NAD Votes Report from Theology of Ordination Study Committee

[Tom Wetmore]

Read the NAD News Point - http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=84ac041b8b705798057dab6f2&id=2600220283

The vote indicates unequivocal support for WO by Church leadership from NAD.

This news report include links to the full report, plus various presentations and videos presented at the NAD Year End Meeting.

Here is also a link to the NAD Theology of Ordination Committee website -

http://nadordination.com

[Woody]

[ClubV12]

Well at least they all agree on the issue not being clearly defined in the bible or the Spirit of Prophecy, that's encouraging, that they could agree on something!

100% agree on this:

"We believe that an individual, as a Seventh-day Adventist in thorough commitment to the full authority of Scripture, may build a defensible case in favor of or in opposition to the ordination of women to the gospel ministry, although each of us views one position or the other as stronger and more compelling."

It's a little late for NAD to close the barn door, the horses got out sometime ago. In that respect, I'm not sure how much weight, if any, I would give their study at the G.C. level.

[Tom Wetmore]

How about withholding judgment until you have read the whole report, all 240 pages, yourself and viewed all the presentations.

After the various presentations had been given and before the vote, the NAD Executive Committee had about an hour and a half for Q&A to the Study Committee members. The question of bias was raised since only two members out of the 14 represented the minority report and it was acknowledged that nobody had changed their POV regarding WO as a result of their work. One member stated that from his perspective he began with the brief that WO was the right thing to do, but also with the clear perspective of an open mind that recognized that he could be wrong.

I think you need to give all of these men and women credit for approaching this whole issue with an open mind, as we all should.

As far as timing and horses already on the run, what you seem to overlook is that the horses are already running because from the NAD perspective this isn't their first rodeo. Where NAD is at this point reflects 40 years of studying this over and over and trying to keep those horses in the barn.

[olger]

That 'committee' was stacked with 90% pro-WO people. Bias much?

[ClubV12]

I see your point Tom. What I find somewhat disturbing is that a "study" should be delivered for due consideration by the committee appointed to review and condense all such studies. Without introducing bias into the process of the review.

Here we have a study submitted with the "foregone" conclusion by a strong majority, that supports W.O. It seems to me that decision is best left to the G.C. committee reviewing all the studies.

Perhaps it is right and proper to submit the various studies while announcing the conclusion of that Division at the same time? If so, then I would expect all the Divisons to follow suit. "Here's our study, in which, we conclude W.O. is NOT authorized". Or, "Here's our study, in which we conclude W.O. IS authorized".

I don't know, it seems like "politicizing" the process and seeking to influence or even intimidate the G.C. committee. Maybe this is just the way "studies" are handled within the Church?

Olger, that may or may not be true, but it's not my primary concern. The same could be said of any of the studies for the Divisions. I HOPE and EXPECT that irregardless of their position, they are still able to perform their duty. An honest, unbiased, study of the issue.

[Woody]

Let the horses run free.

[Tom Wetmore]

That 'committee' was stacked with 90% pro-WO people. Bias much?

And you assume no bias from everyone with whom you agree?

But more to the point, like I said to Club, how about withholding judgment until you also have read the whole thing and viewed all the presentations. And I suppose you actually might consider less of a show of blatant bias yourself. Project much?

[Tom Wetmore]

I see your point Tom. What I find somewhat disturbing is that a "study" should be delivered for due consideration by the committee appointed to review and condense all such studies. Without introducing bias into the process of the review.

Here we have a study submitted with the "foregone" conclusion by a strong majority, that supports W.O. It seems to me that decision is best left to the G.C. committee reviewing all the studies.

Perhaps it is right and proper to submit the various studies while announcing the conclusion of that Division at the same time? If so, then I would expect all the Divisons to follow suit. "Here's our study, in which, we conclude W.O. is NOT authorized". Or, "Here's our study, in which we conclude W.O. IS authorized".

I don't know, it seems like "politicizing" the process and seeking to influence or even intimidate the G.C. committee. Maybe this is just the way "studies" are handled within the Church?

