Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 18, 2014 Members Share Posted February 18, 2014 I found a 55-yr-old article by T.E. Unruh, Pennsylvania Conference President, on the attitudes of active church members to those who no longer attend church. The article made me sad. Herewith is a brief paraphrase: Are the missing are not missed? We are a busy people. We live and labor under tremendous pressures. Our interests are many and varied. Our programs are numerous and multiplying. Could it be that the church moves forward relentlessly, bent on finishing the work in search of the spiritually unborn, while the spiritually weak, the discouraged, the worldly, the burdened, the indifferent, stand in the shadows and watch the procession from the sidelines unnoticed, just waiting for a friendly hand and invitation? But we are too busy to halt, too preoccupied with the work of God to really miss the missing. Is it possible that we may grow indifferent to the missing, and eventually forget them? Any concern we *do* show is largely statistical. We "miss" the 17%, or 32%, or 54%, but we do not miss John Jones and Mary Smith and little Tommy Brown. One of the major tragedies of this late hour is the fact that in the full knowledge of our missing and our losses, the church continues quite unalarmed and complacent. paraphrased from "Missing the 'Missing': An Appeal to Leadership," by T.E. Unruh, President, East Pennsylvania Conference, printed in Ministry Magazine, May 1958. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 .......and has it changed in 55 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 18, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 18, 2014 unfortunately, no :( Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I have mentioned this before, but after I received the boot, the only SDA's that ever made contact with me were my parents (and a close family friend that offered me a job - but never anything about religion). Until I came to this board I had not knowingly talked to an SDA in close to 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted February 18, 2014 Administrators Share Posted February 18, 2014 I have mentioned this before, but after I received the boot, the only SDA's that ever made contact with me were my parents (and a close family friend that offered me a job - but never anything about religion). Until I came to this board I had not knowingly talked to an SDA in close to 20 years. And...? :) Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I'm just saying that the article is right. Once "out of the fold" very little if any contact is made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 19, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 19, 2014 OTOH, it's interesting when I left the church back in the mid 80's, I don't think I would have been receptive to any "pastoral visits" and I *definitely* would not have accepted an invitation to come back to church... I don't think I would have been rude (or maybe I *would* have been), but I'm sure I'd have made it crystal clear for SDA's/Christians to get out of my face. I wanted absolutely NOTHING to do with any of them. So... while folks *want* to invite or visit people who have left church, the reality is, who wants to meet up with cynicism and rather consistent rebuffs when approaching someone who's left the church. I think it would take someone rather thick-skinned to do that. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I don't know what the outcome would have been if someone had contacted me... I did consider myself an SDA -albeit a bad one- for quite a while after. So I may have come back or may not have, it didn't happen so I can't be sure. While I am happy with the way my spirituality has gone as a result, what bothered me and I guess still does, is that it felt a lot like I just ceased to exist as a person to the local congregation the minute I quit going to church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yes, I would agree. A group of us once went to the pastor of our church to ask what we could do about reaching out to those that were leaving the church or had left. The answer....'nothing you can do, they have made their choice and they know what is right'. We were flabbergasted, thankfully the associate pastor did not agree. We didn't get any thing going at that time but later did start out on our own for an outreach to the divorced with various seminars, guest speakers, work shops and follow ups. I was among the divorced at that time and there were many others in the same situation, so it was a very successful outreach with singles and marrieds helping out. In order to reach out to those leaving or not attending I would suggest those that have an interest in those persons, find others of like mind and do something, not waiting for the 'church blessing'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 19, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 19, 2014 and it would make a big difference if someone who actually *knew* you was the one who would make contact... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 and it would make a big difference if someone who actually *knew* you was the one who would make contact... Jesus and His Father didn't break up Their relationship with One Another and the whole world turned them down. And John the Baptist didn't turn on the Divine Family, even losing his head in the interim. Everyone of the initial 12 disciples lost their lives and when/after being given assurance of Divine approbation, continued faithful till they couldn't control the church misfits. Will it be any different for those who remain faithful to Christ in following His wishes for them just prior to His coming? When a person finds the portion of the body of Christ that acts according to the perfect will of God, they won't stay with them either because they would fail to live up to that perfect behavior and their imperfect conduct wouldn't allow their pride to abide as less than the best. Staying with Christs' body calls for a good deal more loyalty than many are willing to give, and the more so as time draws us closer to Jesus' return. God/Jesus cares! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 No disrespect meant...but....what are you trying to say?? Not sure what you are saying relates to what has been said...could be wrong...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 19, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 19, 2014 Here's the link to the full article from 1958. It's in pdf format: http://www.andrews.edu/library/car/cardigital/Periodicals/Ministry_Magazine/1958/1958_05.pdf It's not long, and well worth the full read. It's the first article... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted February 19, 2014 Administrators Share Posted February 19, 2014 it is about a lack of love. God is the source of that love. so it may be about a lack of connection to that source. i know when i was on the outside no efforts were made and when i rallied to try i was met it a summary, "we are praying for you." i got some warmth when i rattled the door, but no personal visits from anyone that knew me. but i had strangers visit or happen by who were Christian and sda and it was very providential. and i was was eventually reached out to, and i did seek out these individuals who seemed to be God lead, and not human only lead. my brother was painfully disfellow-shipped (wow long word), and eventually became an sda minster, and the minister who did it did personally apologize. people are poorly equipped to act appropriately towards those struggling with their membership without genuine divine love. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierrepaul Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 When I left the church I certainly did not want any visits from church members, especially if such visits were prompted out of some sense of official duty, with the proposed visitor holding some church office such as pastor or elder. I would have welcomed the visits of friends. I also remember a family who had stopped attending the SdA church. The elder of course called to visit and the family in question responded that they would be happy to meet with the elder in his capacity as a friend of many years, but they had no interest in a "pastoral" visit. Now after I had stopped attending church regularly, I did attend one sabbath. A retired pastor confronted me asking me why I did not attend church anymore. I confided in him that I no longer believed in God. About a year later I again came to church and the same retired pastor confronted me and asked me if I still didn't believe in God. When I told him I was a non-believer he told me I had to resign my membership in the church, failing which he'd move for my disfellowship at the church business meeting to be held the following week. Apparently he felt unbound by any sense of clergyman-parishioner confidentiality. In any event, the motion for my disfellowship was never brought to the floor, the retired pastor died of a heart attack 3 days after I last spoke with him. The greatest service the SdA church did me was simply continuing to exist and operate in my absence. Friends continued to be friends, and never pushed any religion on me. When I returned I was welcomed as if I never left, even though for 2 years I sat in the back, speaking with no one. I was given my "space" and never pressured to join the gang (though always invited). Then when I was good and ready to begin participating, I was quietly welcomed without question. This approach worked for me and my personality. I don't like to be the centre of attention; I like to mind my own business. I enjoy friends, but not in my home. My home is my personal refuge and I don't like my personal space invaded. For an individual with a more extroverted or gregarious personality, such a "we'll let you mind your own business" approach may have been interpreted as uncaring rather than respectful. Quote God never said "Thou shalt not think". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I also think some in leadership may not know 'how', their training is in 'bringing in' not looking for 'lost sheep'. In my/our case we were looking for ideas from leadership on how to reach out to the person/s leaving whom we knew personally. After being rebuffed on that is when we came up with our own plans, even though we went into a different direction. The parable of the lost sheep has been preached about quite often, but I wonder if pastors/membership/leaders have really personalized it. It is not just about Christ seeking, but an example for everyone and that has not been emphasized, in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted February 19, 2014 Members Share Posted February 19, 2014 I can remember back a few years, we had a couple, that we were friends with even. Both of them had actually just returned to church, and than they were building themselves a new house and before it got finished they were getting a divorce. We tried visiting with each of them. They just left the church and didn't want to see anyone anymore. We didn't even visit them with the intention of talking them into going back to each other. All we did was listen to them, after a while we could tell they had no intention of getting back together or going to church anymore. So eventually there was no more communication. From what I could tell, they wanted nothing to do with us or the church! Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 No disrespect meant...but....what are you trying to say?? Not sure what you are saying relates to what has been said...could be wrong...... Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoarrge Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I stopped attending church because I got tired. I needed a better job and some real friends, I asked God for help, i tried to reach out, and found nothing. After a few years it ended up being the only subject of my prayers and it didn't matter. I don't know that it was the particular fault of any church members, except that if anyone owned a business, nobody bothered to mention it. Nor was much attention given to young adults who weren't college students. I got tired of it, maybe for selfish reasons but the bottom line was that I wasn't being spiritually replenished and I didn't want to inflict my bad attitude on everyone. Quote To be an agent of creation is to serve the Creator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 19, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 19, 2014 I stopped attending church because I got tired. I needed a better job and some real friends, I asked God for help, i tried to reach out, and found nothing. After a few years it ended up being the only subject of my prayers and it didn't matter. I don't know that it was the particular fault of any church members, except that if anyone owned a business, nobody bothered to mention it. Nor was much attention given to young adults who weren't college students. I got tired of it, maybe for selfish reasons but the bottom line was that I wasn't being spiritually replenished and I didn't want to inflict my bad attitude on everyone. **nods** ... not everyone who leaves the church does so because they're "offended" - can be for a myriad of reasons.. maybe that should be one of the first things asked, "was there a particular reason for not attending church anymore?" (and so asked, without any condemnation or finger-pointing) Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I can remember back a few years, we had a couple, that we were friends with even. Both of them had actually just returned to church, and than they were building themselves a new house and before it got finished they were getting a divorce. We tried visiting with each of them. They just left the church and didn't want to see anyone anymore. We didn't even visit them with the intention of talking them into going back to each other. All we did was listen to them, after a while we could tell they had no intention of getting back together or going to church anymore. So eventually there was no more communication. From what I could tell, they wanted nothing to do with us or the church! I would guess the added messiness of a divorce contributed to the situation. A lot of times when a couple ends their marriage, sadly a number of friendships seem to follow the same path. But you tried, and you did it with the intention of simply maintaining a relationship, and you should feel good about that PK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 **nods** ... not everyone who leaves the church does so because they're "offended" - can be for a myriad of reasons.. maybe that should be one of the first things asked, "was there a particular reason for not attending church anymore?" (and so asked, without any condemnation or finger-pointing) Agreed, but to expand on that, I think the first thing should be to let a person know that you value them as a friend regardless of their religious outlook. IMO its pretty shallow to decide a friendship based on the person sharing your church with you or not. Then if the chance arises, indeed inquire as to why they quit attending your church or religious organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Yes, as a friend! Leave religion or church out of it. For those you might casualy know just give them a call and say you hadn't seen them in a while and just wanted to know how they were doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 but make sure the visit is out of friendship, and for no other reason... that was one of the points in that article. This might sound harsh, but I don't think visiting someone only because of "concern for his/her soul" is a good reason. Unless one is a REALLY good actor, people can generally see right through that veneer and know that the true motive doesn't lie in friendship or concern for him/her as a person, but rather as a "soul" to be saved. That type of thought and attitude goes right along with statistics and percentages -- not with considering people as *individuals* with needs and feelings and issues.. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.