Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 12, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 12, 2014 As compared to beef? Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 As compared to beef? A family member of ours loved pork,especially bacon. During the later years when his health was failing,his DR,not a SDA by the way,cautioned him to quit eating pork. In his opinion it was not fit for his dog,let alone human consumption. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 12, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 12, 2014 As you can note, I was responding to an observation in context of this whole topic. If pork is "bad meat", my question is in comparison to what, and what makes it bad? What meat is "good meat"? But beef is no better, health wise, and in fact is worse in some respects. The problem is that we as Adventists get upset about bacon vs. no bacon as if that is the only bad choice food wise in dining at the fast food establishments in question. A couple strips of bacon on a BLT or a turkey sandwich compared to a cheeseburger?!?! The context suggests that we should be happy as Adventists that Florida Hospital was successful in getting that Wendy's to leave the bacon off their sandwiches and that allowing Panera to use bacon on theirs was bad. The usual basis on which we make that determination is the health factor. But I would challenge anyone to consider whether a Wendy's Cheeseburger or one of their fried chicken sandwiches is a healthier choice than the typical Panera sandwich with bacon offered by Panera. Significant quality difference in ingredients to begin with, but a menu dominated by hamburgers vs Panera's menu? No comparison. Of the range of healthier choices between the two, again no comparison. Vegetarian options at the two, no comparison. Look up their respective menu nutrition charts. And then lets talk about the vegetarian Adventist fast-food staple, french fries. Panera doesn't have french fries. They do have potato chips which have about half the calories, fat and sodium of Wendy's french fries. And at Panera you can get an apple instead of chips. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 As you can note, I was responding to an observation in context of this whole topic. If pork is "bad meat", my question is in comparison to what, and what makes it bad? What meat is "good meat"? But beef is no better, health wise, and in fact is worse in some respects. The problem is that we as Adventists get upset about bacon vs. no bacon as if that is the only bad choice food wise in dining at the fast food establishments in question. A couple strips of bacon on a BLT or a turkey sandwich compared to a cheeseburger?!?! The context suggests that we should be happy as Adventists that Florida Hospital was successful in getting that Wendy's to leave the bacon off their sandwiches and that allowing Panera to use bacon on theirs was bad. The usual basis on which we make that determination is the health factor. But I would challenge anyone to consider whether a Wendy's Cheeseburger or one of their fried chicken sandwiches is a healthier choice than the typical Panera sandwich with bacon offered by Panera. Significant quality difference in ingredients to begin with, but a menu dominated by hamburgers vs Panera's menu? No comparison. Of the range of healthier choices between the two, again no comparison. Vegetarian options at the two, no comparison. Look up their respective menu nutrition charts. And then lets talk about the vegetarian Adventist fast-food staple, french fries. Panera doesn't have french fries. They do have potato chips which have about half the calories, fat and sodium of Wendy's french fries. And at Panera you can get an apple instead of chips. We were told not to eat certain unclean foods. Specifying clean and unclean. I can find little reason to allow a Wendy's in the first place,just as I can't find any reason to allow pork now. Why not throw all restrictions out? I am sure there are many that would like an alcoholic beverage with their meal. Is that more harmful than a cheeseburger at Wendy's? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 17, 2014 Moderators Share Posted January 17, 2014 I was merely asking for clarification as to what you mean by "paradim shift". Tests may vary, but imo there has been no paradigm shift in what God requires of man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 17, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 17, 2014 Following that to its logical conclusion, all of the things identifiable in Scripture as what God required of man would still be required today. Offered up any animal sacrifices to God lately? There are a whole lot more rules of requirements God put on man in Leviticus and Deuteronomy that are no longer followed. I think perhaps there is a significant misunderstanding of what is meant by a paradigm shift. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 17, 2014 Moderators Share Posted January 17, 2014 On the surface you are right, but underlying all of them, from Adam to our day, is still trust and obedience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 What could be some of the things that might benefit us without being a divine requirement for salvation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windsor Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 As compared to beef? Surely you are aware that beef is clean while pig is unclean. Was Jesus simply being arbitrary when he said stick with animals that chew the cud and have cloven hooves? Quote Remember Adventists Online? