the missing are not missed...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

nearly every time I read new postings in this thread it makes me sad to see that things really *haven't* changed from 56 years ago..

the "missing" still aren't being "missed"

I haven't attended church in nearly a year. As with others who've posted here, no one from the church has asked me why, by email, phone call, or in person. It's the same as the 15 or so years when I was a witch.... never heard from anyone (not that they'd have been welcomed).

All it does is confirm in my mind that I'm not important or valued as a church member.

What's really ironic is that a number of my long-time personal SDA friends are hotshots in "reconnecting" ministries.

The only friend who connected with me is a former SDA minister, but now has his own ministry. Kinda makes me think, "here's the man who walks his talk....maybe *his* ministry has more going for it that the formal SDA church." (note: I've not been to his church, so am not able to give an opinion of it.)

[Gail]

This website was responsible for my renewed interest in spiritual things. Here I can express my opinions, usually after careful deliberation, unlike in every SDA Sabbath School I've attended where my ideas no longer coincide with SDA doctrines. I no longer attend church for several reasons, but one is that I do not care to watch dvd sermons. Haven’t seen a pastor for several years except for my father-in-laws memorial service a few weeks ago.

That's so cool, Aliensanctuary!

I don't know why it is that the missing are too often not missed. I imagine there are a few reasons, like fear of rejection from bitterness or a decline in that common interest.

But I am glad you are here :)

[Gail]

nearly every time I read new postings in this thread it makes me sad to see that things really *haven't* changed from 56 years ago..

the "missing" still aren't being "missed"

I haven't attended church in nearly a year. As with others who've posted here, no one from the church has asked me why, by email, phone call, or in person. It's the same as the 15 or so years when I was a witch.... never heard from anyone (not that they'd have been welcomed).

All it does is confirm in my mind that I'm not important or valued as a church member.

What's really ironic is that a number of my long-time personal SDA friends are hotshots in "reconnecting" ministries.

The only friend who connected with me is a former SDA minister, but now has his own ministry. Kinda makes me think, "here's the man who walks his talk....maybe *his* ministry has more going for it that the formal SDA church." (note: I've not been to his church, so am not able to give an opinion of it.)

I will say the same to you as to Aliensanctuary, that I am happy that you are here. You bring life to the board and much great food for thought :)

[Gail]

We had a fellow come into the store yesterday who left the church long ago, like 40 years ago. I didn't get a chance to speak to him other than bring a load of activated charcoal in from the warehouse to fetch him a jar.

After he left my colleague gave me the lowdown on who he was. She had known him during his church years but I hadn't. He considers himself an atheist now, evolutionist and all that. And to me, that is fine. I have an easier time with those who are honest about where they are.

But perhaps we as church members forget that when a person leaves the church that they still have a spirituality, a soul. And sometimes that journey travels in a few directions before settling down for good. I am glad that my coworker chatted him up and I hope that he comes back to the store (to buy a friend a jar of charcoal, perhaps?) even though he no longer believes there is a God, there is a reason he came to our store. I like to think it was a spiritual reason.

[phkrause]

Gail that reminds me of an article in the AR, within the past few years, a man happened to go to an ABC in Washington state I believe? He hadn't been to church in about 40 some years, he found a book by Clifford Goldstein. It brought him back to the church. I also remember that, if I'm correct, he was a pastor at one time?

[JoeMo]

At our church, it is rare that there is any organized effort to contact those who quit coming for 3 reasons:

1. Frequently, those who leave are called by God to bring His Spirit to other congregations; or to start ministries of their own. They frequently ask the church's blessing before they leave; and receive it. Members still within our congregation sometimes support the departed brother/sister in their new ministry. Many times, these new ministries are associated with another "member" of a loose network of non-denominational churches across the country in which we actively participate.

2. Some members leave because of some offense they feel was directed towards them by another church member (sometimes the pastor). After apologies are made, we have consciously chosen to let the departed people make the first move to return to our congregation. Experience has shown us that any overt attempts to bring them back to the fold frequently is perceived as putting them on a guilt trip; "pretending" to love them back into the church.

