Some WO proponents are saying that ordination is Catholic - Read Desire of Ages

[olger]

Chapter

"He Ordained Twelve"

---- Read quotes below ----

"It was beneath the sheltering trees of the mountainside, but a little

distance from the Sea of Galilee, that the twelve were called to the apostolate."

"The first step was now to be taken in the organization of the church that after Christ’s departure was to be His representative on earth. . . . Their office was the most important to which human beings had ever been called, and was second only to that of Christ Himself. As in the Old Testament the twelve patriarchs stand as representatives of Israel, so the twelve apostles were to stand as representatives of the gospel church."

"While Jesus was preparing the disciples for their ordination"

Then Jesus "gathered the little band close about Him, and kneeling in the midst of them, and laying His hands upon their heads, He offered a prayer dedicating them to His sacred work. Thus the Lord’s disciples were ordained to the gospel ministry."

"Brethren of experience and of sound minds should assemble, and following the Word of God and the sanction of the Holy Spirit, should, with fervent prayer, lay hands upon those who have given full proof that they have received their commission of God, and set them apart to devote themselves entirely to His work."

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[Kevin H]

Exactly (although it westernized and modernized how the ordination was done) We are not sure just how many apostles there were in total. There were of course the 12 which were full time apostles with all the traveling and 24 hour access to the teacher. Then there were the 70 part time disciples, some having more and less time with him, probably from a couple of them that had spent more time than the others was where thy picked Judas' replacement. So there were at least 81 apostles (12 + 70, minus 1).

However the requirements to be an apostle was to 1. have observed and learned from Christ. 2. Witnessed to the fact that Christ was resurrected, 3. Be sent out to tell what they learned and experienced.

Paul told of how once over 400 saw the resurrected Christ. So we don't know how many of them had studied enough to be considered apostles, but there could have been quite a few.

We are not sure of all the details of Paul's background. Saul just seems to pop out of no where. However he was the same age as Jesus, and would have been studying in Jerusalem as Jesus was ministering. He may have been one of the Pharisees who was checking to see if Jesus was doing anything wrong. Although it was probably someone else, I'd love it if when we get to heaven we learn that Saul was the rich young ruler, as he was a rich young ruler at the time, and some of what he says could be taken as hints that it could have been him, or that he was a good friend of the rich young ruler before his conversion.

[ClubV12]

Boy I DO get tired of the Adventist "paranoia" about how our Church is like the Catholic Church. Then follows the ideas that we must stop whatever it is that looks Catholic.

So I present:

Seventh-day Adventists agree with Catholic doctrines:

The Trinity, Christ’s divinity, the virgin birth, the atonement, a physical resurrection of the dead, and Christ’s Second Coming. There are other similiarities, but you get the idea.

Just leave those Catholics alone. It's the DAUGHTERS of the beast we should be concerned about. Those good old Baptists neighbors of yours are far more "dangerous" than that Catholic neighbor in terms of coming prophetic events.

[Johann]

Boy I DO get tired of the Adventist "paranoia" about how our Church is like the Catholic Church. Then follows the ideas that we must stop whatever it is that looks Catholic.

So I present:

Seventh-day Adventists agree with Catholic doctrines:

The Trinity, Christ’s divinity, the virgin birth, the atonement, a physical resurrection of the dead, and Christ’s Second Coming. There are other similiarities, but you get the idea.

Just leave those Catholics alone. It's the DAUGHTERS of the beast we should be concerned about. Those good old Baptists neighbors of yours are far more "dangerous" than that Catholic neighbor in terms of coming prophetic events.

You might be talking some sense, Club.But didn't we get Baptism from the Batptists? The Sabbath from the Seventh-day Baptists,Sola Scriptura and justfication by faith from the Lutherans? Who else?

Ellen White tells us we should visit the pastors of these churches and have prayer with these shepherds of the flock. I have done that. How many of our pastors are doing that?

[Johann]

Luke is the Biblical writer who noticed that Jesus Christ had many female followers who followed him on his missionary journeys, at least. Notice how much he has to say about women.

[olger]

Exactly (although it westernized and modernized how the ordination was done) We are not sure just how many apostles there were in total. There were of course the 12 which were full time apostles with all the traveling and 24 hour access to the teacher. Then there were the 70 part time disciples, some having more and less time with him, probably from a couple of them that had spent more time than the others was where thy picked Judas' replacement. So there were at least 81 apostles (12 + 70, minus 1).

Jesus knows how many there are. He carved them into the foundation of the New Jerusalem. 12.

[Johann]

Where you also find the names of the 12 tribes of Israel

[olger]

No, those are the gates.

G'day.

[Kevin H]

The foundation is the 12 full time apostles, with Paul as a replacement for Judas. Not the number of people who fulfilled the role of apostle to the first century church. To the church they would look for the inspired memories of those who studied with Christ, and saw him after the resurrection.

[Johann]

No, those are the gates.

G'day.

Are we talking about the same city?

Are you planning on getting in there somewhere else than through the gates?