Olger, that may or may not be true, but it's not my primary concern. The same could be said of any of the studies for the Divisions. I HOPE and EXPECT that irregardless of their position, they are still able to perform their duty. An honest, unbiased, study of the issue.

But Club, the GC did specifically asked for the conclusion of the consensus of each Division's Study Committee with their recommendations. That is very much the whole point of this exercise - to hopefully arrive at a consensus, a conclusion based on the collective study of the matter. The intent is that this to be an open and transparent process and not some secret deliberation that gets hidden when it doesn't turn out as hoped like it has in the past studies. They did exactly what they were asked to do.

I am not sure what those of you opposed to WO expected would happen. The composition of the committee of pro and con and their conclusions were remarkably consistent with the leadership's POV as reflected in the vote. It is also consistent with prior studies and votes that have been expressed at the Union and conference level. Within the context of NAD that is quite predictable.

[ClubV12]

Thanks for clairifying the G.C. wanted a conclusion along with the report. Still...

It would be easier to withold judgment on NAD's report had it been delivered with a humble spirit. Now it's like reading a book someone threw at you and told you how it ended before you even craked it open! Still, it's a good book, but your going to see different things, read it in a different way. Particularly when it was given to you in what I would consider a "rude" manner. And "in your face" and "take that" G.C. committee attitude.

Sure, I'll read it, as best as I can without bias, NAD hasn't made that easy. Since they have boldly supported ordination already. Since they have thrown the study at me with their attitude front and center.

The bias will be difficult, if not impossible, to ignore as a result. For me and the G.C. committee as well. Seriously, I really do have to consider Olgers comment as valid to some degree as a result, as I read through the report. At best, NAD has poisoned the report.

I wonder, if there were a Senate Investigation they would be calling the authors of the study on the carpet for a hearing. Or asking for a new study all together with different players.

To some degree they done shot themselves in the foot Tom. I'm trying to fair, they sure making it hard to do.

[Gregory Matthews]

A general comment, not specific to anyone.

In reality, it would probably be impossible to put qualified people on the committee who had not already decided the issue for themselves. This issue has been around for decades. It has consumed the energy of our scholars. Informed people have studied the issue and come to terms with a personal decision.

If there are any who have not done so, I would probably not want them on the committee. I would question why they had not studied the issue for themselves.

The committee was 100% in saying that while they had already formed an opinion, they were all willing to change their minds if convinced by Biblical evidence. I accept that as a true statement. I believe them.

In my thinking, one strength of the report was the united statement that they all believed that honest, sincere people, committed to Biblical truth, could disagree on this point at the Bible was not totally definitive and therefore, people had to decided on the basis on their perceived majority evidence.

I believe that to be a strength of the document.

I also believe that a strength is that the minority statement was formally submitted along with the majority statement.

While I intend to spend more time with the document, I am impressed with it.

[ClubV12]

Only time will tell if NAD will actually accept a G.C. decision that opposes W.O. That has always been my biggest concern. What WILL people do, any people, either way, if they don't get their way on this? NAD won't be able to undo what is has done, they will be in a serious bind if the G.C. rules against them.

We have counsel from Sister White on what to do in a case like this. We are to lay our ideas aside, however right and true they may be, in order to come into harmony with the brethren.

She, like Paul, also recognizes the obvious, we must obey God rather than man. In the issue of W.O. it does not rise to a direct violation of biblical rule or law in either direction. Therefore, one must come into harmony with the brethren, regardless of personal opinion. Which you don't have to give up!!! Put it aside, for a time, continue with pen and voice to seek what you feel needs to be done. Do it politely, be nice, honor and respect the brethren while doing so.

[CyberGuy]

SILVER SPRING - After several hours of reports from the North American Division Theology of Ordination Study Committee and lengthy discussion, attendees of the NAD Year-end Meeting voted 182 to 31 in favor of accepting the motion stating,

"We receive the biblical study of ordination prepared by the North American Division Theology of Ordination Study Committee and affirm the conclusion that all people, men and women, may receive ordination as an affirmation of the call of God, and that the North American Division support the authorization of each division to consider, through prayer and under the direction of the Holy Spirit, its most appropriate approach to the ordination of women to gospel ministry."