3. Some people don't like our message or the way it is presented. We are simply not blessing them in the way which they are accustomed to being blessed. Admittedly, our church is a magnet for misfits - we accept any and all regardless of life style or past history. We also have a free-form service rather than following a consistent proscribed liturgy. Some are not comfortable with one or both of those things. That's OK; different people have different spiritual needs. If we are not blessing them, they need to go somewhere where they can be blessed; and go with our blessing.

[CoAspen]

Hmmmm...interesting comments.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I wonder why "church" was so important to the pioneers... (and I'm NOT specifically talking about the "Adventist Pioneers")...

my guess is that a LOT of it had to do with being around others of a like mind... there was trust that if your neighbor (and fellow church member) needed help, everyone pitched in. If someone was ill, food was brought for the family. Barn-raising, quilting parties, etc were all neighborly acts. And it was the church members and pastor who were the essence of the community. Next to a sheriff, a pastor was the most authoritative person in a town, even more so than a mayor.

Church was a thriving "community" back then. Nowadays, it's more like a nursing home...

[Aliensanctuary]

In the past I have suffered from "club mindset" or "club mentality", meaning, my goal was supposed to be to get people to come to church, which I was never very good at because I wasn't much of a talker. Nowadays, I'm not so reticent to go up to someone and start talking, but getting someone to join a church is not my goal.

Quote:

...if your neighbor (and fellow church member) needed help, everyone pitched in. If someone was ill, food was brought for the family...

Jesus spent most of his life helping people, and that, more than anything else, opened their hearts to his teaching. Likewise, by removing some of the personal distractions in our lives and instead focusing on others, we might be surprised at the doors that may open up for us.

A selfless life will speak far more than a library of religious books or a lifetime of sermons. If I were the boss of the SDA church, I would do my best to trashcan all of the doctrines and the stuffy, dress-up meetings, and turn it into a Random Acts of Kindness/Pay it Forward type of service organization. There would be no more expensive church buildings and pews and organs, only hall rentals or outdoor or in-home gatherings and lawn chairs.

Religious organizations tend to constipate the minds of their members by brainwashing them with their particular doctrines. If an organization used the teachings of Christ as its guide, and its main goal was to find ways to do something unexpectedly nice for the unsuspecting, I would join that organization in a heartbeat. Yes, I could go for lawn-chair-church and the church-in-the-woods or church-in-the-backyard-or-living room as long as there were no preachers, sermonizing, and pulpit-smashing, only discussion of successes and planning for more random acts of kindness.

The scriptures teach us that we are to be servants, servants of YHVH, and servants to mankind. Everything not directed towards that goal will be deleted from our memories and permanently erased from the record of human life. All of our selfless acts will be remembered forever, and rewarded in ways we cannot yet know.

Some specifics?

With far less overhead due to no paid preachers or church organization overhead or church-building payments, that money could be directed to assembling food baskets or assistance with utilities, medical bills, car repairs, etc. to those identified as needy. I suppose many elderly would fall into that category. One could go to nursing homes to make sure specific residents have some regular one-on-one attention---clean faces, nice clothing, exercise, outdoor activities, reading aloud, etc.

It's really up to us to demonstrate to our Creator that we are worthy servants. There's not much reward for us if we spend our time and money only on ourselves. Then we wouldn't have to go through the process of hand-wringing about declining membership and church budget shortfalls.

Quote:

Church was a thriving "community" back then. Nowadays, it's more like a nursing home...

The small churches I last attended were on life-support. When another elderly member passed away, it left yet another empty spot in the pews.

[Aliensanctuary]

Anyway, all that aside, I suppose if someone is concerned about missing church members, they should take the responsibility upon themselves to locate them and find out why they no longer attend services rather than leave it to someone else.

It's not like those who do not attend religious services are any farther from the LORD than those warming up their favorite pew are, because religions tend to bring out the superficial in us. We dress up in our Sunday best and look and talk and pray like such wonderful, God-fearing Christians, but at home or at work, we may behave in a far different way toward others. That's the big turn-off of organized religion for many. They tend to see only the hypocritical practices and charades of various church attendees.