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallmark Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 If they use chemotherapy and other drugs to "treat" patients, then the bacon thing doesn't surprise me. And you're right, Olger- abortions on demand. Sad. I'll only go there when injured. If I get sick, I'll use natural healing. Just my $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 18, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 18, 2014 Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore As compared to beef? Surely you are aware that beef is clean while pig is unclean. Was Jesus simply being arbitrary when he said stick with animals that chew the cud and have cloven hooves? Uhhhh, yeah... Have you been following the conversation very closely? You seem to have missed the point. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enabled Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Ham-burger anyone? There are a lot of people eating unclean food already in willful ignorance. Contains: pork,beef,waste trimmings,and fat, all in a generous serving of blood. Only the beef flesh passes the original council of scripture. The priests of old didn't like the sodden meat either, yet if we cooked it today as they were council-ed to back then probably; neither would we. Happy Sabbath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 18, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 18, 2014 Ham-burger anyone? There are a lot of people eating unclean food already in willful ignorance.Contains: pork,beef,waste trimmings,and fat, all in a generous serving of blood. Only the beef flesh passes the original council of scripture. The priests of old didn't like the sodden meat either, yet if we cooked it today as they were council-ed to back then probably; neither would we. Happy Sabbath. Hamburgers do not contain pork. They are made from ground beef. While burgers can be made from most any ground meat, any restaurant or store would have to identify if it was made from or included other meat. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enabled Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 The following link may prove interesting to the health conscious reader. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/20...ins-pink-slime/ As you can see I am in Canada. Things seem to be different in the USA. A friend of mine worked for a large chain here in Canada years ago and he pointed out to me that pork trimmings were often tossed in with the beef burger. We did a simple test at his suggestion and placed an all beef patty (labeled) on the stove to cook and noted the odors and the fat in the pan. We did the same with an unlabeled hamburger patty and did the same. He was right the fat content was immediately noticeable as was a distinctly different odor. We were not them Adventists or even Christian but quit buying anything that didn't say all beef on it after we heard the health message, shortly after that we gave up all meat. Also note all beef labeled burger in Canada at that time was much more expensive than the generic hamburger. Not sure how it is now as we haven't looked as we quit eating meat over 20 years ago. Thanks Tom for clarifying that point, still leaves the blood and fat on the table though. For what it's worth Enabled to choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 19, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 19, 2014 Yes, that was part of my point of comparison. The fat content in hamburgers is significant. A quarter pound cheeseburger has at least 30 mg of fat. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 20, 2014 Members Share Posted January 20, 2014 That's because of the part of the cow/cattle that is being used for the hamburger. And that also goes for hotdogs. They use the fattest meat that is discarded from the other parts of the cow/cattle, than put through the grinder to make the hamburger and also the hotdogs. Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 20, 2014 Members Share Posted January 20, 2014 Here's an interesting wikipedia about how pork is used and what parts of the pig are used for the different products. Here's the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 20, 2014 Members Share Posted January 20, 2014 Here's a link on Beef http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 20, 2014 Members Share Posted January 20, 2014 Here's a link on Kosher meat, and pay particular attention to the paragraph entitled: Kosher slaughter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashrut Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted January 20, 2014 Moderators Share Posted January 20, 2014 Wikipedia: Quote: At $499, the world's largest hamburger commercially available tips the scales at 185.8 pounds (84.3 kg) and is on the menu at Mallie's Sports Grill & Bar in Southgate, Michigan. It is called the "Absolutely Ridiculous Burger", which takes about 12 hours to prepare. It was cooked and adjudicated on May 30, 2009.[49] Try that one on for size. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 20, 2014 Members Share Posted January 20, 2014 Wikipedia: Quote: At $499, the world's largest hamburger commercially available tips the scales at 185.8 pounds (84.3 kg) and is on the menu at Mallie's Sports Grill & Bar in Southgate, Michigan. It is called the "Absolutely Ridiculous Burger", which takes about 12 hours to prepare. It was cooked and adjudicated on May 30, 2009.[49] Try that one on for size. LOL good one Gregory. It takes 12 hours to prepare! I wonder how long to eat? LOL Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onebeecee Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 why is it so hard to find what the SDA church invests in? Is there not full disclosure? Quote Psalms19:12-14 Lord my saviour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaroldT Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Florida Hospital ends bacon ban with opening of Panera Breadquote] Sounds like more 'giving in'. or ow much more do we compromise on to be accepted? Don't anyone read SOP any more? Quote HaroldT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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