Six to 1 in favor of ordination of women. Very impressive.

[Tom Wetmore]

I am fairly certain that few if any that were presentwould have seen the report delivered in anything but a humble manner. There was clearly no rudeness or "in your face" sort of attitude in the presentation of the report, or in the handling of the questions and comments from the Executive Committee. Respect was shown to those that expressed concern and even strong opposition. Even though each person with a question or comment was limited to 2 minutes, when Jay Galimore came to the mic with a fairly lengthy and strong statement of opposition to the motion, Dan Jackson as chair allowed him an extra 2 or 3 minutes to finish.

The bottom line is that you cannot make that sort of assessment without having been present as an eye witness as I was.

[ClubV12]

They are professionals, they have risen to a higher level of authority than most. They are well skilled in how to conduct themselves in public. I would expect nothing less than courtesy and decorum in a public presentation and vote. Done with all due humility and the proper tone. Typically, the same way we see politicians, businessmen, other professionals carry themselves while conducting business.

Their actions before this latest vote tell a different story. One of defiance, for whatever "good" reason they may have. And often those who defy whatever the powers may be will ALWAYS have a "good" reason. They are now asking the G.C. to formally grant, to bless even, what they have already taken! The irony... That history will be difficult, if not impossible, to ignore. My assessment is based on that history. I take no joy in this. I don't want to imagine evil of my brother. One doesn't have to imagine much, considering the evidence.

Well, lets move forward then. I do hope, have been praying and will continue to pray for these committees. And that prayer has been that Gods will be done and that I will have the grace to accept it. To do what needs to be done to, as far as possible, to come into harmony with my brethren.

[Green Cochoa]

These were my own findings when I attempted to discover how "balanced" the committee was. I won't claim this is 100% accurate, but it is as accurate as I was able to come up with, and there are still many pieces of information which remain unknown, i.e. "missing." If you have those items of information, it would be interesting to be able to update this table.

