SooutheasternCalifornia elects female Conference President.

[Gregory Matthews]

The vote was 72% in favor of electing a female as Conference President.

http://www.atoday.org/article/2130/news/...tern-california

[Gregory Matthews]

Another interesting comment:

Quote:

La Sierra University Church senior pastor Chris Oberg spoke, noting that during the administration of former GC president Neal C. Wilson, Southeastern California Conference was at odds with the General Conference when it moved to pay men and women equally.

[phkrause]

Isn't that a hoot! I can remember back in the 70s or so at AUC when not only did they want Women to get equal pay with the Men, but us non teachers, administrators, etc., also wanted equal pay. Not sure if that ever worked out, but that's the way it should be.

[olger]

Rebellion begets rebellion.

G

[lazarus]

If it were not for some Godly men in London, UK many of us who are Pastors now would not be serving. They called it rebellion back then too! Back then we had the right body parts but just had the wrong color.

[nuff sed]

Quote from friend Krause ... "And that's the way it should be".....No it's not. Groundskeepers don't get paid the same as College professors no matter how much they think that they deserve it. Nuff Sed

[olger]

Ordination has always (correct me if I'm wrong) been a prerequisite to the highest leadership positions. And leadership/ordination has been restricted to males as per Biblical principles and teaching.

There is also a committee which is currently studying the doctrinal aspect, so why is SECC acting independently on that which the church has not yet validated? The plain intent of the two GC votes in the 1990's was to deny women that rite of ordination. It is also evident that the church has no policy or doctrine which includes those leadership positions for women. So, given the obvious and oft sounded restrictions urged by the world church, on what biblical grounds does SECC appoint their newest test case?

SECC knows exactly how much the world church is offended by their autonomous actions. They simply don't care because they seem convinced (with good reason so far) that nothing will be done about it. And if the church is split…what do they care?

The word for that is rebellion. No other way to call it.

[phkrause]

Quote from friend Krause ... "And that's the way it should be".....No it's not. Groundskeepers don't get paid the same as College professors no matter how much they think that they deserve it. Nuff Sed

Thanks friend 'nuff sed, I do agree with that.

[olger]

Quote from friend Krause ... "And that's the way it should be".....No it's not. Groundskeepers don't get paid the same as College professors no matter how much they think that they deserve it. Nuff Sed

Nuff said be soundin good.

`nough said,

G

[CyberGuy]

This from Spectrum

When President Penick announced the conference nominating committee report, Pacific Union Conference president Ricardo Graham took the stage to preside alongside committee chair, Dr. Fritz Guy. Guy brought the recommendations of the committee for a vote.

Graham prefaced the discussion and votes on nominees with news that he had received personal communication from General Conference president Ted Wilson. Graham delivered the cautionary message from Elder Wilson, warning that if a woman were elected president, it would put the conference and the union in direct conflict with the General Conference, and a woman president would not be seated or given a vote at the upcoming Year End Meetings in Silver Spring. At this news, a loud murmur rippled through the gathering.

Graham hastened to add that the nominating committee had followed conference and union by-laws “to a T” (bringing strong applause) and that any potential conflict would only be between the union and the General Conference. He conveyed that voting for a woman as president would not be a problem from a conference or union policy standpoint and referenced union action concerning the North American Division’s E-60 policy.

Following Graham’s remarks, Dr. Guy moved the first recommendation of the nominating committee: Dr. Sandra Roberts as conference president. Delegates almost immediately began flocking to microphones to speak to the motion. The first commenter, a pastor, stated that some delegates did not hear Elder Wilson’s message, and asked Graham to repeat it, which Graham obligingly did.

Next, a slew of delegates spoke both for and against Roberts. Those in opposition to the nomination cited church unity and the need to defer to the world church on matters of ordination of women. Graham pointed out that as for General Conference policy requiring that a conference president be an ordained minister, Roberts already was (In March of 2012, SECC voted to ordain pastors without regard to gender).

