Live on the Internet.

[Gregory Matthews]

http://new.livestream.com/bouldersdachur...mp;medium=email

Today, I conducted a Sabbath School Class live and over the Internet.

It was not based upon the Study Guide. It was based upon the 7th chapter of John.

Click on the above if you would like to see it.

It might give you some ideas for your congregation.

A couple of weeks ago we had a visitor from a Northern European country who came to our church because she had seen our services on the Internet.

NOTE: In order to view, you will have to give your e-mail address.

[Gregory Matthews]

I guess that if you have a Facebook account you can sign in that way and do not have to give any other information.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I'd rather just use an alternate email account. If one logs in with Facebook, they get a WHOLE lot of information:

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Fascinating class...

It was interesting when you brought up the subject of Mary as having major influence in the religious instruction of Jesus. I was thinking that was a great way to reach Catholics who hold Mary in such high regard. But then one of the members, for that very reason, said she didn't think it was Mary who had instructed Jesus, but, rather, He had been given the information from the Holy Spirit. I'm of the opinion that it *was* Mary who taught Jesus.

Then another stated he thought Jesus had known all along what His mission was. And you (rightly, I thought) pointed out that if Jesus had had memories of being the Son of God in heaven prior to His incarnation on earth, He would hardly have been a true representative to die for the human race.

And a 3rd point I thought was interesting was the subject of Jesus' brothers and the idea that younger brothers would never have admonished or instructed Jesus what to do, as that would not have been culturally acceptable. Fascinating. I never had considered that Joseph might have been a widower with children when he married Mary.

Love this type of study...

[JoeMo]

I have neither a FaceBook nor a Livestream account. I couldn't access it. I'm too paranoid about privacy and surveillance . I'm amazed that I do CA and LinkedIn. I would have liked to see it. Gregory's posts are always interesting and instructive. Plus, he's a local boy.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

let me see if I can embed the video:

[Gregory Matthews]

Thank you for posting the video here.

You are an expert.

[Smurf]

Joseph might have been a widower with children when he married Mary.

I have heard this from a few SDA sites I have wrote to the last few months (amazing facts, amazing discovery) and have found no Biblical support at all, but plenty of RCC support....

Has this always been a SDA view?

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Joseph might have been a widower with children when he married Mary.

I have heard this from a few SDA sites I have wrote to the last few months (amazing facts, amazing discovery) and have found no Biblical support at all, but plenty of RCC support....

Has this always been a SDA view?

1) The Bible, such as in John 7:3, may support the idea that Christ had brothers. Although some would argue with this.

2) If it does support the idea that Christ had brothers, it really does not tell us whether they were sons of Joseph and half-brothers of Jesus, or whether they were younger brothers born to Mary.

3) An understanding of that culture would clearly suggest that younger brothers of Christ, would not speak to Jesus as the Bible reports them doing.

4) Non Biblical documents, such as some of the Greek Papyri suggest that Joseph has sons, and probably daughters, at the time he married Mary.

5) While the Roman Catholic Church may support the idea that Joseph had children at the time he married Jesus, I hope that one would not suggest that the basis for this idea lies in the teachings of the RC Church.

6)The view that Joseph had children at the time he married Mary can be traced back for many years in the SDA Church. Certainly it has been suggested by SDAs for many years. However, this view is not considered an important teaching. Members are not required to believe it. In a sense, while many members probably do believe it, I cannot say that it is a SDA view. It simply does not have to be believed by its members.

7) Frankly, at this time in the life of the SDA Denomination, probably a majority of the members have never thought about it and therefore neither accept it or reject it.

[JoeMo]

Thanks Pam, It's always nice to "meet" someone from CA for real.

Liked your message, Gregory! If you're ever speaking (or just attending) on the south side of town (like at Denver South or Living Stone), let me know - I'll be there!

I'm speaking at Living Stone (a church plant that meets at Comedy Club off I-25 and Bellview) on June 7. Funny place to go to church, huh?

[Gregory Matthews]

I am speaking at the main service on May 24, in the Longmont, Colorado Church.

That is not the church that I normally attend. But, I am speaking there.

My expected sermon title: Welcome Home, Maybe?

Come on out, any of you. The congregation would welcome you. They have a potluck every Sabbath.

This is their address:

1712 Mountain View Ave, Longmont, CO 80501

(303) 776-6701

[Tom Wetmore]

5) While the Roman Catholic Church may support the idea that Joseph had children at the time he married Jesus, I hope that one would not suggest that the basis for this idea lies in the teachings of the RC Church.

While there may be fresh and more recent consideration of this idea, this is a very long standing traditional teaching of the RC Church. But I wouldn't be too worried about the association or that it is perhaps the real origin or basis of the idea. Pretty much of all Protestantism needs to get over trying to be in denial that the roots of so many traditions and extra-Biblical teachings do have their basis in the RC Church. It is just a fact of history.

But realistically recognizing this does help to understand it and so many other traditional positions that have their root in centuries old traditions of the Church. Sometimes we can then recognize that such ideas at their origin may have developed in support of other ideas that we would be less enthusiastic to support. Regardless, I have found that these long term traditional interpretations persist and are very hard for people to change, even in face of overwhelming new evidence to the contrary.

My understanding of the RC idea of Joseph having been a widow with children when he married Mary was really in support of the RC teaching about Mary, more specifically the perpetual virginity of Mary, dating back to the fourth or maybe even the second century. Their teaching is that Mary remained pure, a virgin her whole life. Consequently, any referenced brothers and sisters of Jesus couldn't be Mary's children. The only alternative then had to be that they were Joseph's from a prior marriage. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_virginity_of_Mary

[Johann]

My Bible has an introduction to each book. It indicates that both the Epistle of James and of Jude were written by two of the brothers of Jesus.

References are given to Gal. 2:9 and 1 Cor. 15:7.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

My Bible has an introduction to each book. It indicates that both the Epistle of James and of Jude were written by two of the brothers of Jesus.

The SDA Bible Commentary gives good information on this issue. [see 7SDABC 497-500]

In short it sums it up:

Quote:

There is insufficient evidence in the epistle of James to warrant any definite conclusion as to the identity of its author. . . .In conclusion, it may be said that the authorship of James remains an unsettled question. Probably the author was one of the three principal men by the name of James mentioned elsewhere in the NT.

As to Jude: The SDABC suggests that the author of Jude was the brother of the author of James, whoever it was that wrote James. See: 7SDABC page 701.

[Johann]

Quote:

Mark 6:1-6

New International Version (NIV)

A Prophet Without Honor(A)

6 Jesus left there and went to his hometown,( accompanied by his disciples. 2 When the Sabbath came,© he began to teach in the synagogue,(D) and many who heard him were amazed.(E)

“Where did this man get these things?” they asked. “What’s this wisdom that has been given him? What are these remarkable miracles he is performing? 3 Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph,[a] Judas and Simon?(F) Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.(G)

4 Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.”(H) 5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on(I) a few sick people and heal them. 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith.

At least we know that Jesus had brothers by the name of James and Judas.

[Johann]

It was a nice study, Gregory. Sabbath I will be having both a lesson study and a sermon, but not in English. Tomorrow we are sailing by ferry to the Westmann Islands south of Iceland where we have a church.