#	NAME	MAN	WOMAN	ORDAINED	LAITY	PRO W.O.	CON W.O.	NOTES
1	STELE, ARTUR A, Chair	X		X		?		BRI Director
2	Mbwana, Geoffrey G, Vice-chair	X		X				ADRA board chair, GC vice president
3	Porter, Karen J, Secretary		X			?		GC Women's Ministries
4	Boward, Tamara K, Recording Secretary		X
5	Arrais, Jonas	X		X		?		GC ministerial association, associated secretary
6	Arrais, Raquel C		X			?		GC Women's Ministry Dept, associate director
7	Batchelor, Doug	X		X			X	Famous television speaker, pastor of Sacramento Central
8	Bauer, Steve	X		X
9	Beardsley-Hardy, Lisa M		X			X		Ph.D, MPH, MBA, Director Liaison for higher education to the North American Division, completed two years of theology at Newbold College, England, and graduated with a Bachelor of Theology from the SDA Theological Seminary, Far East (now Adventist International Institute of Advanced Studies) in the Philippines, holds ecclesiastical endorsement as an educational chaplain and an associate healthcare chaplain
10	Bischoff, Fred	X			?			Physician on LLU faculty, associated with White Estate, esp. researching early Adventist history
11	Bohr, Stephen	X		X			X	Famous television speaker, pastor of Fresno Central
12	Brown, Gina S		X			X		Dean, School of Health Professions, Science and Wellness at Washington Adventist University
13	Brunt, John	X		X		X
14	Ceballos, Mario E	X		X		X		Adventist Chaplaincy Ministries
15	Chang, Shirley		X		X	X		NAD lay member
16	Clark, Chester V III	X		X				Pastor of the Dalton, GA SDA Church
17	Costa, Robert	X		X
18	Damsteegt, Gerard	X		X			X	Seminary, Andrews University
19	Damsteegt, Laurel		X				X	MDiv, MPH, Gerard's wife
20	Davidson, Jo Ann M		X			X
21	Davidson, Richard M	X		X		X		Speaker on WO for decades, Andrews seminary scholar
22	de Sousa, Elias B	X		X				BRI Associate Director
23	Diop, A Ganoune	X		X				Polyglot, GC's representative to the UN
24	Donkor, Kwabena	X						Native of Ghana, associate director of the Biblical Research Institute
25	Doss, Cheryl		X			?		General Conference Institute of World Mission director
26	Fagal, William A	X		X			X	MDiv Associate Director, Ellen G. White Estate, Silver Spring, Md.
27	Finley, Mark A	X		X		?		Special assistant to GC president, longtime Seventh-day Adventist evangelist and broadcaster
28	Fortin, Denis	X		X		X		Andrews seminary scholar
29	Gothard, Doris M		X
30	Haloviak-Valentine, Kendra		X	COM		X		An associate professor in the H. M. S. Richards Divinity School at La Sierra University and a New Testament scholar who has written on the Book of Revelation. She was one of the women clergy ordained in 1995 at Sligo Church in Takoma Park, Maryland. Both of her parents were employed for many years as part of the General Conference staff, where her father retired as Director of Archives and Statistics.
31	Hasel, Michael	X
32	Holmes, C Raymond	X		X			?	Retired Believed to be strongly against WO, Former Lutheran
33	Howard, James	X		X
34	Hucks, Willie	X		X
35	Jankiewiez, Darius	X		X		X		Andrews University
36	Kent, Anthony R	X		X				General Conference
37	King, Gregory A	X		X
38	Knott, Esther		X			X		Staff pastor at the Pioneer Memorial Church at Andrews University
39	Knott, William M	X						M.Div., Ph.D. in History, Editor of Adventist World and Adventist Review
40	Koh, Linda Mei Lin		X	COM		X		Director of Children's Ministries
41	Kuntaraf, Kathleen K H		X			?		MD, MPH Associate Director, Health Ministries Department General Conference, served as delegate to 1995 GC Session
42	McLennan, Patty		X
43	Mackintosh, Don	X		X
44	Miller, Nick	X						Attorney and Associate Professor of Church History and Director of the Andrews University International Institute of Religious Liberty
45	Mills, Phil	X			X			Doctor, vegan
46	Moon, Jerry	X		X		X		Ph.D. Assoc. Prof. & Chair, Church History Department
47	Morris, Derek J	X		X				Ministry Magazine
48	Mueller, Ekkehardt F R	X		X		X		General Conference, Biblical Research Institute
49	Nelson, Dwight K	X		X		X		Senior pastor at Pioneer Memorial Church, famous television speaker
50	Nix, James R	X		X				White Estate
51	Oberg, Chris	X		X
52	Page, Janet		X			X		Once conference president's wife, women's ministries director
53	Page, Jerry N	X		X		X		Secretary of Ministerial Association, former conference president
54	Paulson, Kevin	X		X			X
55	Peters, John	X		X
56	Pfandl, Gerhard	X		X		?		Former BRI Associate Director
57	Poirier, Timothy L	X		COM				Vice-director, White Estate
58	Proffitt, Kathryn L		X			?		Terminated from the board of LSU a year ago
59	Prewitt, Eugene	X					X	Writer?
60	Rafferty, James	X					?
61	Read, David C	X			?		X
62	Reeve, Teresa		X			?
63	Reid, George	X		X			X	Former BRI Director
64	Roberts, Randall L	X		X		X		Senior Pastor of the Loma Linda College Church, strongly supports WO, and has done so on TV
65	Rodriguez, Angel M	X		X		?		Former BRI Director
66	Scarone, Daniel	X					?	Ministerial Associate Director and Hispanic Coordinator for the Michigan Conference
67	Silva, Sandra		X
68	Slikkers, Dolores E		X		X	?		Previous member of the General Conference Role and Function Committee, the Slikkers are known for their contributions to the pleasure boating industy, known for establishing Maranatha Volunteer International, with John Freeman
69	Small, Heather-Dawn K		X	COM		X		GC Director of Women's Ministries, pastor's wife
70	Sorke, Ingo	X		X			X	Assistant Professor of religion and chair of the religion department at SWAU, Appears to support ordination of deaconesses
71	Timm, Alberto R	X		X		?		Department director, SAD office, member of the BRI Committee
72	Trim, David	X		X				GC Director of Archives
73	Tutsch, Cindy		X	COM		X		Former pastor in Oregon Conference, now at EGW Estate, has M.A. in pastoral ministry, Ph.D. in leadership
74	Veloso, Mario	X		X				Former GC associate secretary, now retired
75	Vin Cross, Tara		X			X		Senior Pastor of the Chestnut Hill Church in Philadelphia, Pa
76	Wahlen, Clinton L	X					X	Ph.D. Associate Director, Biblical Research Institute
77	Warden, Ivan Leigh	X		X				Associate Director, White Estate
78	Zarska, Carol		X			?		American Cassette Ministries, Master's in Religion - Lancaster Theological Seminary, Special emphasis in Pastoral Counseling
TOTALS:		54	24	47	5	35	14	59
Percentage Tallied:		100%		67%		63%		76%

