Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 27, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 27, 2013 Sandra Roberts just elected as President of SECC. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted October 27, 2013 Members Share Posted October 27, 2013 sure hope everyone gives her their support! Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted October 27, 2013 Members Share Posted October 27, 2013 That's awesome Tom, and I agree Pam. Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 This will not end well. It's a direct challenge to the authority of the world Church. Other Conferences and Unions will soon follow. Every Church for themself... http://ordinationtruth.com/ Ted Wilson has instructed the Conference that she will not be recognized as President. I'll stand with the General Conference on this issue as they follow the Church Manual, bylaws and instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 This will not end well. It's a direct challenge to the authority of the world Church. Other Conferences and Unions will soon follow. Every Church for themself... http://ordinationtruth.com/ Ted Wilson has instructed the Conference that she will not be recognized as President. I'll stand with the General Conference on this issue as they follow the Church Manual, bylaws and instructions. Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted October 28, 2013 Moderators Share Posted October 28, 2013 Shaking! Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted October 28, 2013 Moderators Share Posted October 28, 2013 So.....the Bible supports a female Vice President but not a female Conference President. Clearly this is not about scripture but it is about policy and politricks. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 This will not end well. It's a direct challenge to the authority of the world Church. Other Conferences and Unions will soon follow. Every Church for themself... http://ordinationtruth.com/ Ted Wilson has instructed the Conference that she will not be recognized as President. I'll stand with the General Conference on this issue as they follow the Church Manual, bylaws and instructions. I'm with you CV12 Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Lazarus says, "...it is about policy and politricks." That is essentially correct Lazarus, it is about corporate policy, rules, laws at this point. The biblical principles involved are still within the study committee appointed to review the laws in question. Some folks don't want to wait for the report, so they are now in open defiance of the rules of the World Church. Rebellion or freedom fighters? Choose carefully who you support going forward. Spiritually speaking, this will be a life and death issue for some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Quote: Spiritually speaking, this will be a life and death issue for some. Hmmm........following the Holy Spirits guidance will keep a person safe, long as they are in continual contact with the God. That relationship is what everyone needs! It is not for us to judge another persons walk with God. Tis far better to belong inside the fold of Christs 'church'. No need for panic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Cochoa Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 This will not end well. It's a direct challenge to the authority of the world Church. Other Conferences and Unions will soon follow. Every Church for themself... http://ordinationtruth.com/ Ted Wilson has instructed the Conference that she will not be recognized as President. I'll stand with the General Conference on this issue as they follow the Church Manual, bylaws and instructions. I will also stand with the world church on this issue. This rebellion has been permitted to go too far already. Blessings, Green Cochoa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Jeannieb43 Posted October 28, 2013 Moderators Share Posted October 28, 2013 Who is Sandra Roberts?? What is her background? Quote Jeannie<br /><br /><br />...Change is inevitable; growth is optional.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Quote: Tis far better to belong inside the fold of Christs 'church'. And that would be which one of those which you might be thinking? "I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again."John 10:14-17 NASB Quote: According to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity (CSGC) at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, there are approximately 41,000 Christian denominations and organizations in the world. This statistic takes into consideration cultural distinctions of denominations in different countries, so there is overlapping of many denominations.Center for the Study of Global Christianity (2011) God cares! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Jesus has instructed the Church to "judge" on this earth as well as the Kingdom to come, where the Saints will judge men and angels. We cannot judge motive or the heart, we are called specifically to judge actions deemed in violation of Church law (open sin) and take appropriate action, as outlined in the Church Manual. Those instructions and laws may change as new light is discovered, studied and approved by the World body. The General Conference has taken a position that "judges" this action of the SECC to be in violation of the "law" of the World Church. Call it what you will, the fact remains, this is exactly the position they are in now, violation of Church law. It is the duty and responsibility of the G.C., AND THE MEMBERSHIP, to respond accordingly. The ball is now in North American Division's court. They will very soon have to take a decisive position on this (as will all members of the world Church). This is very serious issue that could lead to a split within the Church at the highest levels. Since we are told the Church will appear as about to fall, perhaps this is the beginning of the fulfillment of prophecy? In that regard, it's good news, another sign we are drawing closer to the end and these things must come to pass. Get ready, get ready... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted October 28, 2013 Moderators Share Posted October 28, 2013 Who is Sandra Roberts?? What is her background? The sad thing is that, in a way, it almost doesn't matter. For some folk, the fact that she has ovaries makes *any* consideration of her actual qualities, skills, beliefs and fitness for the role irrelevant. Leaving that aside, here's a quick bio from Adventist Today: Quote: Roberts has served as the second-ranking administrative officer for the conference since 2004. For five years prior to that she was director of young adult ministries for the conference and from 1995 to 2000 she was a pastor at the Corona (California) Church. She served as chaplain for the church school in Loma Linda from 1992 to 1995 and prior to that as director of the conference's youth camp. She was called to the conference from Central California in 1987 where she was Bible teacher at Modesto Adventist Academy. She started denominational employment in 1982 as a teacher at Cedar Lake Academy in the Michigan Conference. Roberts has a master's degree from Andrews University and a Doctor of Ministry degree from the Claremont School of Theology. She is the daughter of Adventist missionaries and has spent considerable time traveling around the world. