SooutheasternCalifornia elects female Conference President.

[ClubV12]

In fact I HAVE considered such accusations are baseless! And I do concur if we spend a lot of time with a fine tooth comb over every issue we will never get anything done!

Roberts is an a unique position. The fact that she will come under extreme scrutiny in every regard is reality. I think such scrutiny is warranted in this specific case. Yes, because she is a woman. Because she is ordained. Because she is the first women President. As "bias" as that may sound, it is reasonable considering the circumstances of her election.

[Tom Wetmore]

If baseless why repeat them? Do you consider that a real part of their baselessness is that they are simply motivated by a strong bias against women in leadership and not much else?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Roberts is an a unique position. The fact that she will come under extreme scrutiny in every regard is reality. I think such scrutiny is warranted in this specific case. Yes, because she is a woman. Because she is ordained. Because she is the first women President. As "bias" as that may sound, it is reasonable considering the circumstances of her election.

I hope the "scrutiny" will also include everything she might do with aplomb...

[phkrause]

Accusations..always, but never proof! What does the Bible say about 'rumor mongering'?

Exactly, and lets not forget "gossip" also a favorite of many.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: CoAspen

Accusations..always, but never proof! What does the Bible say about 'rumor mongering'?

Exactly, and lets not forget "gossip" also a favorite of many.

Yeah, I like listening to it alot...especially here on the board...Stan is the head Jesuit and all of the moderators and admin are part of the same order of Jesuits...We've been over this several times in the last 20 years....

since I used to be a moderator, and hence a "former" Jesuit, I wonder what that makes me now? former Jesuit? Secret agent Jesuit? Defrocked Jesuit? A catholic of a different order? Oh, the possibilities are endless rumors....

[ClubV12]

There is a difference between rumors and facts. FACT is Roberts trained at a school specializing in spiritual formation.

Simple question PK, what was that all about and why? Tom suggests so that she might know how to combat spiritual formation error. Oh really? My concern is that she supports spiritual formation to some degree or the other.

Would you know, PK, whether she does, or not? And if she does, it is in a good way or a bad way? My concerns are not based on rumor or gossip, but known facts that raise serious questions.

CoAspen is the one making wild comments not based on fact but opinion.

[CoAspen]

Still waiting for the facts, not rumors, not gossip, just facts!

(what is wild about that question?)

Truth is important, or so I'm told, so just becasue some one is using a word, phrase or has attended a school where a subject is taught using the words that another person refuses to accept alternative explanations.....ah whats the use...just use assuptioms, certainly easier that finding out the truth!

[ClubV12]

Fact:

She has a degree from Claremont School of Theology, specializing in Spiritual Formation.

Fact: CoAspen has no idea what this means or what it's about.

Fact: Tom has no idea with this means either.

Fact: The extreme bias toward support for W.O. disallows for ANY questions to be asked as it regards their cherised opinions and leaders elected in direct violation, with complete disregard, in full blown open rebellion and apostasy against the world Church.

[Tom Wetmore]

One fact slightly mis-stated.

Two accusations impossible for you to know as fact.

And one wildly stated baseless accusatory opinion.

Labeling something as "fact" doesn't make it so.

[phkrause]

Club I have every confidence that if she has learned the wrong SF

that God will take care of the situation. Is he not in charge? Has he not been in charge all these years? Whatever he has in mind will work itself out. I have no doubt in God, he has everything under control.

[ClubV12]

Thank you PK, I appreciate that thought and I agree. Even if the Church needs to be taken into captivity to Babylon, as the children of the covenant had to, God is in control!

[olger]

Have ye not read, Sandra Roberts' dissertation?

[CoAspen]

Well said, continued accusations....still no proof!

What I find most interesting about this topic is the premise of guilty until proven innocent. Some one make an accusations and then says "..no defenders so it must be true"! Is this how God asks His followers to treat others? I don't know Roberts or anything about her but what is in print. Have any of these accusers of her ever sat down with her or talked to her? Why do people resort to tabloid journalism to disparage those they disagree with?

There were many zealots in Christ day and I believe we have them today. They were misguided then and are currently.

[ClubV12]

I sure wish somebody would sit down and talk to her!! What we have is the appearance that these issues have been swept under the rug. There is a difference between making wild accusations and simply asking for clairification of the facts of her history, her position. Her history raises some legitimate questions.

WHY are you so eager to sweep them under the rug and ignore them, CoAspen, Tom? Are you hiding something? The truth can withstand the closest scrutiny, it's not asking to much in this case for more detail on the obvious facts we DO know about.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

he truth can withstand the closest scrutiny, it's not asking to much in this case for more detail on the obvious facts we DO know about.

And yet we get no 'facts' that you and whomever know about! Still waiting for those.......speaking of hiding!

[ClubV12]

If you missed the facts, start at the beginning of the thread, read slowly. The facts are there.

[Neil D]

Fact:

She has a degree from Claremont School of Theology, specializing in Spiritual Formation.

[snip]

Fact: The extreme bias toward support for W.O. disallows for ANY questions to be asked as it regards their cherised opinions and leaders elected in direct violation, with complete disregard, in full blown open rebellion and apostasy against the world Church.

What do you think 'SPIRITUAL FORMATION' means?

Give that phrase a good explanation, please....

[Gregory Matthews]

Club V12 said:

Quote:

As to what exactly her position is, I don't know.

That is exactly where you may be wrong.

This is the type of reasoning:

Fact: Dr. Dr. B (now dead) attended a Roman Catholic University.

Fact: Dr. B graduated from that Roman Catholic University with a graduate degree.

Fact: Dr. B was honored by that University for the graduate work that he did.

Conclusion: It is clear that Dr. B is not a true SDA and is contaminated by Roman Catholic theology and practice.

Garbage. The conclusion is not true.

[olger]

I have a copy of Sam Bacchiocchi's dissertation. In it he validates the Sabbath and refutes the Catholic adoption of Sunday.

I have a copy of Sandy Roberts dissertation. In it she validates Roman Catholic mystical practices including Lectio Divina.

Your analogy is not univocal, Greg.

[Gregory Matthews]

Perhaps you might post a link to her disertation so we all could read it.

[Johann]

I have a copy of Sam Bacchiocchi's dissertation. In it he validates the Sabbath and refutes the Catholic adoption of Sunday.

I have a copy of Sandy Roberts dissertation. In it she validates Roman Catholic mystical practices including Lectio Divina.

Your analogy is not univocal, Greg.

A major issue in the dissertation of Samuelle Bacchiocchi is that the Roman Catholic Church changed the day from Saturday to Sunday, and this is the point the pope himself was happy to hear from a Seventh-day Adventist, so he gave Samuelle his golden medal for the dissertation.

[olger]

So you havent' yet read her dissertation on spiritual formation?

[olger]

Originally Posted By: olger

I have a copy of Sam Bacchiocchi's dissertation. In it he validates the Sabbath and refutes the Catholic adoption of Sunday.

I have a copy of Sandy Roberts dissertation. In it she validates Roman Catholic mystical practices including Lectio Divina.

Your analogy is not univocal, Greg.

A major issue in the dissertation of Samuelle Bacchiocchi is that the Roman Catholic Church changed the day from Saturday to Sunday, and this is the point the pope himself was happy to hear from a Seventh-day Adventist, so he gave Samuelle his golden medal for the dissertation.

Uhh...after Sam graduated and Andrews began printing his dissertation in a book titled "From Sabbath to Sunday" the RCC had a change of heart and attempted to discredit Sam's work and tie up his dissertation. He (Sam) had to buy the rights to his own dissertation at a cost of over 10k to keep it in his possession.

It's a good story.