*** "COM" in the above table indicates "Commissioned/Licensed." For several women in this category, their support of WO has been assumed and indicated in the table. Others were already independently verified. These are counted as "ordained" in the tallies but differentiated above.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Gregory Matthews]

I like your work. Thank you.

O. K. So 21 of 78 are known to be in favor of female ordination and possibly as many as 35 in favor?

Whichever figure you accept, it is less than half.

[Green Cochoa]

I like your work. Thank you.

O. K. So 21 of 78 are known to be in favor of female ordination and possibly as many as 35 in favor?

Whichever figure you accept, it is less than half.

Gregory,

If I've done my math correctly, the table allows for a possibility of 82% or more of the committee members being in favor of women's ordination. Take note of the fact that 29 of the members were too obscure for me to find any reasonable expectation of their position on this issue, and those 29 would most reasonably be expected to follow the trend set by the 49 who are known. In this case, those who are pro-WO would represent over 70% of the committee. The results from the vote which we have seen already, however, show that the lopsidedness of the committee members was likely greater than this.

Note also that the question marks in the table indicate that the conclusion is fairly certain, but not 100%. The "X" is given where there was some positive evidence, such as a sermon transcript on the topic available online in which the individual's position were expressly stated.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[olger]

Thanks Cocha.

I can provide some information on a few individuals. Jim Howard is opposed to WO. Kathy Profitt is opposed to it.

Angel Rodriquez is in favor of WO.

Ray Holmes is opposed.

[olger]

Gerhard Pfandl is opposed.

Phil Mills is opposed

Don Mackintosh is opposed.

Bill Knott is a huge supporter

Paul Ratsara is opposed (not on the list)

Is this committee truly representative of the world church?

[Green Cochoa]

Unfortunately, unless the moderators were to help me out here, I'm no longer able to edit that post and update it based on your submissions, Olger. But thank you for your information.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[phkrause]

So does anyone accept the fact that God is in charge? As he has been throughout all these years, in preserving the Bible! Or is it just lip service as long as things go our way?

[Woody]

Quote:

Is this committee truly representative of the world church?

It's a NAD report

[Gregory Matthews]

Green: I am not going to argue math with you. As I understood your table, you were saying that 35 out of 78 favored female ordination. That is a bit less than 50%.

If I misunderstood your table? O.K.

[phkrause]

Green: I am not going to argue math with you. As I understood your table, you were saying that 35 out of 78 favored female ordination. That is a bit less than 50%.

If I misunderstood your table? O.K.

I don't think you've missed anything Gregory. Seems pretty obvious most were against WO, but yet it passed.