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted October 28, 2013 Moderators Share Posted October 28, 2013 There is an interesting 1995 article in MINISTRY magazine which can be found as follows: https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1995/04/the-rise-and-fall-of-adventist-women-in-leadership It should be noted that in 1900, during the time that EGW was alive, there was a female President of the Iowa Conference. I wonder why we have no record of EGW objecting to that. Maybe because she approved of Flora Plummer becoming the Acting Iowa Conference President? Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted October 28, 2013 Members Share Posted October 28, 2013 Thanks Gregory for this insight. Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 "...there was a female President of the Iowa Conference." A bit misleading Gregory, from the article she was an acting President due to the President being called away for a time. This is consistent with Ellen Whites counsel concerning women heading up Churches as well. In some circumstances this is acceptable. We see this principle applied in scripture as well with women taking traditional male rolls under certain and extreme conditions. Such examples are often employed to make a case for women being in the highest leadership rolls without consideration given to the extreme circumstances under which they served. Sister White offers practical solutions to very real problems that come up from time to time in various ways. There are always exceptions to a given rule. Principles need to be applied. Ellen White refused to involve herself in the womens movements of her time, even though being urged to do so. I find her counsel on the roll of women balanced, practical and worthy of study. I don't find anything in her counsel suggesting women should routinely rise to the level of Pastor of a Church or to a Presidential position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 28, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted October 28, 2013 Tacit approval. The silence of strong counsel from God through her against women in ministry and WO when it was a real issue openly discussed is very telling. This article is a very important summary of the history of the role of women in our Church. Over and over in discussions on this forum we have been reminded of the lack of knowledge of that history. As the author concludes the article: Quote: Is it possible that many Seventh-day Adventists today have forgotten—or never had the chance to learn—about the church's rich and innovative history when Adventist women were welcomed as more equal partners in the church's life, decision-making posts, and gospel mission? What a difference it could make if those claiming to be "historic Adventists" that are opposed to WO, and even women in ministry, actually had the foundation in our history that their self-proclaimed title suggests. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 28, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted October 28, 2013 "...there was a female President of the Iowa Conference." A bit misleading Gregory, from the article she was an acting President due to the President being called away for a time. You misunderstand. The President was called to serve in another conference, not temporarily, or as you say, "for a time". He was not coming back. So until a successor was chosen, she as the Conference Secretary, became the acting president. But I think it very important that everyone read the whole article. The prominence of women in leadership and the gospel ministry in our early history while EGW was alive was substantial. There was a steady decline after the death of the woman prophet. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 "Temporary" is the correct term, she was never elected, she was in office for a time due to unusual circumstances. The examples we see, continually, concerning women in leadership rolls typically involve extraordinary circumstances. This is consistent with Sister Whites practical counsel on such matters, not just related to women. Such counsel concerning extraordinary circumstances would apply to a wide range of principles. Like your ox falling in the ditch on Sabbath. EVERY Sabbath? You really need to fix the fence... It is also consistent with the many and varied biblical examples. I believe it is misleading to then use these extraordinary circumstances as an example of authorization as the norm for any principal. Tom says, "The silence of strong counsel from God through her against women in ministry and WO when it was a real issue openly discussed is very telling." The silence of strong counsel in approval of women in headship rolls is also very telling! Personally I don't use the examples of her silence on any issue to determine what her position was or was not. The daily. The Holy Spirit. The 144,000. Whether James or Uriah were right about Daniel 11:45. These are all examples of silence. Yet, folks continue to see something beyond silence and infer some meaning. I see, "silence". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Ellen White often refused to comment or share an opinion on some subject. She told the Church to go to the bible, reason it out. There will be new light, consider it carefully, don't rely on her gift to resolve everything. Let the G.C. committee do it's job is the proper and right thing as it concerns respect and honoring those appointed over us by our Lord. He IS in control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted October 28, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 28, 2013 Let the G.C. committee do it's job is the proper and right thing as it concerns respect and honoring those appointed over us by our Lord. He IS in control. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted October 28, 2013 Moderators Share Posted October 28, 2013 No need for panic! Indeed. This is not a life and death issue. Gun crime in our cities is a life or death issue. It is rather ironic that the SDA church, which has a woman as its most influential figure (for some more influential than Jesus!), has found itself in a position where it will not recognize the election of a female president of one of its regions but has elected a female vice-president of the world church. How can church policy allow a GC vice-president to be a female and not allow a conference president to be female. Ridiculous. It's ok to have female body parts at GC but not SECC. The ball is certainly in the NAD's court. I hope Dan Jackson will allow Ella Simmons to escort President Sandra Roberts to her seat at the first session of NAD meetings. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted October 28, 2013 Moderators Share Posted October 28, 2013 Let the G.C. committee do it's job is the proper and right thing as it concerns respect and honoring those appointed over us by our Lord. He IS in control. If the committee comes back and says that women can be ordained, will you accept what the Lord has said through the committee? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.