Among those in favor of Roberts’ nomination, several prominent leaders spoke. Among them, Loma Linda University Church senior pastor Randy Roberts (no relation to Sandra) took the microphone, first stating that he felt it was very unfortunate that Elder Wilson chose not to deliver his message in person, electing instead to compel Graham to do it while simultaneously chairing the vote on Sandy Roberts’ nomination. Continuing, Randy Roberts stated that unity demands equality, and noted that it is those leaders in power who call for unity, and never those excluded from power. When he finished speaking, delegates applauded loudly.

La Sierra University Church senior pastor Chris Oberg spoke, noting that during the administration of former GC president Neal C. Wilson, Southeastern California Conference was at odds with the General Conference when it moved to pay men and women equally.

Following a vigorous discussion, and with numerous delegates still lined up to speak, Frieda Roos, a member of the conference executive committee called Roberts “the most qualified person to be president at this moment,” and called the previous question. Over 80% of delegates voted to end discussion and vote on Roberts’ nomination. Graham opened voting.

When the results were finally disclosed, 72% of delegates had voted to make Sandy Roberts the first woman to serve as a conference president in the Adventist denomination. Delegates responded with loud, sustained applause. Almost instantaneously, social media sites lit up with photos, status updates and tweets announcing the news and sending it viral.

Roberts’ rise to the presidency comes on the heels of her nine years as executive secretary. Prior to that, she served in the conference’s youth department for five years. She is a former pastor, chaplain, teacher and general manager at Pine Springs Ranch camp and conference center. Roberts succeeds Elder Gerald Penick, who served as president for nine years, and who will return to pastoral ministry to finish out his career of denominational service.

The rest of the conference officers were elected by large margins without discussion

[CyberGuy]

Ted Wilson really just should not get involved. By threatening to deny a woman a vote as president of her conference simply because of her Gender really puts Ted Wilson in a very bad light. More and more conferences will follow suit and have their presidents as women.

Our PUC delegation was urged by African students in West Africa to ordain our women because they to wanted to ordain women but wanted North America to do so first. Once precedence had been set they will work to ordain women in Africa.

So you see it is gaining ground even in Africa to Ordain women.

[Neil D]

Quote:

When the results were finally disclosed, 72% of delegates had voted to make Sandy Roberts the first woman to serve as a conference president in the Adventist denomination. Delegates responded with loud, sustained applause. Almost instantaneously, social media sites lit up with photos, status updates and tweets announcing the news and sending it viral.

72%....that's a lot of people who have studied the issue and come to a conclusion that women need to have an ordained female for a Conference President.....Surely, the bible is plain in its guidelines, "thou shalt have women on equal ground with the men".... Just the sheer numbers of people, MEN! no less, who have come to the conclusion that thier jobs should be open to females and not just a men's only group....What does that say about the Holy Spirit moving upon men....

[ClubV12]

Doctrine has never been determined by "sheer numbers".

Check out the lessons in the bible, the majority were ALWAYS the ones who lost in the end! Korah was sure his rebellion was bible based and the people were holy, everyone of them. Eight got into the ark. Joshua and Caleb alone entered the land. The list goes on, numbers are meaningless in determining truth.

Ted Wilson is bound by ethics and Church law to uphold Church law for the World Church. I don't buy into the arguments that in some way a Conference or a Division can make law as they fit independant of the World Church. ONE law they cannot get around is the one that says they will operate in harmony with the World Church. They threw that out and are now operating on cunningly devised fables to make their case for why they can rebell within the law. No, they can't and I'm glad to see Ted Wilson isn't about to back down.

[CyberGuy]

It is not wise to throw out 60 percent of the church because they just happen to be the wrong gender from service in the church. Give it time. Eventually women will be ordained by the WHOLE church. Already women have been ordained for 20 plus years in China. China has over 500,000 members and most of the churches are ORDAINED women pastors.

Is China in rebellion? If so how can they grow so fast unless they are blessed by the Holy Spirit and how can they be blessed by the Holy Spirit if they are in rebellion?

Something to think about.

[CyberGuy]

Year end meetings happens in the next week or two. We shall see if Ted is full of hot air and empty threats or if he will back it up. Wish he would. It would set off such a firestorm worldwide Ted would not know what hit him.

