M. T. Cross Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Great article http://www.huffingtonpost.com/micah-j-mu...84046b=facebook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 4, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 4, 2014 Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Hmmm, very interesting perspective and much to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Of course to accept the practicing gay sinner as "one of us", without discrimination would mean we also must accept practicing murderers, liars, adulterers, thieves, etc. Jesus did not just reveal Himself unwilling to condemn the woman caught in adultery. He gave her a word of advice He expected she would follow. " Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?” “No, Lord,” she said. And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”" John 8:10-12 NLT Jesus cares! God saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Of course to accept the practicing gay sinner as "one of us", without discrimination would mean we also must accept practicing murderers, liars, adulterers, thieves, etc.Jesus did not just reveal Himself unwilling to condemn the woman caught in adultery. He gave her a word of advice He expected she would follow. Do you accept your fellow church members LHC? Do you think any of them are without "sin"? You accept practicing sinners every minute of every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted January 4, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 4, 2014 accepting people where they are does not require us to follow their example. while we were sinners Christ died for us. God accepts us right where we are at. we are much more limited and we have a hard time accepting even the reality that we are sinners. God already accepted we are sinners, provided grace for the race, died for the race, and makes intercession for the race, all the while fully accepting sinners. this does not cause God to become sinful or unholy to do this, neither should it be causes us to lose our relationship to God to accept ourselves as sinners, and to accept others as they are. accepting others does not make us worse sinners, or make us any more sinful. accepting others does not mean we start loving sin. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted January 4, 2014 Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2014 Accepting a person does not mean accepting either that person's lifestyle or beliefs. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 4, 2014 Members Share Posted January 4, 2014 Accepting a person does not mean accepting either that person's lifestyle or beliefs. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 5, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 5, 2014 Don't we associate with sinners all the time, even in the church? I enjoyed the article. As I say quite frequently (perhaps so that I don't forget)- we all have something: something to bring to the cross every day. In being truthful, I have less of a hard time in the presence of a gay person than I do with someone I know who holds and shares a lot of negative information on others. I have to pray a LOT for patience because I hate gossip and don't need to know. Because of the devastating nature of sin I am convinced of a couple of things: one, that sin has it's own harmful rewards, and two, that a sinner quite often knows how sinful one is. And that is especially if one is constantly reminded and shamed by others. But I have come to find that fellowshipping with Christ has far happier results for me with potential of change for good and acceptance than I have ever known. I would rather the Biblical non-conformist (aka sinners who haven't yet discovered that) "come see a man who told me everything I ever did", as the woman at the well expressed. Being humiliated might work to bring people to Jesus... I see that as chancy, though. At best the sinner is left to struggle in agony of heart to stumble to God. At worst the shame will cause the shamed one to leave church and God's people, sometimes in hatred and bitterness. But I feel that Christians can make the journey easier by taking one by the hand and coming together to the Cross. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 5, 2014 Moderators Share Posted January 5, 2014 Well, if he has stopped saying "Hate the sin, love the sinner," what does he say now? "Hate the sinner, love the sin?" Or, "Love the sinner and love the sin?" Or...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 5, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 5, 2014 Well, if he has stopped saying "Hate the sin, love the sinner," what does he say now? "Hate the sinner, love the sin?" Or, "Love the sinner and love the sin?" Or...? Apparently you didn't read the article. The answer is there. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Well, if he has stopped saying "Hate the sin, love the sinner," what does he say now? "Hate the sinner, love the sin?" Or, "Love the sinner and love the sin?" Or...? I think its more like..... "I love the human, the human that is not better nor worse than me, that has his/her own hills to climb, battles to fight, will have victories and losses, and I am going to accept that I have my own faults, my own problems and as such I am not going to judge this person for who they are" Something like that. Of course those that can throw stones cause they are "sinless" may have the option of looking at it differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 5, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 5, 2014 Is it difficult to separate a person from his/her beliefs and like that person by virtue of hen being human? I mean, do you always agree with your friends? Then why is it so difficult to like or even love those who hold beliefs that you find a little harder to bear? Is the gayness to the point of covering up and hiding the person that is there? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Not sure if you were actually addressing me or just using the quick reply Gail (as most of what you said agrees with what I am saying) but I will respond to these Is it difficult to separate a person from his/her beliefs and like that person by virtue of hen being human? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 5, 2014 Members Share Posted January 5, 2014 I would counter this question with - Is the religion to the point of covering up and hiding the person that is there? I would say definitely yes! But I would counter with the fact that it is there bad interpretation of what there reading in the Bible. That's why Jesus tells us, and that is all that would claim to be following him, to love the sinner and not the sin. And the sin he's talking about, would be what sin????? According to the Bible all of us are sinners!!! Not just gays, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 I would say definitely yes! But I would counter with the fact that it is there bad interpretation of what there reading in the Bible. That's why Jesus tells us, and that is all that would claim to be following him, to love the sinner and not the sin. And the sin he's talking about, would be what sin????? According to the Bible all of us are sinners!!! Not just gays, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. Great, great, great point PK But as far as counters go it was kinda bad, cause its the same thing I was saying so doesn't actually counter it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 It leaves me humble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 6, 2014 Moderators Share Posted January 6, 2014 You mean, sinner? What difference would that make? I don't consider the sins of others any worse than mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted January 6, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 6, 2014 Quote: Accepting a person does not mean accepting either that person's lifestyle or beliefs. acceptance does not require involvement in sin. and here is the but, but acceptance can very much involve grief, sorrow, pain, and distress, and conflict with one's bias's and prejudices, and fears, and can touch on one's painful history and awaken wounds. if someone is in a wheelchair, and has accepted their disability, they can help others who cannot accept their disability to accept it and grow. i am a sinner and i am growing in acceptance that i am indeed a sinner, and in need of every grace and forgiveness, and renewal, and continual connection to the Spirit to have life. only as i have accepted this can i help others to accept me, and in turn also accept others as they are, without judging, and condemning their person. at the same time i can be aware of the pain and loss sustained when i or anyone shows themselves to others in being less then loving, and controlling, impatient, fearful, and condemning. God help us all to show His wisdom, patience, love, and assurance of divine mercy towards all. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 What makes you righteous, according to Jesus, is to accept you are a sinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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