That's why I think the SDA denomination needs to re-think its mission, not as increasing membership and number of pews, and therefore its income and infrastructure, but to encourage and train its members to seek out the elderly, poor, needy, and hurting, and try to find solutions to meet people's needs. This would involve self-sacrifice of time and money, but that's exactly the mission that Christ has assigned his followers.

Something I have seen lately are the homeless living in tents on hillsides near town or near the interstate highway. That might not work in sub-zero temperatures, but it's at least a temporary home. Jesus ministered to the homeless, no matter the reason that they ended up that way, so I suppose his followers should be doing that also. The elderly poor need to be looked after, too. I'm sure most would appreciate some companionship and genuine friendship and a little help with the stuff of their lives.

[debbym]

Anyway, all that aside, I suppose if someone is concerned about missing church members, they should take the responsibility upon themselves to locate them and find out why they no longer attend services rather than leave it to someone else.

It's not like those who do not attend religious services are any farther from the LORD than those warming up their favorite pew are, because religions tend to bring out the superficial in us. We dress up in our Sunday best and look and talk and pray like such wonderful, God-fearing Christians, but at home or at work, we may behave in a far different way toward others. That's the big turn-off of organized religion for many. They tend to see only the hypocritical practices and charades of various church attendees.

i really appreciate this post. God is near to all, to lift up and bless and strengthen. he wants us to represent him and make that nearness more effective, for us to be his heart, his hands, and his ear and eyes.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

If you want to hear about God's love, mercy, and forgiveness, come to our church in Denver. It's all about acceptance and community.

No body of believers is without its' detractors and critics dwelling among them.

"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."Matthew 13:30 KJV

The best place to find the love one needs to stay within the parameters of the love of Christ is between the pages of the Holy Word, where one can find Him Who is the same today, yesterday, and forever. If we leave the body of believers as a result of someone elses' behavior, we leave the the place where God is focusing His greatest effort to affect our salvation.

"Keep me as the apple of Your eye; Hide me under the shadow of Your wings,"Psalm 17:8 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[debbym]

If you want to hear about God's love, mercy, and forgiveness, come to our church in Denver. It's all about acceptance and community.

interestingly acceptance and community are elements for the insiders in businesses, civic organizations, and cults. it makes for success.

this unity can create a special bond that those coming in feel outside of.

When it is the work of the Holy Spirit who is rather inviting, this bond offers love, and support of the alienated, weakest and most disenfranchised.

[Aliensanctuary]

Recall in the book of Acts of the Apostles how the disciples held everything in common and fed those who couldn't support themselves. To me, that points to the Kingdom of YHVH where its members chosen from the Earth become members of communes or collectives. Tools and equipment and land are all shared, and from their tithe those living in the city can be fed also.

Unless we do our best to suppress Self, we have nothing to share with the world, except maybe membership in a dress-up club, which isn't for everyone.

[joeb]

it is about a lack of love.

God is the source of that love.

so it may be about a lack of connection to that source.

i know when i was on the outside no efforts were made and when i rallied to try i was met it a summary, "we are praying for you."

i got some warmth when i rattled the door, but no personal visits from anyone that knew me. but i had strangers visit or happen by who were Christian and sda and it was very providential. and i was was eventually reached out to, and i did seek out these individuals who seemed to be God lead, and not human only lead.

my brother was painfully disfellow-shipped (wow long word), and eventually became an sda minster, and the minister who did it did personally apologize.

people are poorly equipped to act appropriately towards those struggling with their membership without genuine divine love.

As usual you hit the nail on the head, debbym. The lack of the love of God in the heart causes both the lack of interest in others and the need to walk away from a discussion with someone who disagrees with you with hurt feelings because the disagreement is taken as a personal dislike rather than just what it is, a difference in ideas. The lack of a vital relationship with God always causes selfishness and fragile egos.

It's funny, ironic really, that I can engage in face-to-face discussions of theology with a local non-SDA minister, who thinks all SDA's are lost causes because of their legalism, with no acrimony and zero hurt feelings on either side. Something I cannot do on this site with professed SDAs.

What's even more ironic is that he has stated that he understands that I'm not a legalist while I'm condemned here as being one who is out to hurt others.

It was nice to read a post of yours once again.