[ClubV12]

China is a good example of the balance and practical advice Ellen White offered for many situations. Children, if necessary, would be used by God to give the message if there was no other way. This does not mean we should consider children or women in China as our example to set World Church law. Exceptions to a rule always exist.

I do find it troubling, CyberGuy, that you think "sheer numbers" somehow translate into "truthful doctrine". That has NEVER been the case in the bible, no, not once! The whole world wondered after the beast, that doesn't make for truth or accurate doctrine.

IF the whole Church goes against the World Church, it will fulfill prophecy. It will appear as the Church is about to fall.

Given enough time, what if the "whole Church" went against the World Church and determined that active, open, gay Pastors and even Presidents should be allowed to serve? Would that make it "truthful doctrine", just based on the "sheer numbers"? Some think so...

CyberGuy says,

"We shall see if Ted is full of hot air and empty threats or if he will back it up." Paul got slapped down and apologized when he said as much to the High Priest. He followed that up with a bible verse, "Respect the leader of your people".

[mel20]

BOYCOTT... is not an impossible future acts, especially to Sandra Roberts and SECC leaders. This is not about women ordination anymore. This is far more about the ugly. disrespectful. and negative thoughts towards our Church world leaders,

BOYCOTT...While you can travel from coast to coast, you can also discovering this globe, and will find some little flock of Adventists wherever you go. And they are not stupid. In case this boycott starts happening, their ignorance and a willful neglecting to Sandra Roberts & SECC are not because of their hatred to them, but because of their hatred and rebellion to the worldwide church.

BOYCOTT...This is a total disregard and disrespect for authority, and lack of trust in God. Do not move presumptuously and hastily forward to disregard the leadership of our Church. We are NOT a Political Arena.

BOYCOTT...If she is genuine she will tell you to wait and make no votes for her until God speaks clearly through the General Conference while in Session. Her life is her most powerful sermon preached from the Pulpit of Life. But now, please don't be shocked if she travels outside southern California, she will be warmly welcomed, as a friend and our official administrator--but rejected as a woman ordained president; because her example of disrespect toward leadership will return heavily upon her.

BOYCOTT...this was a simple test on Obedience, Patience, and Waiting upon the Lord through the appointed leader that God put in Place. Whether you believeor trust Elder Ted Wilson or not you are to abide by Gods word until He moves and makes things clearer to all of us. Therefore trust in the Lord and lean NOT to our own understanding. Trust Gods Decision for HIS Church!

[Neil D]

Doctrine has never been determined by "sheer numbers".

[CyberGuy]

China is a good example of the balance and practical advice Ellen White offered for many situations. Children, if necessary, would be used by God to give the message if there was no other way. This does not mean we should consider children or women in China as our example to set World Church law. Exceptions to a rule always exist.

Hummm. So it is ok for China but not for SECC. When you start making exceptions to the rule then you are inconsistent and unfair. The Church in China is growing rapidly. It is obvious the Holy spirit is outpouring there. Remember the Day of Pentacost in the bible when 3000 were converted in one day.

The SDA church is the fastest growing church in the world.

If we are to finish the work before Christ comes we need everyone men and women to be on deck to finish the work. Our church memberships is 60 percent women. Why should we exclude 60 percent of our membership from Conference presidentcies when we allow women to serve in every other position.

Remember that we paid women less then men for doing the same job 30 years ago. SECC was one of the first to step forward and vote to pay women the same as men even before the North AMerican church did.

Now did that make SECC a rebel conference then? Or just a progressive and more fair conference.

A Year ago the North American Division voted to allow women to serve as conference presidents. Ted Wilson called the NAD president into his office the next day and then the HAD Executive committee reversed their vote. What did Ted Wilson say to the NAD president to cause them to reverse their vote?

What arm twisting was done? What bullying was done? What threats were made?

It is these kinds of tactics that cause harsh feelings All through the NAD Unions that voted to allow Women to serve as conference presidents and then Have Ted Wilson bully people to reverse it.

