed everyone (including God) and everything BUT themselves for their sinful state. Yet God in verse 15 uttered the Promise of an unasked for Redeemer, and in verse 21 He covered them in the symbols of His righteousness. Then, He would allow time to unfold the power in His Word to bring forth the work of repentance.

God is still the same today, and He finds sinners (including us - see Revelation 3:14-22) are still the same today as well: He must treat every person the same way He had to treat Adam and Eve: appeal to them first, cover them next, then allow His Promise and His Word to bring into existence the repentance needed.

Repentance is every bit a gift from God as anything else associated with the Christian journey. It is to be revealed as an unfolding of God's power within the heart. The FACT repentance is manifest shews forth in the life is evidence God's power in His Word is at work.

Repentance is also not a once only pre-requisite thing happening at the beginning, but a life-long, ever-deepening experience which begins once we accept God's outreach to us (aka, coming out from behind the trees, being naked before God).

Food for thought...

[CoAspen]

[olger]

That fact the He accepts our repentance is predicated on two biblical principles.

1) That it is genuine (Matthew 3:8).

2) That we choose to humble ourselves (Psalm 51:17; Isaiah 57:15; 66:2).

Without His acceptance (mercy), and without our active choice to humble ourselves, there is no repentance.

Repent always

Rejoice always,

G

[olger]

"[17] From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near” (Matthew 4:17).

"Therefore this is what the LORD says: “If you repent, I will restore you that you may serve me; if you utter worthy, not worthless, words, you will be my spokesman" (Jeremiah 15:19).

Amen!

[joeb]

I would say that repentance, forgiveness, justification, sanctification, and the drawing power of God's love are so entwined that it is impossible to separate them in the life of the Christian.

God draws us by His love, through the work of the Holy Spirit on our hearts. We see that love and recognize that forgiveness and pardon(justification) is possible through repentance and trusting in the life and sacrifice of Jesus. But, we cannot separate repentance, justification, and sanctification either, for if we refuse sanctification we haven't really repented of our sins. We're still hanging onto them so we're not truly sorry for them, so we really haven't repented. We're still not reconciled to God.

To be reconciled to God we must experience all of it. There is no half way with God. He wants all of us, not part of us, for if all we give Him is part of us, we're still in league with the devil. We're still his agents. And that's what the devil wants because then he has agents on the inside of God's professed church.

[olger]

God good.

Flesh bad.

[M. T. Cross]

God good.

Flesh bad.

Oddly enough, by your theology, God created that flesh.

[CoAspen]

Originally Posted By: olger

God good.

Flesh bad.

Oddly enough, by your theology, God created that flesh.

Sorta like 'catch-22'!