A couple of resorces for studying about Women' Ordination in the Bible

[Kevin H]

These are two resources that I have found useful:

http://www.biblicalresources.net/productlist.cfm?category=7&secondary=8

Attitudes Toward Women in the Bible

Attitudes Toward Women in the Bible

Price: $20.00

This notebook reviews the historical role of women in the Bible with a particular emphasis on what the scriptures say as compared to the traditional interpretation of scriptures as they relate to women. The traditional interpretation of scripture often has been insensitive to women in the Bible and to women's issues.

Author: Dr. James Fleming ----- Pages: 122

This and if you can hear the lectures that go along with it will give some very powerful and very Biblical arguments that women were ordained in Biblical days, that Jesus ordained women and that Paul supported the ordination of women. Excellent Bibliography with even more references that you can study.

Warning: If you are a conservative who is against Women's ordination believing that the only argument for it is "The Tip of the Iceberg" issue, that it is only liberals who want to excuse your favorite Key Texts as "Cultural" and thus does not apply to today, will hate this book because this book does not follow that trend of thinking. Fleming argues that ordained women was a part of Old Testament and New Testament life.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/842118.Paul_Women_and_Wives I have to confess that while I have this book and have use it some I have not read this like I should, but from what I've seen it looks promising.

[ClubV12]

The minority report from the NAD that opposes W.O. specifically addressed the issue of interpretation of scripture being seen through a cultural lens. They make a strong case for why we cannot apply such a principle to interpretation.

Not only for the issue of W.O. but such a process has insidious and dire end results for some of the pillars and foundations of our Church as well. This approach even impacts a correct understanding of prophecy.

There has been much debate lately on the methods employed to interpret scripture. I follow William Millers rules of interpretation, rules Ellen White specifically endorsed. The same rules our pioneers used to establish our fundamental doctrines.

More on this issue can be found here...

http://ordinationtruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/nad-ordination-14-minority.pdf

[Kevin H]

There you go again ClubV12, reading your arguments into the discussion where they do not fit. Fleming's work does not fall under "The Tip of the Icebergs" arguments that some of our church leaders have warned against. Fleming is very Biblically focused.

[ClubV12]

Remain calm Kevin, your post specifically address' the issue of how the bible has been interpreted. So does the Minority Report.

What IS the traditional method of interpretation your post speaks of? The minority report explores this very question, and it's very biblically focused.

Strange that you see "argument" in my post. Why is that,,, I wonder.

[Kevin H]

No, not argument, just that too many see the issue as "This is what the Bible teaches, but one group wants to follow the Bible, the other group sees that as just a cultural situation that does not apply to today." This is NOT Fleming's perspective. His takes the Bible very seriously and is saying that we are filtering those texts through tradition rather than being fair to the scriptures.

[ClubV12]

He may well be saying that (filtering those texts through tradition), but that doesn't mean he's right. He offers his studied opinion, builds his case for what he believes. Many good, dedicated people do that and yet still arrive at different conclusions. I think part of the reason is because they use different methods of interpretation.

Fleming is a Methodist. As we can't even agree in our own house on a consistent method of interpretation, I'm not sure it's a good idea to bring in a Methodists view on top of that.

I do believe the path to unity lays on first unifying on a method of interpretation we can all agree on. This issue of interpretation is far bigger than just W.O., it is the primary reason the Church cannot agree on Daniel 11 as well.

I'm just presenting an alternative view point and suggesting the NAD minority report should also be considered, along with Flemings ideas. Because that report specifically address' interpretive methods.

[Johann]

Several months ago I read in an unofficial report by a member of the GC study commission that certain televangelists, who are members of that committee, discovered they were winning souls into the church using Bible study methods that are not accepted by the church.

This seemed to be on of the main issues facing this committee.I understand that a good spirit reigns in their discussions without any outbursts, as they try to get a better understanding of each other.

[ClubV12]

Hmmmm, I didn't know we even had guidelines on bible study methods. That is something that has to remain flexible. Working in the city in particular, with the very poor or the very hardcore sinner one has to be ready to adapt as the need may be. As for myself I studied the Amazing Facts lesson plan with an Elder of the Church before I was baptized. Only later did I realize there is a wide variety of similiar bible studies available. The Elder picked Amazing Facts because he was familiar with them.

I've been studying/witnessing to lady in town for a couple of years now. She started keeping the Sabbath a couple of months ago, but has never been to Church. How did she first start keeping the Sabbath? By stocking up on her beer and cigarettes on Friday so she wouldn't have to go to the store!!! Hey, it's a start... She is coming along nicely by the way, cut way down on the booze, thinking about giving up the smokes. Getting more exercise, eating better, feeling happier. All that brings glory to God, I'll leave the final outcome to Him.

[phkrause]

Praise the Lord for you Club

[Kevin H]

Amen!!! Your work with her are in my prayers Club!!!

And although we both have very different ideas as to what does it mean to be fair to the Bible on the topic of women's ordination, I do appreciate you ClubV12.

[Johann]

Hmmmm, I didn't know we even had guidelines on bible study methods. That is something that has to remain flexible. Working in the city in particular, with the very poor or the very hardcore sinner one has to be ready to adapt as the need may be.

Reading the Bible through cultural, socio-economic filters?