We shall see what happens at Fall Council.

[olger]

"Eve had been perfectly happy by her husband’s side in her Eden home; but, like restless modern Eves, she was flattered with the hope of entering a higher sphere than that which God had assigned her. In attempting to rise above her original position, she fell far below it. A similar result will be reached by all who are unwilling to take up cheerfully their life duties in accordance with God’s plan" Patriarchs and Prophets, 58, 59.

[olger]

Spoken by an Adventist woman today:

"I cannot stand idly by and watch this topic any longer. I think many within the Adventist church acknowledge that women have, through the years contributed greatly to ministry in the church. It is ridiculous to pretend that we have not. Why though... is it imperative to be ordained in order to serve? What is it about "us" as a people that feels we are not being successful if we don't have a title? I am ashamed at the way Elder Wilson has been treated. I am ashamed at the liberal element in our church today who has an agenda that frightens me beyond measure. We are told this exact thing will occur, but it is sad to watch. Every single one of us as Adventists has been endowed with varied gifts - if we really cared about the work being carried out, we would just get up and do what we can without seeking a position or title. The politics of a "title" enshrouded in this false cloak of equality is really quite sickening. May God help us."

[olger]

Another testimony by a woman today:

"I am a woman, and I don't like to be subserviant to a woman. I always choose male doctors for excample. God made me to respect men as the leaders. Woman are more emotional beings and have so much on their stake. I trust mens decisions more. We are equal and we help make the decisions, and we give insight the men can't go woithout, but He gave the men the authoritative voice and composure. On top of that...I know most men don't like at all to be subserviant to a female. God made them that way. We as woman have a role to play that men just can't.....we have the gift of compasion and suppose to be involved in welfare and other much needed areas. Why oh why try to turn God's roles upside down. Look around you woman, you are much needed in an other capasity. The things we are suppose to hold together are falling apart cause the enemy is holding us up where God did not want us to be held up. Please excepts God's order of things. If you can't be Biblical in this area, how are you gonna stand for all the other Biblical truths. Jonker I think alot of SDA's are not arguing about this, but we want to stand on Biblical truth, be even true in the 'simplest' 'smallest' of matters. But is it a small matter when men in their inner being don't like a woman to 'govern' over them. No - do it God's way. He made us, He knows best."

A.N.

[CoAspen]

"Eve had been perfectly happy by her husband’s side in her Eden home; but, like restless modern Eves, she was flattered with the hope of entering a higher sphere than that which God had assigned her. In attempting to rise above her original position, she fell far below it. A similar result will be reached by all who are unwilling to take up cheerfully their life duties in accordance with God’s plan" Patriarchs and Prophets, 58, 59.

Again, as usual, you are trying to say that on the issue of WO, women are reaching 'above' their designed role without supportt hat God does not call women to other roles than those assigned by the church. You also, by inferrence, saying that women are being tempted by Satan when going down the road to WO.

You are not supported by the material you quoted...cut and paste....

[lazarus]

We shall see what happens at Fall Council.

I suspect you mean the NAD year-end meetings. Apparently, GC vice-presidents were able to talk President Wilson "down" from an attempt to take more punitive action in the aftermath of 2012 ordination votes. Wilson's options are again limited. I guess there will be a strong statement, some arm twisting and the some careers will be stymied but that will be the sum of it.

[Gregory Matthews]

Olger, I wonder why you cut off the citation from PP (pages 58 & 59) at the place where you cut it off.

I looked it up. Here is what you cut off:

Quote:

In their efforts to reach positions for which He has not fitted them, many are leaving vacant the place where they might be a blessing. In their desire for a higher sphere, many have sacrificed true womanly dignity and nobility of character, and have left undone the very work that Heaven appointed them.

NOTE: EGW is clear, that the problem is when women attempt to reach positions for which God has not fitted them. The position of the WO people is that God has fitted them for that. The experience of the SDA Church in China shows how God has fitted women for pastoral work. I could cite other examples.

Anyway, I just wanted to add the part that you did not quote.